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Old
03-03-2013, 02:48 AM
  #276
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holy overreaction! please guys, dont come to hfboards when you're drunk! lol we didnt get eliminated in the playoffs, we just lost a regular season game.

we're still 7-0-3 the last 10 games. we're fine.

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03-03-2013, 03:00 AM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Luongo has countless bad games and a recent 8 spot, yet the world still thinks he is top goalie.

Quick has given up 5 this year, Brodeur has spotted a couple 5 goal games.

Rinne put up a 5 goal game.

These things happen. People need to stop micro analyzing every game and realize its every goalie who has a game or two like this already this year.
Luongo is crap. He's had GREAT teams in front of him and can't win when it counts. Give Roy the same team as Luongo, and they'd have won at least one cup by now.

Quick won the cup, he performed when it counted. I Hope Price does too.

Brodeur. Really. You bring him into this conversation.

Rinne has won nothing. Same as Price.

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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Look at the bright side fellows- Carey made the game memorable, tense, and thrilling.
I like this. You can come to dinner at mine any time.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
funny thing is that just as many, if not more, fans complained and criticized Roy while he was in town, even thought he "proved he could win" in his very first year...

of all the things to complain about, and i'm sure many around here feel I complain about too much stuff as it is, complaining about Price seems pretty silly at this stage.
Bollocks. Roy won the cup for us in 86, at age 20. That is enough for me. Don't compare Price to Roy, it's absurd. Watch his OT Vs Rangers in that cup run. Price has never, ever, done what Patty did in those 7 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There was actually a fair bit of controversy when he wasn't nominated. He played far more games than almost anyone in the league and still put up great numbers. So he wasn't barely in the top five, he was arguably top three.

As for how is he a top five now as opposed to then? Well Tim Thomas is gone for one thing. Secondly he's continued to log big minutes and still put up solid numbers even on a terrible team. I'm not sure how you think this guy is 'barely top five'...

So far here are the save percentage leaders for the season with goalies who've played 10 games or more:

1 Craig Anderson 15gp .952
2 Corey Crawford 11gp .941
3 Kari Lehtonen 12gp .934
4 Antti Niemi 15gp .930
5 Tuukka Rask 13gp .930
6 James Reimer 10gp .929
7 Viktor Fasth 11gp .926
8 Carey Price 16gp .924
9 Ben Scrivens 13gp .923
10 Niklas Backstrom 14gp .919


No Lundquvist, no Rinne, no Quick... Most of these guys are one offs and many will just fall off soon. Are any of those guys better? No.

No, Price hasn't won a Vezina... but he consistently puts up solid numbers. Jonathan Quick had one great year but unlike Price, he has years where he just doesn't show up. What you get with Price is a consistent goalie who (despite the occassional bad game) is predictable and consistent. I'd much prefer a goalie who's going to consistently be good than have one who has a great year and then an off one and then a great one...

Price is a top three goalie and arguably the best in the league right now.
You are correct. CP is a top goalie in the NHL, and we are damn lucky to have him. But I want wins under pressure. I want stolen games.

LG you are cup driven, you should know this is what counts. There is reason to be concerned about Price's ability to do this.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Except that the further back we go, the more it helps Price. As I showed you, even including Quick's dream season if we go back to 2010... Quick doesn't even make the top 10.

Quick's season is far more of an outlier than Price's is. He's more consistent than Quick is.

Quick is slightly older, started the NHL later and has been on better teams. That's going to change going forward.

Quick has had one brilliant season and that's about it. I don't see how you can bet on him over Price going forward, esp since his back surgery and subsequent current subpar year. Outside that one season Price is better.

His very first year he throws down a shutout in a game 7 vs Boston. In 2011 he had a save percentage of .934 and we took Tim Thomas and the Bruins who were eventual cup winners to a 7 game OT. I'm not sure why you don't trust this guy...

We've had mostly terrible teams in front of him. Wait until we actually ice some good ones.
No I don't trust Price when it comes to the playoffs, specifically in OT. I trust Patty Roy in OT. Ken Dryden in OT. Jaques Plante in OT.

