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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
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Old
03-02-2013, 12:27 AM
  #176
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
let me get this strait..

if someone has a different view from yours bp74, u put them on ignore?

is that correct? if so why are u on a discussion board?
no, thats not correct. not at all.

its really very simple:

i am not gonna be drawn into the "considering what player X is being paid, that was a bad hockey play / goal against / bap pass / bad penalty" debate.

those who give me a hard time about that, or tell me that i'm "wrong" to evaluate a player or play based SOLELY on what happens on the ice [and not relevant to a players contract] get put on ignore.

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03-02-2013, 12:32 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Then you need to put essentially everyone on your ignore list, because you're the only one who lives in the alternate reality that cap hit and/or actual salary paid shouldn't alter your expectations of a player.
i never said "salary paid shouldn't alter your expectations of a player"

i'm saying with me, it DOESN'T

you think i'm the only person who doesn't care about cap hit ??
yea, right. whatever. but why is that any concern of yours?

the only people who get put on ignore, are those who give me a hard time about me just wanting to discuss on ice performance.

and, why is that any concern of yours, either ?


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-02-2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Old
03-02-2013, 12:37 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Bernie, realize everyone else is also discussing "only on-ice performance" (by your definition), it's just that their notions of good and bad are different. But the subject matter is the same.
no, many are not. once they mention "considering what he's being paid ...."
it becomes about MORE than what happened on the ice [by definition, the added aspect of a contract]

its ok that people want to do that. i don't mind. but theres no need to give me a hard time, or tell me that i "should" take into account a players contract, if i elect not to.

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03-02-2013, 12:55 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i never said "salary paid shouldn't alter your expectations of a player"

i'm saying with me, it DOESN'T

you think i'm the only person who doesn't care about cap hit ??
yea, right. whatever. but why is that any concern of yours?

the only people who get put on ignore, are those who give me a hard time about me just wanting to discuss on ice performance.

and, why is that any concern of yours, either ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
no, many are not. once they mention "considering what he's being paid ...."
it becomes about MORE than what happened on the ice [by definition, the added aspect of a contract]

its ok that people want to do that. i don't mind. but theres no need to give me a hard time, or tell me that i "should" take into account a players contract, if i elect not to.
Does this type of thinking apply (cap hit/salary does not matter) apply to everyone's daily job or is it only limited to those in professional sports? If it's the latter, what makes them different that their salary shouldn't be a part of the expectations for that player?

I understand we'll never agree on this. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

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03-02-2013, 01:20 AM
  #180
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Does this type of thinking apply (cap hit/salary does not matter) apply to everyone's daily job or is it only limited to those in professional sports?
i don't know. i'm not sure there are discussion forums about employees of Walmart or Don Pablos or Verizon. Nobody cares about those people compared to sports teams.

If there are, I wouldn't join them.

as for ME, on pro sports forums, considering that the ONLY "expectations based on dollars paid" that matters is Homer's & he doesn't share them [ex: a left winger making $2 mil, should score 40 goals], you are all inventing your own [and that's ok, of course], but it is already a good enough debate as to what is a good / bad game, or goal against as it is [for me].

i just have no interest in the added, & very subjective, 'contractual expectations' aspect.

no biggie, it's just not for me.

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03-02-2013, 01:53 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
as for ME, on pro sports forums, considering that the ONLY "expectations based on dollars paid" that matters is Homer's & he doesn't share them [ex: a left winger making $2 mil, should score 40 goals], you are all inventing your own [and that's ok, of course], but it is already a good enough debate as to what is a good / bad game, or goal against as it is [for me].
Are Homer's expectations important to you then or not?

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03-02-2013, 02:28 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i don't know. i'm not sure there are discussion forums about employees of Walmart or Don Pablos or Verizon. Nobody cares about those people compared to sports teams.
Walmart employees are underpaid.

Verizon employees are overpaid.

Don Pablos employees are frustrating. Last year, I thought they were overpaid based on the quality of service I received. Then early this year, they were really solid and I thought they were fairly paid, but in recent weeks the quality of the service has really slipped. I'm thinking that my server might've had to pick up a few too many extra shifts throughout the week, making her tired / inattentive; I also noticed she was the only server working that night, so she had nobody to back her up and she was dealing with a massive number of tables.

Even still though, the level of service I received was unacceptable. I specifically ordered my nachos without jalapenos and she let a couple really big pieces slip through. I also passed her my glass back for a refill of iced tea, and she made a mess of it and spilled it on me. And after my terrible experience, when I asked to speak to the manager at the end of the night, I was informed that I had to contact the manager's wife and parents if I wanted to get permission to talk to him. What's up with that?

