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Fire Feaster?

View Poll Results: Should Jay Feaster Be Fired?
Yes 288 81.36%
No 66 18.64%
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Old
03-02-2013, 05:41 PM
  #126
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Even if Feaster was right about the wording and assuming Avs didn't match, the Flames would have been fighting this in court and RoR probably would have had to sit until resolved. Meaning they likely would have been giving up a very high pick to the Avs and not benefitted from RoR being in the lineup and improving the team
It is debatable how long he would be out, and given this team has consistently been above 10th overall pick the pick would probably still be around there and then it is debatable if it is worth it or not.

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03-02-2013, 06:04 PM
  #127
Calculon
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adater 4:13pm via Twitter for iPad O'Reilly agent Pat Morris admits on @JeffMarek and @wyshynski podcast he didn't know waiver rule.Said he wouldn't have let Flames sign if so

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:12 PM
  #128
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This whole situation is just a huge ****ing joke. The only time I waste my money on this team is when the Sharks are in town. See you guys Wednesday.

Don't get me wrong, as a Calgary resident, I want to see this team do well, but Ken King and the ownership will never let the Flames mangement make the necessary moves to get this franchise moving in the correct direction (ie, moving valuable assets, doubt I need ro name names). Now with this whole fiasco it's clear that they don't even have competant management to carry out those moves even if they were given the directive to do so. It's a very sad state this Org is in.


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Old
03-02-2013, 06:18 PM
  #129
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Fire


not just because of this deal but Feaster is not a guy to rebuild the club.

He'll give the picks away

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:18 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
adater 4:13pm via Twitter for iPad O'Reilly agent Pat Morris admits on @JeffMarek and @wyshynski podcast he didn't know waiver rule.Said he wouldn't have let Flames sign if so
Don't that surprising as the rule doesn't address offer sheets.

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:45 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
I had actually hoped Weisbrod would succeed Feaster as the GM in a couple of seasons but this whole offer sheet fiasco has soured me on him too. He's part of the front office that was either too incompetent or too arrogant to pick up the phone and call the league to clarify a vague MOU position.

I can give a guy like Conroy a pass since he's not a lawyer or expected to have a thorough understanding of all the technical and minute details of a CBA, but that same excuse can't be extended to an assistant GM like Weisbrod who should have known better. This utter embarrassment is on him too.

At this point, the best option for a new GM would have to be someone like Burke, as weird as they may seem.
From what I read Goulet was the driving force behind this. He will likely lose his job along with Feaster.

Weisbrod deserves some of the culpability here, but it's hard to blame the guy when he wasn't the one who made the call. He's a #s guy, someone who is probably well-fitted to rebuilding a franchise. If he doesn't get a shot in Calgary, I hope he gets it elsewhere and soon. Conroy remains one of my all-time favorite players, but I'm not convinced he's ready yet. I keep thinking he'd be a better coach than GM anyway.

I don't think Burke is a good option. He's already gone on record to say he won't change his approach. Two times he was handed the building blocks and top-level talent. He made some key moves that turned Vancouver and Anaheim into contenders and deserves credit for that, but when given the task of a true rebuilding project like Toronto, he failed miserably. I don't think he's the guy you want. Burke will get another job, no doubt. Hope it's not in Dallas though.

In any event I hope Hartley comes away unscathed in all of this. I still believe he's a tremendous coach.

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:50 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
At this point I would be a lot more comfortable with Burke than Feaster.
I don't understand all the Burke hate. I thought he was great. The Toronto team that's doing really well right now was completely built by him...

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03-02-2013, 08:37 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Baerstcheese View Post
I don't understand all the Burke hate. I thought he was great. The Toronto team that's doing really well right now was completely built by him...
yeah ppl in TO are impatient... same with montreal... the only fanbase that seems to want to lose is edmonton

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03-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Fire


not just because of this deal but Feaster is not a guy to rebuild the club.

He'll give the picks away
Hey look. Eeyore is back.