Price let in OT goals that lost us the series against Boston. Were they impossible to stop? Probably. I don't care. I want Price to make impossible stops in the playoffs, and I don't see him doing that, yet.

Sorry LG, but end of story.

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03-03-2013, 08:11 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
he is elite right now, let's stop pretending that leading the league in wins for a team that was pegged as a lottery contender, 1 season removed from a dead-last in the conference finish icing 2 rookies in their top-9 and starting the season without their top (or 2nd best) dman, reflects anything but that...
I usually agree with you 99.999999999% of the time so it's actually pretty great to see that we can disagree on something...

But you have to stop with this ""pegged as a lottery contender" thing. Nobody can really predict what's going to happen. Nobody is ever right at predicting but it doesn't make the teams that plays the game worst because the supposed "experts" aren't seeing as it will happen. Sure, everyboyd knew Boston would be great and they are. So they got that one right. But aside from going with player for player and so on, you have to take into account injuries....and how the team buys a system and so on (see Ottawa). So nobody knew Toronto would be up there...everybody was forgetting Kadri ever existed and yet...he's now the second coming of Gretzky. Does it make him less good because no one saw him? Same for a team. And in a league based on parity, it's also impossible to put teams in their place (except for a few...like Columbus....or Edmonton, though even Edmonton was SUPPOSED to NOW be good....but we'll wait another year till they will NOW be good...but we'll wait another year...and so on)

And again, with everything being said, if we play the hypothetical game, Rangers win their 2 games in hand and we're just 7 points from being out of the playoffs. So if that happens, are we really THAT good? Or are we just lucky that we will only have 48 games to play this year 'cause 7 points in a 82-game season isn't too big...but other teams might have a tougher time to rack up in the standings based on the short season and based on the fact that nobody plays the west, making it inevitable for teams to be eliminated 'cause they are always playing against each other. I know...it's for everybody. Everybody plays with the same rules. But we are discussing the greatness of this team and its goalie.

Just that now that long ago we were being reminded..."But we are 1st in the conference" (obviously forgetting the 4-5 games in hand Boston had and we're going to win) now, it's "But we are close to 1st"...but then Ottawa, Toronto and Jersey aren't too far away so in the end...we might very well be close to not having a playoff spot, probably saved by the short season and/or the terrible weakness of the other teams. Having said that, we are doing better than most had hoped. Yet, with a new coach, it's often what happens. I know...it doesn't apply to Calgary...nothing ever does....

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Old
03-03-2013, 08:53 AM
  #279
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Sorry thought it said "When was the last time Price stole a game from us? "

Bad night it happens.

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03-03-2013, 11:01 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No I don't trust Price when it comes to the playoffs, specifically in OT. I trust Patty Roy in OT. Ken Dryden in OT. Jaques Plante in OT.

Price let in OT goals that lost us the series against Boston. Were they impossible to stop? Probably. I don't care. I want Price to make impossible stops in the playoffs, and I don't see him doing that, yet.

Sorry LG, but end of story.
Flawless logic. Truly QED worthy arguments.

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03-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #281
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Flawless logic. Truly QED worthy arguments.
Haha yeah statements like that completely forget that Price absolutely STOLE the first two games of that series. Look it up, he was incredible and we just scored on the opportunities we got. Now he was lacking in games 3 and 4 but I thought he was solid in game 5, 6 and 7. We just had a team short manned that could not pot a goal in OT to save its life. Price nearly outduelled the eventual Conn Smythe winner. Give Price a team with a defensive shell like the Blues and he could do a lot more things. We're solid but our D is undersized and held together by Therrien's coaching. Stats say Price has been great although I say he's merely been good this season. I am waiting for a statement game from him too but luckily we don't need those just to sneak into the playoffs as it is.

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03-03-2013, 11:12 AM
  #282
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I've never liked the guy, win or lose. Goalies have bad nights for sure but Price looked like he was on another planet last night. Just a complete stone with no movement. He's been a headcase since the start of his professional career. Sure he plays well enough most of the time but he hardly ever plays great and almost never steals a game. Best player on the team I think not. Patches and Subban are far more important.