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03-02-2013, 02:53 AM
  #183
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BP74, important question:

Does the salary cap have an effect on how teams can be constructed? Why or why not?

I strongly suggest you think very, very hard about this. You might want to go read the old CBA to find out what a salary cap is, actually. It seems you don't quite understand it, based on your non-stop attempts to marginalize its importance in the modern NHL.

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03-02-2013, 03:41 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Bryz has petered a bit but it is nothing like last year....I attribute it to overwork and that is the fault of Holmgren for not having an NHL capable backup during a shortened season and one where the schedule was the worst for the Flyers the first 20 games.

Really, I mean ever since the Carter and Richards trades which have worked out and him striking out in the free agent sweepstakes..I don't think Holmgren has been particularly deft with his asset management and plan B's at all....
The Flyers really, really need to let go of the thought that Boucher and Leighton can be thought of as long term backup options. I know Boucher is a cult hero in Philly, but he is nearing the end. I dont even want Leighton around the AHL anymore. Let Heeter play. Let Munroe play.
If the Flyers had some viable options to backup Bryzgalov then maybe he wouldnt be struggling like he has since the first week of Feb. No trust in the backup goaltender is going to lead to your #1 getting overrworked.
Who knows if thats all is that ails Bryzgalov lately. It still would be nice to have a legit backup instead of the worst tandem of backups in the NHL.

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03-02-2013, 04:20 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
The Flyers really, really need to let go of the thought that Boucher and Leighton can be thought of as long term backup options. I know Boucher is a cult hero in Philly, but he is nearing the end. I dont even want Leighton around the AHL anymore. Let Heeter play. Let Munroe play.
If the Flyers had some viable options to backup Bryzgalov then maybe he wouldnt be struggling like he has since the first week of Feb. No trust in the backup goaltender is going to lead to your #1 getting overrworked.
Who knows if thats all is that ails Bryzgalov lately. It still would be nice to have a legit backup instead of the worst tandem of backups in the NHL.
The truth!

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:12 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
BP74, important question:

Does the salary cap have an effect on how teams can be constructed? Why or why not?

I strongly suggest you think very, very hard about this. You might want to go read the old CBA to find out what a salary cap is, actually. It seems you don't quite understand it, based on your non-stop attempts to marginalize its importance in the modern NHL.
Isnīt Salary a type of salad in italy?

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03-02-2013, 10:20 AM
  #187
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Bryz changed the light Sabre to green. Lame.

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03-02-2013, 10:20 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
The Flyers really, really need to let go of the thought that Boucher and Leighton can be thought of as long term backup options. I know Boucher is a cult hero in Philly, but he is nearing the end. I dont even want Leighton around the AHL anymore. Let Heeter play. Let Munroe play.
If the Flyers had some viable options to backup Bryzgalov then maybe he wouldnt be struggling like he has since the first week of Feb. No trust in the backup goaltender is going to lead to your #1 getting overrworked.
Who knows if thats all is that ails Bryzgalov lately. It still would be nice to have a legit backup instead of the worst tandem of backups in the NHL.
Fully agree!

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:01 PM
  #189
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Bryz with the dig at Timmy P. during his interview lol.

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03-02-2013, 03:11 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by hckyplayer8 View Post
Bryz with the dig at Timmy P. during his interview lol.
I missed it, what did he say?

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03-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #191
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Agree with GFH. Boucher is coming to a close on his career and I expect he'll be given a position within the organization. Heeter needs to get more playing time, and most of all we need a competent backup.

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03-02-2013, 03:16 PM
  #192
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I missed it, what did he say?
I didn't catch the reporters question but Bryz something along the lines of "I don't know. Ask Timmy P." which caused the crowd to burst into laughter. Morganti was laughing pretty good too.

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03-02-2013, 05:22 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post



Bryz changed the light Sabre to green. Lame.
They fixed Yoda's skin too. Though for some weird reason it looks like his chest area is still Orange

I never had a problem w/ the skin color or the light Sabre, I could care less, but I found it funny how all the Star Wars nerds were obsessing about the light Sabre color but didn't mention a thing about Yoda's skin looking orange. To me, Yoda being Green is even more iconic than the Jedi having a green light Sabre. My girlfriend who has never seen a star wars movie in her life even knows Yoda has green skin.

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03-02-2013, 06:29 PM
  #194
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Yoda's wearing a shirt there. I think at least. It looks like the orange area has a collar.

