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What does MacKinnon have over Barkov?

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:25 PM
  #101
nki
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Is there any critique to be said about MacKinnon then?
I think he has a good to very good hockey sense not elite. Barkov has better decision-making. I think it's far more likely you'll see a MacKinnon turnover than a Barkov turnover. Barkov plays a safer, control type of game that shouldn't result in many turnovers (see: Kopitar).

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02-27-2013, 04:37 PM
  #102
JetsHomer
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Is there any critique to be said about MacKinnon then?
Not particularly. He's a very very good prospect. So is Barkov however. I think both will be #1 centers in the NHL.

I think Mackinnon might be the lesser prospects in terms of play making. Not passing cause Mackinnon is an awesome passer, but I think Barkov has better vision. Probably better stick handling too. Mackinnons shot is probably superior, but Barkov is close. Skating is the big difference. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a skater as Mackinnon is now at 17. He's absolutely explosive, think he'll be on the Gaborik/Hall/E Kane level of power skating very soon


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02-27-2013, 05:01 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Is there any critique to be said about MacKinnon then?
He's a pretty complete player. Lack of size may be the biggest thing even if it is not something that is a glaring weakness in his game. As someone else pointed out maybe his ability to use his teammates could be improved but maybe someone who has seen MacKinnon more can chime in.

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02-27-2013, 05:30 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Flying High View Post
Not particularly. He's a very very good prospect. So is Barkov however. I think both will be #1 centers in the NHL.

I think Mackinnon might be the lesser prospects in terms of play making. Not passing cause Mackinnon is an awesome passer, but I think Barkov has better vision. Probably better stick handling too. Mackinnons shot is probably superior, but Barkov is close. Skating is the big difference. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a skater as Mackinnon is now at 17. He's absolutely explosive, think he'll be on the Gaborik/Hall/E Kane level of power skating very soon
Barkov has ridiculous quality in his passes. He can pass tape to tape quickly with the backhand and with the forehand. The passes are very accurate and hard. He can share it to both wingers very quickly for example when they're going to counter attack etc. Or give long opening passes just like defenders. I don't mean necessarily offensive passes but passes in every situation.

MacKinnon has very impressive speed and especially accerelation. I agree with you that Barkov never reaches that kind of skating. I think that in the goal scoring Mackinnon is better at sniping it in and he uses his shot more often even tough Barkov has similar heavy shot with quick release. Barkov scores most of his goal around the net from rebounds, deflections and picking top corners from close range using his large frame to gain an good position in the crucial scoring areas. I think that MacKinnon is bigger threat offensively when he has the puck because his ridiculous skating but i actually think that Barkov is bigger threat without the puck because he is hard to move off the "war areas" because of his size and strength. You forgot the size difference about the two. Mackinnon is very strong for kid for his age and height but Barkov is something different. Barkov will be Ovechkin, Jagr, thornton like physical specimen. It is very useful at the defensive zone battling in the corners, boards, PK, at cycling game in the offensive zone. Think MacKinnon fighting against David Backes at the defensive zone and after that think Barkov. Size is big help in certain areas. Barkov is now too strong for FEL players to handle and he is just 17. His linemate and personal trainer Ville Nieminen stated that he has only scratched on the surface of his physical developement.

I could see MacKinnon having higher offensive potential off the two but MacKinnon never is going to be as effective player defensively especially when you watch how much board game is involved in the NHL. It's not racing up and down like in CHL. It's alot of battling in the corners and scoring ugly garbage goals. Especially at the playoffs. MacKinnon always has to hustle hard to get the puck from bigger players. Barkov just need to give small body bump and it looks very easy. But i don't know if MacKinnon ever has issue at hustling because his motor never seem to stop but never will be as easy job as Barkov does.

Lemme say again MacKinnon is an strong player for his age against CHL players but Barkov is big physical specimen and he is going to be one of the strongest players in the NHL if he is anything like his dad was. The difference is big in that category.

I would say that both are excellent players and top prospects for this draft. There is small gap between every top player in this draft.