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03-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #283
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My only issue with price is that sometime he looks like he goes to sleep, especially in low shot games. Brodeur was also on a low shot team but managed to stay focused all game. This is a purely psychological issue he needs to work on.

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03-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #284
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On a Carey Price scouting report, these things should be on his "weaknesses list":
1. Will go out of net to play the puck and risk turning it over. Exhibit A: Rich Peverley's goal. Exhibit B: Crosby nearly stealing it in the 3/2/2013 game.
2. Will let soft goals in from his right. See, that -zinsky guy on Ottawa, Matt Cooke.

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03-03-2013, 01:18 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
You are correct. CP is a top goalie in the NHL, and we are damn lucky to have him. But I want wins under pressure. I want stolen games.

LG you are cup driven, you should know this is what counts. There is reason to be concerned about Price's ability to do this.
So you wouldn't be happy with Lundqvist then?

I mean come on man... every goalie (except Roy and Dryden) goes years without winning the cup and then (hopefully) someday they do. It doesn't make sense to label him a bum if he doesn't win.
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No I don't trust Price when it comes to the playoffs, specifically in OT. I trust Patty Roy in OT. Ken Dryden in OT. Jaques Plante in OT.
Plante, Dryden, Roy... all were great goalies but dude all had much better teams in front of them. If you're in OT, you need your team to score right? Who was going to do this for us? Scott Gomez? I don't know about you but I'd rather have Guy Lafleur or Maurice Richard helping me out.

And like I said... there's not going to be another Patrick Roy. And even Roy had Robinson and Chelios helping him out. There's no way Roy would take the teams we've had over the past couple of years to a cup.
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Price let in OT goals that lost us the series against Boston. Were they impossible to stop? Probably. I don't care. I want Price to make impossible stops in the playoffs, and I don't see him doing that, yet.

Sorry LG, but end of story.
He was spectacular. He's given us many reasons to believe, I don't see why you continue to doubt. We didn't lose because of him man, we lost in spite of him. You keep asking for reasons to believe... I haven't seen any reasons to doubt.

He lost to Tim Thomas who had a better team in front of him. Price had a Vezina like year and we STILL only managed 93 points but Price took it to 7 games OT and the Bruins went on to win the cup. So yeah he lost but Roy lost to Hasek... Plante lost to Sawchuk... Dryden lost to... okay well Dryden never lost to anybody but that's beside the point. There's no shame in losing to Thomas and we easily could've won if some of our guys could actually score.

What goalie who is around today would you rather have?
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
On a Carey Price scouting report, these things should be on his "weaknesses list":
1. Will go out of net to play the puck and risk turning it over. Exhibit A: Rich Peverley's goal. Exhibit B: Crosby nearly stealing it in the 3/2/2013 game.
He's a great puck handler... no reason to let one bad game colour this.
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
My only issue with price is that sometime he looks like he goes to sleep, especially in low shot games. Brodeur was also on a low shot team but managed to stay focused all game. This is a purely psychological issue he needs to work on.
They used to say this about Roy all the time. They said he looked 'Dopey'. And for a couple of years folks started to talk about wanting to trade him... then he won his 2nd cup.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 03-03-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 01:19 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
On a Carey Price scouting report, these things should be on his "weaknesses list":
1. Will go out of net to play the puck and risk turning it over. Exhibit A: Rich Peverley's goal. Exhibit B: Crosby nearly stealing it in the 3/2/2013 game.
2. Will let soft goals in from his right. See, that -zinsky guy on Ottawa, Matt Cooke.
Youve flip flopped on which side is "weak", mixing up what side goals are scored on. All in order to try and support your ridiculous conclusion. The goals you just used as examples were scored on different sides and the zinsky goal was easily the weakest. Both Cooke goals were screens. Not to mention the fact that you had to go back over a season to get an example of a puck handling turnover resulting in a goal.

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03-03-2013, 02:03 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So you wouldn't be happy with Lundqvist then?

