HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Habs vs Carolina

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-20-2006, 02:10 PM
  #1
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Habs vs Carolina

How do this year's new look Habs compare to the Carolina team that won the cup?

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 02:19 PM
  #2
Talent Analyst
Registered User
 
Talent Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 100th years
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,085
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
How do this year's new look Habs compare to the Carolina team that won the cup?
Habs Offence < Carolina Offence
Habs experience << Carolina Experience
Habs Defence >>> Carolina Defence
Habs Goalie > Carolina Goalie

Talent Analyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 02:57 PM
  #3
x-bob
Registered User
 
x-bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Habs Offence < Carolina Offence
Habs experience << Carolina Experience
Habs Defence >>> Carolina Defence
Habs Goalie > Carolina Goalie

Seems fair. Carolina still has a better team but their D took a hit. I think we could take them in a best of 7 series with SAmsonov and Johnsson instead of Bulis and Zednik.

x-bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:00 PM
  #4
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
Seems fair. Carolina still has a better team but their D took a hit. I think we could take them in a best of 7 series with SAmsonov and Johnsson instead of Bulis and Zednik.
I think we could have had them in a best of 7 with Koivu even with Z and Bubu... and no Sammy or Mike J.

AD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:22 PM
  #5
Renholder
Racing like a pro
 
Renholder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand View Post
I think we could have had them in a best of 7 with Koivu even with Z and Bubu... and no Sammy or Mike J.
Shhh...don't say that too loud. Caniacgirl might here you

Renholder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:25 PM
  #6
HughJass*
 
HughJass*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: High Point, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 5,677
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to HughJass* Send a message via Yahoo to HughJass*
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
Seems fair. Carolina still has a better team but their D took a hit. I think we could take them in a best of 7 series with SAmsonov and Johnsson instead of Bulis and Zednik.
Not really. Only lost Ward. No one replace him in the physical department but Babchuk is ready to take his minutes. If Tverdovsky played like he did mid-season then this team will be fine defensively.

I don't know why Carolina has match up issues with the Canadiens, but your team has a lot of young players who will be better players next season. Scary.

HughJass* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:33 PM
  #7
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renholder View Post
Shhh...don't say that too loud. Caniacgirl might here you
No she's gone on vacation and won't be on the boards for 3 days... I watch my back.

AD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:34 PM
  #8
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storminator16 View Post
Not really. Only lost Ward. No one replace him in the physical department but Babchuk is ready to take his minutes. If Tverdovsky played like he did mid-season then this team will be fine defensively.

I don't know why Carolina has match up issues with the Canadiens, but your team has a lot of young players who will be better players next season. Scary.
Did Carolina lose Cullen, Weight and Ward this year?

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:36 PM
  #9
AD
Registered User
 
AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bigassofficetower
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Did Carolina lose Cullen, Weight and Ward this year?
I guess you have to expect Stall, Cole, Ladd and Babchuk to become better players. + I think Walker is an improvement over Vasicek, who didn't really fit in the system last year.

Kinda like we expect Komi, Perez, Higgins, and even Markov (who I think is only getting better every year) to do more on the team.

AD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:40 PM
  #10
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Did Carolina lose Cullen, Weight and Ward this year?
and recchi, gerber...
canes don't have a credible backup anymore. they better hope that ward doesnt have a raycroft like sophmore slump.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:47 PM
  #11
x-bob
Registered User
 
x-bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
and recchi, gerber...
canes don't have a credible backup anymore. they better hope that ward doesnt have a raycroft like sophmore slump.
Ywa this could be a big concern for them. If Huet doesn't play well next season we have Aebisher but if Ward doesn't play good they have Graham I beleive.

x-bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:47 PM
  #12
x-bob
Registered User
 
x-bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storminator16 View Post
Not really. Only lost Ward. No one replace him in the physical department but Babchuk is ready to take his minutes. If Tverdovsky played like he did mid-season then this team will be fine defensively.

I don't know why Carolina has match up issues with the Canadiens, but your team has a lot of young players who will be better players next season. Scary.
DId Wesley sign? Isn't he UFA?

x-bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:50 PM
  #13
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
Ywa this could be a big concern for them. If Huet doesn't play well next season we have Aebisher but if Ward doesn't play good they have Graham I beleive.
actually grahame could be decent if he doesn't have tortorella down his back. but i'd take aebi over grahame anyday.
i also believe that this season, the 'book will be out' on ward. apparently his weakness are 'high shots.'