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:04 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
Conroy would be the absolute worst GM for the Flames! Horrible situation to even consider putting him in, having to deal away his buddies. He just isn't far enough removed from being one of the boys. I want a cold, strictly business and winning orientated GM....Burke is the only real choice. The Flames would be crazy not to turn this mess into an opportunity and hire him
Sorry but Burke scares the crap out of me. I think he would have a bigger dog and pony show than anyone available to us. His ego is way too massive for my taste. Didn't we go through this with Darryl Sutter?

As for the Leafs, didn't they start last year on a great note and faded half way into the season? He's also the idiot that gave up 2 first rounders (Seguin being one of them) to Boston for Kessel. Yes Burke has a certain sexiness to his name but let him stay in Anaheim.

With Conroy, I would only have him as an interm until the off season. I wouldn't let him make any trades without consulting ownership/upper management and if he did make it to the 2013 draft, the head scout would make the drafting decisions. Craig would be gm for the short term while we look for a suitable replacement for Feaster.

As for Conroy having to deal with trading away his buddies, this would be a quick lesson that you don't have any buddies in management if you want to keep your job. Sorry but that's life and it ain't always fair. If he can't handle it, I'm sure he could get a job as a color analyst for Sportsnet or TSN.

Long term candiates for Feaster's job should be Norm MacIver (assistant gm Chicago), Jim Nill (ass. gm Detroit), Paul Fenton (ass. gm Nashville), Lorne Henning (ass. gm Vancouver), David Conte (second in command in New Jersey behind Lou) and Jason Botterill (ass. gm Pittsburgh).

If you notice one thing about the above list that they are assistant gms that come from solid organizations (some a little more so than others). Nill would be my first choice followed by Conte and MacIver. Henning and Fenton would be dark horses.

Just my thoughts and ramblings.

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Old
03-02-2013, 11:59 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
It sounds as if Feaster may have been right about the rule after all, there are several blogs posting that Feaster actually has a case and would most likely have won his case. It may be the case that Sportsnet is indeed a sub par source.
Yeah lots of interesting stuff coming out now. Perhaps Daly had an agenda? Not sure. This thing just keeps getting more convoluted.

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03-03-2013, 12:18 AM
  #137
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If you want Conroy to have to consult the owners for every move, what's the point in firing Jay? Burke has a proven track record and Weisbrod seems to have an eye for talent and is a hard worker. I'd be happy with either of these guys.

I'm a little less pissed today, but regardless nothing changes my views that Feaster should of called into the NHL before making this deal. That was an enormous miss by the Flames. I don't think he's gonna be fired, but I know that his life line just got cut by about 75%. If the Flames miss the playoffs this year, I think Jay is a goner.

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03-03-2013, 12:26 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by beakerboy14 View Post
I guess I'm a little bit late with the above post, but I wanted to remind everyone that Jay Feaster has a background in law, not hockey. He's obviously going to look at things with a lawyers eye and thus we should probably be looking at things through a legal filter.

One of the basic rules of contract law is that it is assumed that two parties (barring an imbalance of bargaining power) tend to say what they mean when they create a contract. What is written down is the most important thing.

The argument as far as I can tell is centered around these statements from the MoU.



From the second sentence, the implication is that these lists are specific to a team and only the team that has the player on a reserve list or the RFA rights can sign the player without waivers. However, the first sentence explicitly says that all players on a reserve list or a RFA list will be exempt.

The real argument is whether it should be read as applying only to the team that signed them or to any signing. Ultimately, do you read the clause as ending in "by the club that owns the players rights" or as ending in "by any club". I'd be willing to make the argument that the second option makes much more sense as it is less restricting than the first. When we're forced to read in information, then it makes much more sense to read in the less restrictive option.

To be honest, I'm kind of sad that Colorado matched, not only because i'd love to have seen ROR on the flames, but also because it'd have been a really fun legal argument to watch.

