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Your Official 2012 / 2013 "Lose out for draft position / staff change!" Thread

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Old
03-01-2013, 11:50 AM
  #151
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Kopitar and Brown and Doughty were "rushed"

oh right, examples are only relevant when you are using them
What? I said nothing about those players in regards to rushing them. Nice try though.

Do you even remember your OWN argument. You listed a bunch of Sabres prospects that we were going to play next season after we trade Miller for a 1st and add no one of note in the summer.

You said we would then bring in Armia, Girgs, Pysyk, etc to go with Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno and Grigs. Thats who I was referencing when I was talking about rushing players. You actually think its smart to dress all those kids and hope they can all develop together? I think thats incredibly foolish.




Quote:
No team intentionally tries to suck for an extended period of time in the hopes of getting a bunch of top 5 picks as a rebuilding strategy. When a team is crappy for that long its usually due to crappy ownership or financial hardship. Neither being the case here.


Last edited by joshjull: 03-01-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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Old
03-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #152
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If the draft was today, we'd be picking #3. I'd imagine we'd take whichever of the Big Three that wasn't selected by those teams.

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03-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #153
aceface33
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Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama21 View Post
I may have been one of the few who didn't expect the change to do anything. Ruff's voice had clearly faded and he needed to move on but at the same time, the team needs to be pulled apart. It's just not working, regardless of the coach.
Seems like the new voice is having an effect on the team's play in the last few games. Regardless on if the team needs to be pulled apart or not, if a new coach can squeeze more wins out of the current roster then it's going to kill our tanking initiative. I maintain that if you truly wanted to tank then keeping Lindy would have been the best option. The idea behind canning the coach is to get the team to play better yet most people I see simultaneously wanted Lindy gone and also want to tank. It does not make sense to me. I mean are you watching the last few games saying "Damn you Rolston! You're better than the horrible coach we used to have and are thus making our team play better!" Personally I'm glad to see the improvement. I wanted Lindy gone and I want to think that having a better coach will have a positive effect on our players, especially the young ones who need to develop correctly.

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03-01-2013, 01:20 PM
  #154
vcv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
Seems like the new voice is having an effect on the team's play in the last few games. Regardless on if the team needs to be pulled apart or not, if a new coach can squeeze more wins out of the current roster then it's going to kill our tanking initiative. I maintain that if you truly wanted to tank then keeping Lindy would have been the best option. The idea behind canning the coach is to get the team to play better yet most people I see simultaneously wanted Lindy gone and also want to tank. It does not make sense to me. I mean are you watching the last few games saying "Damn you Rolston! You're better than the horrible coach we used to have and are thus making our team play better!" Personally I'm glad to see the improvement. I wanted Lindy gone and I want to think that having a better coach will have a positive effect on our players, especially the young ones who need to develop correctly.
Disagree that keeping Lindy would have been the best tanking option. I think that would have been promoting James Patrick to interim.

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03-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #155
aceface33
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Disagree that keeping Lindy would have been the best tanking option. I think that would have been promoting James Patrick to interim.
Lindy does have a way of making late season runs so maybe you're right. On the other hand I want to believe that changing the coach will have a positive impact on the team. I'm rooting for Rolston to do well even if it has a negative effect on tanking.

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:31 PM
  #156
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I'm not buying stock on the Sabres based on those two wins. We beat the 11th and 13th place teams in the conference because Miller (.946, stopped both shootout attempts) vastly outplayed two backups and Theodore (.891, 0-for-2 in the shootout). We got some bounces in the Lightning game, and Clemmensen turned into a pumpkin last night. I find it alarming that we were beaten so badly in the possession game by those two clubs. It's not sustainable.

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03-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #157
Layne Staley
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I'm all for tanking this season and getting a top 3 pick for once. When was the last time we had a top 3 pick, Turgeon in 87? Aside from Vanek, we haven't had drafted a cant miss elite prospect in many years due to not getting top picks. Hard to root against my team but its for the betterment of the future.