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:52 PM
  #14
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
DId Wesley sign? Isn't he UFA?
yup, one year deal worth 1.2 million.
oldie should have call it quits. he was probably their most useless d-man last year next to tverdovsky.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:53 PM
  #15
HughJass*
 
HughJass*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: High Point, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 5,677
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to HughJass* Send a message via Yahoo to HughJass*
-Gerber, Weight, and Recchi werent' expected back.
-Glen Wesley has re-signed. His role may change, though.
-Cullen is gone, but we do have Letowski and Walker. It's believe Letowski will play center. With Cullen gone, the third line will be different and I would imagine a line of Ladd-Letowski-Walker. Moves Whitney up to the second line, and hopefully Whitney will be healthy the upcoming season instead of having a nagging groin problem right out of camp.
-John Grahame has proven time and time again he's a very good backup goaltender. Cam Ward has always been Rutherford's hope to be a big-time goalie , and C Ward has proven to be a great WHL, AHL, and hopefully NHL goalie. No worries.

I actually think this is a better team than last season, plus we still have cap space to add more pieces. The loss of Cullen and Aaron Ward aren't that bad considering it could have been so much worse.

HughJass* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 03:57 PM
  #16
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storminator16 View Post
-Gerber, Weight, and Recchi werent' expected back.
-Glen Wesley has re-signed. His role may change, though.
-Cullen is gone, but we do have Letowski and Walker. It's believe Letowski will play center. With Cullen gone, the third line will be different and I would imagine a line of Ladd-Letowski-Walker. Moves Whitney up to the second line, and hopefully Whitney will be healthy the upcoming season instead of having a nagging groin problem right out of camp.
-John Grahame has proven time and time again he's a very good backup goaltender. Cam Ward has always been Rutherford's hope to be a big-time goalie , and C Ward has proven to be a great WHL, AHL, and hopefully NHL goalie. No worries.

I actually think this is a better team than last season, plus we still have cap space to add more pieces. The loss of Cullen and Aaron Ward aren't that bad considering it could have been so much worse.
It is hilarious how you dismiss the loss of Recchi and Weight.
"-Weight and Recchi werent' expected back."

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
  #17
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,425
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
It is hilarious how you dismiss the loss of Recchi and Weight.
"-Weight and Recchi werent' expected back."
Care to venture a guess what Carolina had as a record before getting Weight and Recchi on the team? They had the best record in the league with the exception of Detroit at the time they picked up Doug Weight. He was a rental, plain and simple.

The loss of Recchi is negated by the Scott Walker pickup.

Somehow, it doesn't concern me to replace the 8 goals in 43 combined regular season games that Weight and Recchi generated. Scott Walker will likely better 8 goals in 30 games if he's healthy.

The only changes that have been made on the Carolina team that dominated the NHL for the first half is this:

Vasicek - Walker: Vasicek gave us nothing this year, we replace him with a quality veteran player who scored 25 goals and 65 points the year before an injury plagued season last year.

Gerber - Grahame: Cam Ward takes over the 1A spot, Grahame the 1B spot. Gerber imploded in the playoffs, Cam Ward won the Conn Smythe.

Cullen - Letowski: The only real place that I think we take a hit. However, Letwoski is a proven third line player with offensive ability and is GREAT on the PK.

Ward - Babchuk: Babchuk is far more skilled than Aaron Ward, and played exceptional in the games that he played for this team last year due to injuries. Ward was getting up there in age, and not worth to this team what he was worth to another, especially considering Babchuk has forced his way into the lineup.

Factor in Eric Staal getting a year older and better, Justin Williams, Erik Cole, Andrew Ladd and others doing the same, and this team is better than our team last year.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 04:53 PM
  #18
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
Care to venture a guess what Carolina had as a record before getting Weight and Recchi on the team? They had the best record in the league with the exception of Detroit at the time they picked up Doug Weight. He was a rental, plain and simple.

The loss of Recchi is negated by the Scott Walker pickup.

Somehow, it doesn't concern me to replace the 8 goals in 43 combined regular season games that Weight and Recchi generated. Scott Walker will likely better 8 goals in 30 games if he's healthy.

The only changes that have been made on the Carolina team that dominated the NHL for the first half is this:

Vasicek - Walker: Vasicek gave us nothing this year, we replace him with a quality veteran player who scored 25 goals and 65 points the year before an injury plagued season last year.

Gerber - Grahame: Cam Ward takes over the 1A spot, Grahame the 1B spot. Gerber imploded in the playoffs, Cam Ward won the Conn Smythe.

Cullen - Letowski: The only real place that I think we take a hit. However, Letwoski is a proven third line player with offensive ability and is GREAT on the PK.

Ward - Babchuk: Babchuk is far more skilled than Aaron Ward, and played exceptional in the games that he played for this team last year due to injuries. Ward was getting up there in age, and not worth to this team what he was worth to another, especially considering Babchuk has forced his way into the lineup.

Factor in Eric Staal getting a year older and better, Justin Williams, Erik Cole, Andrew Ladd and others doing the same, and this team is better than our team last year.
Go the playoffs see ward recchi and weight. See brindy and whitney a year older.