Last edited by thomast: 02-28-2013 at 03:07 AM.
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Old
02-28-2013, 01:50 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
As good as Barkov is, MacKinnon has shown more ability to take the game by the scruff of it's neck and enforce himself on the game.
Well of course he does. He plays against 16-19 year old defensemen

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02-28-2013, 07:09 AM
  #106
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Off topic, but I can only hope MacKinnon is in the league next year so that Hockey Canada doesn't have a shot at getting him back for another world juniors. They really **** the bed by placing him on the 4th line. Him and Drouin have amazing chemistry, and Spott refused to exploit that.
To be fair, Drouin's skillset and style make him more effective against players of this age, also he is a winger. When you look at the centers ahead of MacKinnon and what is at stake at the tournament I can understand their choices. They also didn't want to put Drouin on the fourth line just to be with Mac.

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03-02-2013, 04:52 PM
  #107
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Thing that somewhat still baffles me is that Barkov is absolutely demolishing all past records of Finnish draft eligible players. He is the most promising prospect right after Selanne. Still, people are doubting him, and placing prospects like Drouin and MacKinnon above him. Sure, they have been dominant, but so have many other Canadian prospects been lately, but what they have accomplished isn't anything special really. But what Barkov is doing is something HISTORICAL that hasn't been witnessed before.

Still, people around here are saying Drouin for 1st AINEC etc. etc.

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03-02-2013, 05:31 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Thing that somewhat still baffles me is that Barkov is absolutely demolishing all past records of Finnish draft eligible players. He is the most promising prospect right after Selanne. Still, people are doubting him, and placing prospects like Drouin and MacKinnon above him. Sure, they have been dominant, but so have many other Canadian prospects been lately, but what they have accomplished isn't anything special really. But what Barkov is doing is something HISTORICAL that hasn't been witnessed before.

Still, people around here are saying Drouin for 1st AINEC etc. etc.
Drouin has the highest 17 yr old PPG in the Q since Crosby. See how you can play that game with any of these guys? From my limited viewing of Barkov I'd say he's behind Drouin in the hands and offensive flair departments and MacKinnon is the best skating high end center in a long time. Barkov may well become the better all around player but there certainly is a debate to be had and based on a raw skill perspective I'd be tempted to take either Moosehead over him. That said I haven't seen him play live like I have the other 2.

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03-02-2013, 05:36 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
From my limited viewing of Barkov
Exactly my point really. Majority of this forums users come from NA, so naturally their viewing time of Barkov is really limited, namely the WJC, where he had lackluster performance.

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03-02-2013, 05:51 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Thing that somewhat still baffles me is that Barkov is absolutely demolishing all past records of Finnish draft eligible players. He is the most promising prospect right after Selanne. Still, people are doubting him, and placing prospects like Drouin and MacKinnon above him. Sure, they have been dominant, but so have many other Canadian prospects been lately, but what they have accomplished isn't anything special really. But what Barkov is doing is something HISTORICAL that hasn't been witnessed before.

Still, people around here are saying Drouin for 1st AINEC etc. etc.
Drafting isn't about accomplishments. It's mostly about projection. That's why many people still have Mackinnon above Drouin, despite the latter having a better season. That's why Petan isn't considered a top 10 pick. For NHL GMs, what's important isn't what Barkov is doing now, but what they think he'll be doing at the NHL level.

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03-02-2013, 06:46 PM
  #111
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I've seen both quite a bit, and like them both a lot. I'd take MacKinnon over Barkov, but not by much.

Barkov is super solid, with very good size, an extremely high hockey IQ (both offensively and defensively), and smooth if un-explosive skating. Not a lot of flash to his game, but he's always involved in the play and making an impact. I can see him being a solid #1 C in the NHL, but I'm not sure I see a big time star. MacKinnon has more of that star quality, the explosive speed and super quick hands. Competes really hard too, is strong on the puck and good in traffic, and has a nice shot. His hockey IQ isn't as high as Barkov's, but he's still a smart player, and I see him being more dynamic and tough to stop 1 on 1 in the NHL.

So yeah, it's close for me, but I'd go with the higher upside pick in MacKinnon. I see them both being #1 Cs.

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03-03-2013, 12:16 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Well skating is the obvious, but Barkov has the size advantage. They both project to be 1st line centers. I don't see a clear cut favourite here, I can see a team going either way come draft day. Am I out to lunch? Is there any significant separation between the two? We know NHL teams love size down the middle...would you be shocked if Barkov went ahead of Mac?


