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Old
03-02-2013, 03:00 PM
  #926
Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if we got him. Not many options out there anyway. We're helping Toronto out by taking on Komisarek's salary and sparing them from using the compliance buyout. A 6th/7th rounder is what I'd offer. Anything more than a 4th rounder would be a travesty.
I agree with this. he's a decent guy to take a chance on for a really cheap price. And he's right handed.

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03-02-2013, 03:00 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post

If the goal is to legitimately get better though, and find a guy that potentially fits into the teams plans for more than 1 season ... to me that's not Komi ... they will look for a mobile D with some puck skills. I think that's GM Joe's primary focus with D ... puck moving ability. IMO, that's obviously why they didn't like Fistric.
Would a guy like Liles be an option? He's been scratched a few times this season, but has puck moving ability.

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:01 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
And the Cole trade isn't really a move for the playoffs. Well it is, but it's also about the future to have a veteran beyond this season. So what if it's only two years? Young players still need veterans to look up to and help them learn how to be a pro.
I think we talked about this specific topic in the Ryder thread, but I'll mention again that to me it's the unnecessary risk of a trade like this. You traded for an under-performing veteran pushing 35. I really hope the start to his season is fluke, but no one can say for sure this isn't just the natural decline of an older forward who has put his body through hell.

I've said from the beginning ... even before Ryder was traded honestly ... I didn't feel Ryder was a player for this team beyond this season. He'd cost too much, and he'd get a contract that I wouldn't be comfortable with. The fact that Cole is a veteran "blocking youth" isn't my issue ... it's that he's an old guy with a realistic possibility of being on the decline. The trade is fine assuming Cole is the guy we've seen in the past. It's a risk ... and it's not exactly a smart one. Morrow and Cole play similar games ... we know first hand how that style of play tears a guy down. Cole is a bit bigger, but he also has a serious neck injury in his past.

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:03 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
His issues hasn't been a reoccurring injury or anything serious injury wise so it's not entirely out of the question he could still be a useful Top 6 D with a fresh start.

My main problem is the extra year on his contract. Even if he's a useful ... he's unnecessary with Aaron Rome. With Rome out so long, and the role they were playing him in, I could see them trying to replace him. If that's the goal, it's going to have to be a guy with an expiring contract.

If the goal is to legitimately get better though, and find a guy that potentially fits into the teams plans for more than 1 season ... to me that's not Komi ... they will look for a mobile D with some puck skills. I think that's GM Joe's primary focus with D ... puck moving ability. IMO, that's obviously why they didn't like Fistric.
Ideally I'd go after Komi and Meszaros. Both bring what this team needs... Defense and mobility haha. Komi can teach Dillon, Oleksiak, and Nemeth how to impose will. Mez can do what Goligoski isn't capable of.

Meszaros-Dillon
Daley-Komisarek
Robidas-Oleksiak
Rome

That doesn't look too damn bad, and I think it's very attainable. Would end up losing a couple of draft picks and maybe Larsen, and maybe just maybe Glennie ()

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:04 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Fly Like a C5 View Post
Would a guy like Liles be an option? He's been scratched a few times this season, but has puck moving ability.
He's been scratched the majority of the season like Komi IIRC. The Toronto media recently talked to him, and he said he wasn't asking for a trade.

Liles is NOT the guy IMO because he has 3 years remaining on his contract, and more importantly he's another small D.

That just won't work. They can't have Daley, Robidas, Goligoski, and Larsen on the same team as Liles.


Last edited by BigG44: 03-02-2013 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Missing key words
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Old
03-02-2013, 03:07 PM
  #931
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One of the Hockey's Future Staff in the trade forums made some good points about why Philadelphia wouldn't trade Meszaros. It was similar to what txomisc hadn't mentioned.

More importantly, he mentioned Briere was a top candidate for an amnesty buyout. With Pronger on LTIR, and a potential buyout of Briere, they don't have to move anyone.

If Dallas is interested in Meszaros .. they might have to wait until next summer.

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:08 PM
  #932
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Want absolutely nothing to do with Liles.

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:10 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Want absolutely nothing to do with Liles.
Same here

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:14 PM
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Want absolutely nothing to do with Liles.
Agreed.

Meszaros isn't moving. If Komisarek is cheap, don't see a problem with it. Don't really understand why he got such a huge contract, but it's not that big of a deal.

Goligoski - Komisarek
Dillon - Robidas
Daley - Larsen
Rome

Still not very good, but it's a bit improved.