TL;DR, I like what Feaster did. A bit of a gamble that he'd win the legal argument, but I like the chances.
For everyone defending Feaster, at the end of the day it really is black and white. Whether or not Feaster's interpretation of the NHL's rule was different or not, HE SHOULD OF GOT CLARIFICATION BEFORE MAKING THE DEAL. IMO, that's what it comes down to. Betting on our teams future with a gamble is not how an NHL should be run.

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Old
03-03-2013, 12:31 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
For everyone defending Feaster, at the end of the day it really is black and white. Whether or not Feaster's interpretation of the NHL's rule was different or not, HE SHOULD OF GOT CLARIFICATION BEFORE MAKING THE DEAL. IMO, that's what it comes down to. Betting on our teams future with a gamble is not how an NHL should be run.
Gillies on after hours said he knew ROR would of had to clear waivers if an offer sheet was handed out, could be ************ but he did say Feaster is a good GM and it was a mistake that could easily be made.

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03-03-2013, 12:33 AM
  #140
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Gillies on after hours said he knew ROR would of had to clear waivers if an offer sheet was handed out, could be ************ but he did say Feaster is a good GM and it was a mistake that could easily be made.
Sounded like a bit of a shot at Feaster. "I knew that O'Reilly would be subject to waivers. Jay Feaster's a really good GM . . . there so many moving parts in this league and there's a new CBA and it's hard to keep track of all that stuff."

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03-03-2013, 12:34 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
For everyone defending Feaster, at the end of the day it really is black and white. Whether or not Feaster's interpretation of the NHL's rule was different or not, HE SHOULD OF GOT CLARIFICATION BEFORE MAKING THE DEAL. IMO, that's what it comes down to. Betting on our teams future with a gamble is not how an NHL should be run.
This sums it up quite well. I don't know how anyone can defend Feaster for taking a risk like that given the Flames' situation.

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03-03-2013, 01:38 AM
  #142
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If you want Conroy to have to consult the owners for every move, what's the point in firing Jay? Burke has a proven track record and Weisbrod seems to have an eye for talent and is a hard worker. I'd be happy with either of these guys.

I'm a little less pissed today, but regardless nothing changes my views that Feaster should of called into the NHL before making this deal. That was an enormous miss by the Flames. I don't think he's gonna be fired, but I know that his life line just got cut by about 75%. If the Flames miss the playoffs this year, I think Jay is a goner.
Isn't Feaster have to report to owners on every move as it stands now? If you had a mult million dollar business and had a manager almost made a mistake as bad as Feaster did, you wouldn't want to keep him on a short leash? It's not really rocket science.

As for Burke, one Stanley Cup win is a proven record? Doesn't Jay have that as well? Does Darryl Sutter count now because he won a cup last year? Why are people fixated on another egomaniac like Burke. I said it before and I will say it again, he is no better than Sutter was and do you really want to go through that again.?

Do you not realise that Toronto let go of Burke for a reason? Personality clash mostly but he had a lot of years to fix the Leafs and stuck with Wilson. If he had Carlyle a year or two earlier then he might still be with the team (yes I understand Carlyle wasn't available a year or two earlier but its who they needed behind the bench until the players tune him out like they did Wilson).

I pick Jim Nill because of his pedigree from Detroit. Hopefully some of Devellano has rubbed off on him. Detroit hasn't missed the playoffs for the last 21 years and only twice have they been out of it in the last 28 seasons. We need someone who comes from a winning traditon. That's how the rebuild begins. That an ownership like Ilitch helps alot.

Burke has been a gm for he's done it for 15 seasons not including this year. His teams (Hartford, Vancouver, Anaheim and Toronto) have only made the playoffs 7 times with one Stanley Cup win.

I don't understand the obession people have with Burke. Explain it to me please. What's next? Don Cherry as our head coach?

As for Feaster, you are 100% right that he's not getting fired. It would be an omission by ownership that they made yet another mistake. I think you will hear the word rebuild before he's dismissed.