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03-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #158
vcv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
I'm all for tanking this season and getting a top 3 pick for once. When was the last time we had a top 3 pick, Turgeon in 87? Aside from Vanek, we haven't had drafted a cant miss elite prospect in many years due to not getting top picks. Hard to root against my team but its for the betterment of the future.
From earlier:

1970 - 1st overall - Gilbert Perreault
1971 - 5th overall - Rick Martin
1972 - 5th overall - Jim Schoenfeld
- No top 5 pick for a while -
1982 - 6th overall - Phil Housley (later parlayed for Dale Hawerchuk)
1983 - 5h overall - Tom Barrasso
1986 - 5th overall - Shawn Anderson (BOOOO)
1987 - 1st overall - Pierre Turgeon
2003 - 5th overall - Thomas Vanek

TWO top 3 picks in franchise history. Both worked out quite well.

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03-01-2013, 04:55 PM
  #159
Layne Staley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
From earlier:

1970 - 1st overall - Gilbert Perreault
1971 - 5th overall - Rick Martin
1972 - 5th overall - Jim Schoenfeld
- No top 5 pick for a while -
1982 - 6th overall - Phil Housley (later parlayed for Dale Hawerchuk)
1983 - 5h overall - Tom Barrasso
1986 - 5th overall - Shawn Anderson (BOOOO)
1987 - 1st overall - Pierre Turgeon
2003 - 5th overall - Thomas Vanek

TWO top 3 picks in franchise history. Both worked out quite well.
So we hit home runs on 7 of our 8 top 6 draft picks in franchise history. I think this list by itself shows the benefit of finishing at the bottom and earning a high draft choice. Give me a top 3 pick this year and ill be happy.

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:56 AM
  #160
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What? I said nothing about those players in regards to rushing them. Nice try though.
oh right, correlations are only something you can make.


Quote:
No team intentionally tries to suck for an extended period of time in the hopes of getting a bunch of top 5 picks as a rebuilding strategy. When a team is crappy for that long its usually due to crappy ownership or financial hardship. Neither being the case here.
so going young = intentionally trying to suck

got it

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:09 AM
  #161
TheCerebral1
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So do people here prefer MacKinnon, Nichushkin, or Jones. Personally I like MacKinnon then Jones in that order. However, Jones would be a really solid fit for the Buffalo Sabres.

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:47 AM
  #162
Der Jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post

Sucking for multiple years, like the Pens and Hawks did, is NOT something any team does intentionally. Its the product of either financial issues with the franchise or inept/terrible ownership. The few posters that think the Sabres should use the Pens/Hawks "rebuilding model" are not grasping that its not an actual rebuilding plan. So to advocate its use is beyond daft.
Straw man argument. I grasp the situation just fine, and the difference between what Buffalo needs to do vs what Pittsburgh did.

At least for me, I've never advocated sucking for multiple years a la Chicago or Pittsburgh. I have advocated bottoming out this season to get MacKinnon. It's pretty clear when I posted my line combos, with MacKinnon included, and then how I think it would dramatically change the Sabres top nine forwards, as well as Regier's trading position.

Chicago and Pittsburgh weren't the only two teams talked about. LA? They were mentioned too, along with other teams that needed to add a top 5 talent before progressing. You twisted that idea to make you point.

The point is that some teams bottom out for a season or two, get high picks, and that propels them forward as a better team. Buffalo will be far better positioned for a Cup run by tanking the season, getting an elite talent, and going forward.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:26 AM
  #163
1972
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I know getting a top 3 pick would be great for this franchise moving forward, be even any pick in the top 10 should go along way.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:48 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCerebral1 View Post
So do people here prefer MacKinnon, Nichushkin, or Jones. Personally I like MacKinnon then Jones in that order. However, Jones would be a really solid fit for the Buffalo Sabres.
He won't go top 3. Drouin is at 2.2 PPG in the Q without having his star center in Mackinnon with him, he actually has been putting up even more points without him. Mackinnon, Drouin, Jones are at a lock for top 3. Nichushkin I don't think goes within the top 6 with Barkov, Lindholm, and Monahan.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:54 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCerebral1 View Post
So do people here prefer MacKinnon, Nichushkin, or Jones. Personally I like MacKinnon then Jones in that order. However, Jones would be a really solid fit for the Buffalo Sabres.
Nichushkin doesn't belong in the discussion with those 2 IMO. I don't think he'll get picked before 10.
My top 10 list (in order of personal preference) is:
MacKinnon
Drouin
Jones
Barkov
Monahan
Lindholm
Nurse
Ristolainen
Pulock
Nichushkin