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Old
03-02-2013, 03:36 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
One of the Hockey's Future Staff in the trade forums made some good points about why Philadelphia wouldn't trade Meszaros. It was similar to what txomisc hadn't mentioned.

More importantly, he mentioned Briere was a top candidate for an amnesty buyout. With Pronger on LTIR, and a potential buyout of Briere, they don't have to move anyone.

If Dallas is interested in Meszaros .. they might have to wait until next summer.
yes. very similar to what i hadn't mentioned

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Old
03-02-2013, 04:24 PM
  #936
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In Niewy's recent interview on the Stars website, he mentions that he believes Fraser can hold his own in the NHL. Seems obvious he was sent down simply because they don't' have a spot, and don't want him playing on the 4th line or press box.

Makes a trade of Morrow even more expected.

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Old
03-02-2013, 04:50 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
In Niewy's recent interview on the Stars website, he mentions that he believes Fraser can hold his own in the NHL. Seems obvious he was sent down simply because they don't' have a spot, and don't want him playing on the 4th line or press box.

Makes a trade of Morrow even more expected.
There still wouldn't be room unless you think they'd be willing to send down Antoine Roussel or Reilly Smith in favor of him. The fact that they're up now over him seems to indicate at least for right now Fraser is behind them on the depth chart.

Without Morrow, the six Top 9 wingers seem to be: Cole, Eriksson, Jagr, Roussel, Smith, and Whitney

If Fraser did impress them enough for Top 9 spot ... it's entirely possible that some of Fiddler's poorer decisions ... especially the trash he pulled in Nashville ... could make him available in favor of playing Roussel as the 4th line center. I think overall Fiddler's had an above average year since he's been on the 4th line so that's probably not going to happen, but it's a way to keep Roussel, Smith, and Fraser all in the lineup if that was GM Joe's goal.

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Old
03-02-2013, 04:54 PM
  #938
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No not really. French speakers is an accurate description of Antoine Roussel and Derek Roy. It is funny though that Frozen somehow struck a nerve.
I don't know how you figure it "struck a nerve". He worded it as if Cole has to play with two French players. You're taking my post way farther than it actually was, more so than I did.

German speakers is an accurate defintion for Boston's top defensive pairing, but it implies that there's two Germans (Austrians/Germans/Swiss) on their top pairing, not a German and a Slovak.

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Old
03-02-2013, 05:31 PM
  #939
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You guys are being stupid stop it. Go back to talking about how we can acquire Komisarek and a pick for Morrow.

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I think we talked about this specific topic in the Ryder thread, but I'll mention again that to me it's the unnecessary risk of a trade like this. You traded for an under-performing veteran pushing 35.
Isn't that what rebuilding teams do, though? Acquire young players AND older veterans with something to prove. Is that not what the Rangers did a few years ago when they were rebuilding?

I agree with you, it's just that it's not as big of a deal as people want to make it out to be. Ideally though this is two trades: one that acquires the under-performing veteran for not much of value, and a second that deals a soon to be UFA for picks and prospects.

It will make this trade look a whole lot better if Morrow is traded (and Roy too, if he can't be re-signed) for a decent return.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:04 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
I'm not really sure Joe can be blamed for those seasons. Back then you really got the impression he was hamstrung in what he could do by the lenders, and they didn't want him to sell but try to push for the playoffs. It sucks, I know. But at least he always kept the draft picks to help restock the system.

And the Cole trade isn't really a move for the playoffs. Well it is, but it's also about the future to have a veteran beyond this season. So what if it's only two years? Young players still need veterans to look up to and help them learn how to be a pro.
I'm really starting to think the whole veteran part of the leadership dynamic is really being oversold these days. Based on what I see, a guy like Dillon is every bit the leader that some of the veterans on this team are. Same with Eakin. Those two players have been among the team's most consistent both in effort and results. Followers should follow true leaders, not just follow a guy because he was born during the Nixon administration.

Regarding Cole specifically, here are players who are veteran enough for rookies to "follow" if need be during the 2013-14 season:

Whitney
Eriksson
Fiddler
Daley
Robidas
Lehtonen

...and I'll throw Benn in there as the team's best player and veteran of four NHL campaigns.