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03-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I hate to break it to you, but this has been an integral part of NHL discussion for the upper end of a decade now. It's not gonna go away.
dude, we understand the salary cap. but in reality its about the game. He's just makin a point that not everyone is obsessed with the cap and money side of it. I realize most people are but not everybody is. i'm mid 30's and when i started watching hockey i didn't know what they made. they didn't release that stuff back then. i understand there's a cap. but don't act like it doesn't poison your ability to accurately judge whether a player is performing well in the context of their individual situation. team as a whole, strength of opponents, schedule, comfort level, whatever. sounds like your not watching players your watching actual dollar figures skating round out there. which sounds pretty lame and depressing. its all "here's what he makes, here's what his save percentage and goals against should be" regardless of any variables. I think that's where this frustration is coming from. i know he makes a lot (they all do). especially for us. but he is the best goalie we've had since late 80's hextall, right? like almost 25 years? so we paid for him. and he's an enormous part of our team. that's why i don't care. i hated going through a goalie a season. and i think were getting our money's worth. he plays every game for christ's sake. and we are still a sloppy team. i watched a blues game the other night. that was some disciplined robotic ****. were young and inconsistent. that's the big factor to me.


Last edited by funghoul: 03-02-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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03-02-2013, 11:32 PM
  #196
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If it wasn't for two really soft goals he'd have back to back shutouts

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03-02-2013, 11:46 PM
  #197
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Are Homer's expectations important to you then or not?
tell me what, exactly, they are.
then i'll answer you.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-02-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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03-02-2013, 11:47 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
The Flyers really, really need to let go of the thought that Boucher and Leighton can be thought of as long term backup options. I know Boucher is a cult hero in Philly, but he is nearing the end. I dont even want Leighton around the AHL anymore. Let Heeter play. Let Munroe play.
If the Flyers had some viable options to backup Bryzgalov then maybe he wouldnt be struggling like he has since the first week of Feb. No trust in the backup goaltender is going to lead to your #1 getting overrworked.
Who knows if thats all is that ails Bryzgalov lately. It still would be nice to have a legit backup instead of the worst tandem of backups in the NHL.
completely agreed.

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03-02-2013, 11:52 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
dude, we understand the salary cap. but in reality its about the game. He's just makin a point that not everyone is obsessed with the cap and money side of it. I realize most people are but not everybody is. i'm mid 30's and when i started watching hockey i didn't know what they made. they didn't release that stuff back then. i understand there's a cap. but don't act like it doesn't poison your ability to accurately judge whether a player is performing well in the context of their individual situation. team as a whole, strength of opponents, schedule, comfort level, whatever. sounds like your not watching players your watching actual dollar figures skating round out there. which sounds pretty lame and depressing. its all "here's what he makes, here's what his save percentage and goals against should be" regardless of any variables. I think that's where this frustration is coming from. i know he makes a lot (they all do). especially for us. but he is the best goalie we've had since late 80's hextall, right? like almost 25 years? so we paid for him. and he's an enormous part of our team. that's why i don't care. i hated going through a goalie a season. and i think were getting our money's worth. he plays every game for christ's sake. and we are still a sloppy team. i watched a blues game the other night. that was some disciplined robotic ****. were young and inconsistent. that's the big factor to me.

Hitch doesn't mess around.

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03-02-2013, 11:53 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
dude, we understand the salary cap. but in reality its about the game. He's just makin a point that not everyone is obsessed with the cap and money side of it. I realize most people are but not everybody is. i'm mid 30's and when i started watching hockey i didn't know what they made. they didn't release that stuff back then. i understand there's a cap.

but don't act like it doesn't poison your ability to accurately judge whether a player is performing well in the context of their individual situation. team as a whole, strength of opponents, schedule, comfort level, whatever. sounds like your not watching players your watching actual dollar figures skating round out there. which sounds pretty lame and depressing.


its all "here's what he makes, here's what his save percentage and goals against should be" regardless of any variables.


I think that's where this frustration is coming from. i know he makes a lot (they all do). especially for us. but he is the best goalie we've had since late 80's hextall, right? like almost 25 years? so we paid for him. and he's an enormous part of our team. that's why i don't care. i hated going through a goalie a season..
THANK YOU for that entire post. i just like discussing the on ice game, without clouding it with the "contract of $X carries Y performance expectations"

why ? because everybody has their own unique set of expectations & nobody will ever agree. it's hard enough trying to discuss what is a 'bad goal' [as that is subjective, too] as it is, let alone throwing in every person's individual 'contractual expectations'

=======================

now, time for something COMPLETELY different: HOCKEY TALK:

GREAT win for Bryz .... completely saved them in the 1st .... 1 minute in & there's Neil W I D E open .. how does that happen ??!! good GOD !

a well deserved win, despite the gaff.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-03-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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