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Old
03-02-2013, 10:03 AM
  #166
Karate Johnson
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I don't think "rushing" young players is a big deal. Provided the expctations are that they are a very young team who is learning on the job.....

If we gutted a lot of the vets, and dressed a young team the fans would have to know that booing would not be approiate during the bumps in the road.

Unfortunately a large portion of Sabres fans are idiots.


IF we played the Armias and Pysyks, while getting rid of the Poms, Staffords, etc, the expectations should be winning some games, and watching the team grow.

playoffs aren't likely. But you never know with a bunch of guys who give effort and energy every night....

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03-02-2013, 05:01 PM
  #167
Dixon Ward
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totally predictable that these idiots would put together a win streak

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:04 PM
  #168
Zip15
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Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
totally predictable that these idiots would put together a win streak
Shootout wins, naturally.

As of right now, based on win%, we'd draft 6th. On our way to 12th!

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:25 PM
  #169
Chainshot
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Three game trolling streak.

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03-02-2013, 05:29 PM
  #170
vcv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
totally predictable that these idiots would put together a win streak
Sarcasm or...?

I don't understand why you would call them idiots for trying to win.

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:56 PM
  #171
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Three game trolling streak.
I enjoy their trolling streak right now.

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03-02-2013, 06:43 PM
  #172
Dubi Doo
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Sarcasm or...?

I don't understand why you would call them idiots for trying to win.
Right?

The only reason I was hoping for a crap season was in hopes Ruff would get fired. That has already happened.

While I would love to get a top prospect, I want this team to win. I want to see this team start to develop. The Sabres already have some top notch prospects, and with their drafting, I'm sure they'll get another nice prospect in this draft. I also believe Regier is going to get some picks at the trade deadline. Moving up is a decent possibility, imo.


I still think they'll end up with a top 5 pick, so I'm numb to wins and losses right now, but I want progress!

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03-02-2013, 06:46 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
totally predictable that these idiots would put together a win streak
If only we were still the worst team in the east, and 2nd worst team in the league based on points. Ohh wait.....

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Old
03-02-2013, 06:50 PM
  #174
1972
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Regardless of where you end up you are getting a very good prospect in the 1st round. If we get our 12th overall pick Nurse or Zadorov would really intrigue me.

Remember last year when Devine said they would stay away from smaller players for a few years? Would that mean that a guy like Barkov could be ranked ahead of Drouin for them? Would be curious to see.

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Old
03-02-2013, 07:24 PM
  #175
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At this point I don't see Florida ever catching us again in the standings. Theodore is injured again and Scott Clemensen is their "starter". Add to that some of the stuff that seems to be going on behind the scenes with Tallon trying to get anything for the players on the team not part of the long term future and they'll likely get worse.

Columbus is still up in the air. That is really not a terrible team (when healthy) but they can't stay healthy and they play in a brutal division. So I will say for now that there's very little chance that they catch us as well.

So barring we win the lottery OR Regier decides to start shipping off pieces we're looking at the "best" case scenario being the 3rd overall pick.

I think Washington recovers and takes the Southeast but christ what a terrible division. Anyone who wants a higher draft pick this year better start rooting for Carolina, Tampa Bay and Winnipeg to start winning some out of division games (besides NYI) because those 4 teams will be in direct competition with Buffalo by the end of the year. It's also one of the reasons why Buffalo could still make the playoffs. Have I mentioned how terrible the East is?

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