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:00 PM
  #19
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,425
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Go the playoffs see ward recchi and weight. See brindy and whitney a year older.
You are correct. I can't argue with points that developed.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:08 PM
  #20
wholeshow*
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
You are correct. I can't argue with points that developed.
don't worry the canes only lost their top 5, 6 and 7th scoring players from the playoffs. their best defensive defenseman and their starting goaltender from last year. no big deal.

everything will be resolved with scott walker and added experience for an already 'old' team.

babchuk is a good player though, but he's still pretty raw and won't be an improvement in the defensive department over ward.

wholeshow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:13 PM
  #21
Roke
Registered User
 
Roke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,898
vCash: 500
I just watched Game 2 of the series again and I have to say, even with a healthy Koivu I don't think we beat Carolina. Even in game 2 Ward was just way too damn good. Things could be different this year with Samsonov and Johnson in for Zednik and Bulis but we'll have to wait and see.

Roke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:19 PM
  #22
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,258
vCash: 500
Well Carolina is a touchy subject for me but let me see what I can do.

I predict Carolina will have a better regular season record than Montreal next season. This, however, has very little to do with Carolina being better than Montreal, more with being top dog in a very weak division whereas Montreal plays in one of the most strongest divisions in the league. Carolina fans will no doubt bristle at this, but this is a fact that has to be considered: Carolina plays 4 games against Washington and Pittsburgh more than Montreal, while Montreal will instead get to face Ottawa and Buffalo four more times -- both superior teams to Carolina last year, and probably this year as well.

I think the Habs were, at the end of the season, roughly even with the Hurricanes when healthy. The regular season record of the team's last 20 games or so tends to bear that out, as Montreal went on a tear. The Habs also gave an excellent account of themselves in the playoff series even with a key player injured Koivu and with a bit more luck could have won the series anyway.

Now the Hurricanes may have improved some, but I think the Habs have improved as much, or more.

It will be interesting to see, but I hope the Habs give'em a good thumpin'.

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:26 PM
  #23
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,425
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunjeebakala View Post
don't worry the canes only lost their top 5, 6 and 7th scoring players from the playoffs. their best defensive defenseman and their starting goaltender from last year. no big deal.

everything will be resolved with scott walker and added experience for an already 'old' team.

babchuk is a good player though, but he's still pretty raw and won't be an improvement in the defensive department over ward.
1. How did that "Starting Goaltender", look in the first two games of the Montreal series? How did that "Backup Goaltender", look in Conn Smythe voting?

2. Aaron Ward, while a good player, was not our best defensive defenseman. Glen Wesley and Bret Hedican were. If the loss of Aaron Ward can cripple a defense, then they're not a Stanley Cup caliber team. Carolina obviously was, because they won the whole thing. Plus, Ward was 33 years old and you have to get out of veteran defensemen at some point when they're the shot blocking, physical style like Aaron Ward.

3. Players like Doug Weight and Mark Recchi are available at the deadline every single year. If Carolina is poised to make another deep run, then players will hesitate even less about waiving no trade clauses like Weight and Recchi did. The organization has the assets to bring those type of players in year after year. As I said earlier, we won without them. Where were they when Carolina had the best record in the league? Toiling in St. Louis and Pittsburgh, not even close enough to sniff the playoffs.

4. Scott Walker doesn't have to be a hero. He just has to fit better than Josef Vasicek. That isn't a very trying thing to do. If you're telling me that Trevor Letowski and Scott Walker can't at the very least replace what Matt Cullen and Josef Vasicek contributed last year, then I honestly don't know what else to say.

5. Babchuk is very raw, yes. However, in order to not be very raw you have to play at some point. If Carolina doesn't take a few lumps to get him ready, then they're not going to have an asset in the future. The way he played last year, the drop off between Ward and Babchuk isn't going to be as significant as once anticipated.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:31 PM
  #24
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,425
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The Habs also gave an excellent account of themselves in the playoff series even with a key player injured Koivu and with a bit more luck could have won the series anyway.
I hope we are removed far enough to discuss that bit with a little more of a realistic slant to things, but I think that a little bit of luck was accounted for by the fact that Martin Gerber was in nets for the first two games of the series. I think at the very least, the injury to Koivu and Gerber spotting Montreal two games negate each other.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2006, 05:38 PM
  #25
sXe
Yuuuuuup!
 
sXe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
I hope we are removed far enough to discuss that bit with a little more of a realistic slant to things, but I think that a little bit of luck was accounted for by the fact that Martin Gerber was in nets for the first two games of the series. I think at the very least, the injury to Koivu and Gerber spotting Montreal two games negate each other.
Gerber got pulled in the 2nd game and we won it. Ward was playing in the 3rd game and we we're winning that game also until...

sXe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.