For the record, I don't have adequate viewings of these two great prospects to form a conclusive opinion of my own...but when I look at these guys on paper I have to give the (slight) edge to Barkov.
Barkov is going to be a very good player but other than size, Nathan is probably better is almost every department.

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03-03-2013, 12:20 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Thing that somewhat still baffles me is that Barkov is absolutely demolishing all past records of Finnish draft eligible players. He is the most promising prospect right after Selanne. Still, people are doubting him, and placing prospects like Drouin and MacKinnon above him. Sure, they have been dominant, but so have many other Canadian prospects been lately, but what they have accomplished isn't anything special really. But what Barkov is doing is something HISTORICAL that hasn't been witnessed before.

Still, people around here are saying Drouin for 1st AINEC etc. etc.
To be fair the Finnish elite league isn't in the top 3 in the world and the Swiss league might even be ahead of it in 4th.

Barkov is a great player but Nathan is simply a slightly better one, in almost everyone scouts and NHL personnel opinion.

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03-03-2013, 01:36 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Barkov is going to be a very good player but other than size, Nathan is probably better is almost every department.
I really doubt Mackinnon will be as good defensively on the NHL level on defense as Barkov

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03-03-2013, 02:25 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
To be fair the Finnish elite league isn't in the top 3 in the world and the Swiss league might even be ahead of it in 4th.
No, you're complitely wrong. NLA the swiss league might have as good top teams as FEL but it only means Zurich and Bern. Some of the teams might have better top players but thats it. NLA has the rule that they can have 5 foreign players in their teams per team after that rest of the players have to be swiss nationality. the depth of swiss players can't match FEL players and most of NLA team players would be finland tier 2 players and some of them might have hard time to crack in to tier 2 league team.

This is my ranks for the best leagues in the world:

NHL

KHL

SEL
FEL

AHL

NLA
Czech extraleague
Allsvenskan

Austrian league

Not sure where i slot VHL as i have limited views from that league. I doubt that Hardyvan have seen many FEL or NLA games to make such an judgement. The difference between SEL and FEL is for example minimal. Swedish player Mika Hannula stated that FEL is much faster and more physical but SEL is slightly better league in terms of skill but the difference is very small.

NLA game is pretty soft compared to other european league hockey especially to FEL which is the most physical and fast paced game in europe. NLA, Czech extraleague and allsvenskan(swedish 2nd tier league) are very close which each other.


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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Barkov is going to be a very good player but other than size, Nathan is probably better is almost every department.
So you're claiming that MacKinnon is an better two-way player, defensively, as effective PK player, higher hockeyIQ? Barkov is already best two-way player of FEL and he played most of the season against NHL-lockout players and looked better than most of those players. People forget that fact that Barkov actualy played against some NHLers and outplayed them. Mikko Koivu who is #1 C in a NHL team actualy looked worse than this 17 year old kid when they was matched against. I don't say that Barkov is better than Mikko Koivu but if he is able to put better performance and take over the game against established NHL-star who competed being only 17 it is impressive and not only offensively but defensively aswell. Hard to see that MacKinnon has faced such an competition.

I have only seen MacKinnon at WJC and he disappointed me. I won't say whos the better because i lack knowledge from
MacKinnon but i believe that Hardyvan lacks alot of knowledge from Barkov and actually from all european hockey. People says that MacKinnon didn't impress because he had limited icetime and no PP. Barkov did have limited icetime and no PP at WJC in alberta as 16 year old and looked impressive. From my views Barkov at 16 year old at WJC>17 year old MacKinnon at WJC. Barkov has closed the gap all year with MacKinnon and might be ahead him at the draft.

Barkov at WJC as 16 year old in small rink at alberta:



Dragan Umicevic the swedish serbian hockey player and linemate of Barkov who played with Anze Kopitar when he was similar age as Barkov is now stated that Barkov is most talented hockey player he has ever played with including Kopitar.

I think that Barkov has ceiling of an updated version of Anze Kopitar which is an ridiculous hockey player. Not saying that he reaches it but his ceiling.

90point, perennial selke nominee as good offensively and defensively. Can play at all situations, team player who blocks shots even when his team is leading with multiple goals. Plays and shows example to everyone by playing like coach wants. He buys everything what coach sells to him even the little things and shows example to other team mates. There is no players in FEL who makes as less mistakes as Barkov. When you watch him you'll notice how well he blocks the passing lanes, defends infront of goal and take space away from opponent. All the little things are done.