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Old
03-03-2013, 09:33 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Sounded like a bit of a shot at Feaster. "I knew that O'Reilly would be subject to waivers. Jay Feaster's a really good GM . . . there so many moving parts in this league and there's a new CBA and it's hard to keep track of all that stuff."
Actually, quite the opposite. He was trying to save your GM's face.



can't seem to get video working. Go to youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YexFh...ydf5S59SHXKP6g
Around 13:30 is when it starts.


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Old
03-03-2013, 09:42 AM
  #144
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I've been a proponent of the rebuild for 2-3 years.

I think Feaster would like to rebuild, but doesn't have the owners concurrence to do so. SO he does so around the edges.

I actually think that feaster's interpretation of the MOU language may be correct. In any event, I don't think there is any way that the NHL would have allowed ROR to go on waivers based on the language contained in a MOU, when clearly the intention was that the waiver rule did not apply to RFA. THe rule was put in to prevent teams from stashing UFA"s in Europe and having them come over just before the playoffs. Since the rule was agreed not to apply to RFA's, there is no reason why the whole offer sheet system was meant to not be available if a player played in Europe.

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03-03-2013, 11:19 AM
  #145
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Its not the kind of mistake a guy would make twice. We got lucky that it had no consequences, but I like some of the other moves Feaster has made so I don't think he should be fired over this.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:23 AM
  #146
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All you guys saying Conroy should be GM already shake your heads in shame. Someday perhaps, but he hasn't even spent time as anything more than a scout/face off tutor.

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03-03-2013, 06:48 PM
  #147
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Yup Feaster made an offer sheet and risked losing the player to waivers.
Colorado never put out there that ROR would have to go on waivers first. Colorado wanted ROR to get an offer sheet so they could overpay to sign their own player.
Agent did not know of such clause in CBA and allowed teams to negotiate. yeah right.

Sounds like the whole league should be fired.

Over reaction I think. NO?


Fire Feaster for what might have happened I don't think so.

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03-04-2013, 02:51 PM
  #148
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This may have been brought up in earlier pages, but wasn't Dale Tallon axed in Chicago for not faxing a qualifying offer on time which resulted in paying Cam Barker a little too much? If I drink and drive a delivery van off a bridge and survive and no one else is hurt, I'm still fired.
Though I do think Ken King and ownership are the real problem. I don't care how many charity golf barbeques and alumni luncheons they have, I don't care how much money they make and waste. This is a hockey club, not a Sobeys.


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03-04-2013, 05:15 PM
  #149
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This may have been brought up in earlier pages, but wasn't Dale Tallon axed in Chicago for not faxing a qualifying offer on time which resulted in paying Cam Barker a little too much? If I drink and drive a delivery van off a bridge and survive and no one else is hurt, I'm still fired.
Though I do think Ken King and ownership are the real problem. I don't care how many charity golf barbeques and alumni luncheons they have, I don't care how much money they make and waste. This is a hockey club, not a Sobeys.
He was. And it wasn't just Cam Barker, it was also Kris Versteeg, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Aaron Johnson and Troy Brouwer. But it's likely there was some background politics involved as well, given Scotty Bowmans relationship to the organization and how his son, Stan Bowman was positioning himself to takeover.

The Devils made the same mistake in 2000 as well, but Lamoriello obviously wasn't fired.

I think if Feaster is indeed let go in the off season, then we can look back at this incident as having played a role in that, regardless of what official reasoning the Flames organization choose to give.

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03-07-2013, 09:50 PM
  #150
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The best GM in Calgary is Kelly Kisio. I wonder if he has been considered.

-proven winner, year after year
-excellent judge of talent
-knows how to put together a team
-he even wins during rebuilding
-former flame
-has forgotten more about hockey than Jay Feaster will ever know

My main concern would be that it would hurt the Hitmen. You can pretty much depend on entertaining hockey every spring. Check em out, they look good this year and playoffs are a sure thing. BTW, for average height and wieght, the Hitmen D are bigger than the Flames. Suck on that one Feaster.

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