I'm not going to bemoan this trade forever, I just want to go on record saying that it appears to be a bad one. And if the point is to just get veteran voices in the room it's possible to pick up a bottom 6 type of veteran guy at the draft by a team looking to shed a bit of salary. It didn't have to be addressed in the trade of your most valuable asset.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:08 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Ideally I'd go after Komi and Meszaros. Both bring what this team needs... Defense and mobility haha. Komi can teach Dillon, Oleksiak, and Nemeth how to impose will. Mez can do what Goligoski isn't capable of.

Meszaros-Dillon
Daley-Komisarek
Robidas-Oleksiak
Rome

That doesn't look too damn bad, and I think it's very attainable. Would end up losing a couple of draft picks and maybe Larsen, and maybe just maybe Glennie ()
Does Dillon really need someone to teach him how to impose his will?

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:13 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
Isn't that what rebuilding teams do, though? Acquire young players AND older veterans with something to prove. Is that not what the Rangers did a few years ago when they were rebuilding?

I agree with you, it's just that it's not as big of a deal as people want to make it out to be. Ideally though this is two trades: one that acquires the under-performing veteran for not much of value, and a second that deals a soon to be UFA for picks and prospects.

It will make this trade look a whole lot better if Morrow is traded (and Roy too, if he can't be re-signed) for a decent return.
Do you mean the local baseball team Rangers or the New York Rangers?

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:28 PM
  #944
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It really wouldn't be, except for depriving of us a RH RD. Of which we have two signed long term (at least RD) in Daley and Goligoski, and Nemeth who can play RD. And Robidas.
Goligoski isn't a RD..hardly ever played RD.. Daley is a left shot who plays mostly RD. One way or another they'll have to find a RD somewhere if they end up dumping Robidas or Larsen.

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Old
03-02-2013, 09:44 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
Isn't that what rebuilding teams do, though? Acquire young players AND older veterans with something to prove. Is that not what the Rangers did a few years ago when they were rebuilding?

I agree with you, it's just that it's not as big of a deal as people want to make it out to be. Ideally though this is two trades: one that acquires the under-performing veteran for not much of value, and a second that deals a soon to be UFA for picks and prospects.

It will make this trade look a whole lot better if Morrow is traded (and Roy too, if he can't be re-signed) for a decent return.
You ignored the meat of the argument. I said the fact he was a veteran didn't mean anything ... the fact that he's struggled and could be on the downside of his career is a significant risk. I hope he's good to go, but when a guy is in his mid-30's and struggling ... the logical question to ask is this the beginning of the end. Dallas doesn't think it is ... and hopefully they are right. Otherwise they just made an $8 million gamble they won't be able to get rid of ... and in this case he isn't an asset you acquired for nothing like you did with Whitney. You traded a valuable asset for him so it's an even bigger risk than Whitney.

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Old
03-03-2013, 12:34 AM
  #946
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Does Dillon really need someone to teach him how to impose his will?
Nope, just trying to make the package look even prettier to the people who only see numbers.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:27 AM
  #947
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yes. very similar to what i hadn't mentioned
Some very astute non-comments on your part.

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Old
03-03-2013, 08:05 AM
  #948
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I wonder if they are planning on shaking up the top line soon. Whitney should be back mid march or later, i wonder if they will wait for him to get back or do it before. First line looks really really bad and it would make sense to try to replace morrow before benn and jagr ( i would hope) but i wouldn't be surprised if they did because defensively the line has been so bad lately. I would hate to see a Benn Jagr split but something tells me they are trying to get value out of Morrow at whatever cost.

I don't know, but to me that line has gone from really great to a liability for the team. I don't think you can put Ericsson on the top line with Jagr & Benn because those 3 players combine for 18, most out of any 3. I like them as an emergency score a goal at the end of the game line, but i doubt we will see a front loaded line.

Also with Cole playing on the right, maybe he could try going up to the front line and Jagr on the second, and maybe combine them all on the PP? Or maybe a very defensive minded player on the left wing with Jagr & Benn, maybe Cole?

I would really like to see something be done.

Edit: Can we get a game day thread up in this biatch? This is the earliest game of the year.. we need to support our team!!!!

What do you guys think this is a Sunday Morning after being out all night... oh wait


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Old
03-03-2013, 12:45 PM
  #949
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Komi update:

Quote:
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle

Mike Komisarek: "I’ve got to be ready for when an opportunity comes – when and where that is, who knows? We’ll see how it unfolds."

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #950
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If he really does get bought out (this season, if they make some kind of rule for him again or something), I wouldn't mind a 1 year deal at all.

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