I will expect Barkov to win multiple selkes if he developes at this rate and i'm not even kidding. Barkov is an extremely effective takeaway machine and he rarely loses the puck. There is no major weakness in his game, his skating is his weakest area but it is developing with huge leaps all the time. After next summer he could be very good skater very well. He is 17 year old and 6'3 210ish so it's expected that his skating isn't ready.

Offensively he is destroying every record in FEL for draft eligible player. At this rate he is topping Olli Jokinen's old record by 10 points despite Jokinen was nearly 1 year older and played one dimensional game. Barkov is doing that all by playing best two-way game in entire league. Even when majority season was played with NHL-lockout players...

I'm not comparing Barkov to other players of this draft but Barkov might have the best draft year ever in europe for draft eligible player think about that and he is one of the youngest prospects for the draft. If he did that in the AHL people in north america would talk him as generational talent.

My point of this post is that between these 2 there is no clear cut favourite or other one is better in all department than other etc. The marginals are minimal in the top. MacKinnon was clearly the favourite for #1 at the beginning of the season. Barkov and others have closed the gap. I only see MacKinnon as better skater and Barkov as bigger and stronger all the other are arguable and there is no big difference.


Last edited by thomast: 03-03-2013 at 05:15 AM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 03:15 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Well of course he does. He plays against 16-19 year old defensemen
Despite that he has a different playing style than Barkov. Comparing MacKinnon to other top prospects through recent years he's shown an ability to assert himself on the play that is quite uncommon, in large part due to his elite skating. Barkov may have that in him when he is playing against players of the same age, but that remains to be seen. So far he's proven to be the ultimate team player, which isn't a bad thing at all.

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03-03-2013, 08:19 AM
  #117
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Dragan Umicevic the swedish serbian hockey player and linemate of Barkov who played with Anze Kopitar when he was similar age as Barkov is now stated that Barkov is most talented hockey player he has ever played with including Kopitar.
Got a link for this?

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03-03-2013, 08:23 AM
  #118
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People are getting too carried away with all these 90-point this and that or even PPG this and that and that's for every prospect. In the last two seasons there have been a grand 18 players that scored over 80 points. 9 each year.

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03-03-2013, 08:41 AM
  #119
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People are getting too carried away with all these 90-point this and that or even PPG this and that and that's for every prospect. In the last two seasons there have been a grand 18 players that scored over 80 points. 9 each year.
His upside and ceiling if he is more talented than Kopitar who is about an PPG player. No one has stated that he will become one but he has chance to be about 90 pt player. He has all the tools and destroyed basically all draft eligible records in FEL and he is very late born... With right enviroment and good players he has potential to be one. Barkov is effective goal scorer and playmaker. He is very versatile in the offensive zone.


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03-03-2013, 09:01 AM
  #120
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Also Jannik Hansen and Kurtis Foster were very impressed and they both played with him.

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03-03-2013, 09:48 AM
  #121
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Got a link for this?
I don't know does this work outside of Finland. But this is a radio interview where Dragan Umisevic say those things.

http://areena.yle.fi/radio/1850744

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03-03-2013, 09:55 AM
  #122
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I have Drouin and Barkov as the better players right now

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03-03-2013, 10:09 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SaunaMajuri View Post
I don't know does this work outside of Finland. But this is a radio interview where Dragan Umisevic say those things.

http://areena.yle.fi/radio/1850744
Any swedish speaker here? I'd like a translation of it. The link is working outside Finland btw.

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03-03-2013, 10:32 AM
  #124
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Any swedish speaker here? I'd like a translation of it. The link is working outside Finland btw.
Dragan says its a lot of fun playing with a player as good as Barkov. He said that when he retires he will probably look back and remember how he played with him(before he became a star). He also talks about how he played with Anze Kopitar in Södertälje when Kopitar was a year older and Dragan actually hold Barkov as the better player when u take age into considering. He is 100% sure Barkov will become something special...

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03-03-2013, 11:17 AM
  #125
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Canadian passport
LOL. that's definitely a good one.

not really sure why but NA's are often given the edge above the euro's. been trying to figure that out for years.



is it do with the rink size? the different style of play? or is it something else?

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