I mean come on man... every goalie (except Roy and Dryden) goes years without winning the cup and then (hopefully) someday they do. It doesn't make sense to label him a bum if he doesn't win.
Has anyone done that ?

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03-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Has anyone done that ?
Folks are saying they don't have faith... they don't trust him in the playoffs... so yeah they kind of are saying he's a bum.

What goalie would you rather have going for you? I mean Lundqvist has been great, ditto with Rinne but they've never won and they've played with better teams. Again, I don't see anyone who I'd rather have leading my team now.

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03-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Youve flip flopped on which side is "weak", mixing up what side goals are scored on. All in order to try and support your ridiculous conclusion. The goals you just used as examples were scored on different sides and the zinsky goal was easily the weakest. Both Cooke goals were screens. Not to mention the fact that you had to go back over a season to get an example of a puck handling turnover resulting in a goal.
You're the one messing up which side.

The one at 8:29 was indeed on Price's right.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...=sb:highlights


Oh, I didn't say it had to be an actual turnover, just close to one. Crosby nearly picked his pocket yesterday. That's a fact.

I don't hate Price and don't mind him starting. But these little things need to be mopped up because he's been in the league long enough to fix these ******* weak plays.

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03-03-2013, 02:26 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Folks are saying they don't have faith... they don't trust him in the playoffs... so yeah they kind of are saying he's a bum.

What goalie would you rather have going for you? I mean Lundqvist has been great, ditto with Rinne but they've never won and they've played with better teams. Again, I don't see anyone who I'd rather have leading my team now.
I don't know if Lundqvist has played with better teams that much. Last year yes, but that's it. The rangers weren't very good the past few years.

Same for Nashville, they have zero offense. If anything there's a ton of pressure on Rinne to be perfect. And he plays in the stronger western conference.

Now, as I said in the past, there is 3 ways to look at it. Past performances, current play and potential. You seem to give a lot more weight to potential. That's ok. I'm not saying Price sucks and I'm not saying i'd rather have other goalies. I'm merely trying to say that Price has a lot to prove still. I think there's a good chance that he will do it, but it could also never happen. It's possible he never takes the next step. I think the contract he got was very premature but whatever, I can see why Bergevin did it.

As I said, by the end of the year, we will have a much much better idea of where Price stands. There are no excuses anymore. Price is 26, he has a long term deal, he has a backup who everyone knows is the backup, the team is playing great hockey in front of him, he has experience. There are no excuse for playing average. He needs to step up his game to that level he reached in 2010-11, and maybe even exceed it.

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03-03-2013, 02:34 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
You're the one messing up which side.

The one at 8:29 was indeed on Price's right.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...=sb:highlights


Oh, I didn't say it had to be an actual turnover, just close to one. Crosby nearly picked his pocket yesterday. That's a fact.

I don't hate Price and don't mind him starting. But these little things need to be mopped up because he's been in the league long enough to fix these ******* weak plays.
Yeah I know both of Cooke's goals were on his right but the Ottawa goal was on his left. His glove has been shaky the past week, but the Cooke goals were screens. Not unstoppable by any means but screens for sure.

You tried to prove this point in the GDT as well and were confusing the sides and different goals there as well bringing up Hortons winning goals in the playoffs, both of which were on the left side. One of the goals was a rebound where someone thought it would be good to let Horton sit in the crease all on his own, and the second was a perfect deflection by Halpern's shinpads just past the tip of price's glove.

I dont think you hate Price but you are reaching to prove your point. It was just a bad game no real trends to be taken from it.

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03-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #292
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The lack of goalie knowledge around here is terribly funny.

No one discussing the fundamentals of the position, just saying rhetorical sports quotes like, "he can't win", or that he shouldn't be letting in weak goals at this point?

Hilarious stuff, keep it coming.

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03-03-2013, 02:51 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Yeah I know both of Cooke's goals were on his right but the Ottawa goal was on his left. His glove has been shaky the past week, but the Cooke goals were screens. Not unstoppable by any means but screens for sure.

You tried to prove this point in the GDT as well and were confusing the sides and different goals there as well bringing up Hortons winning goals in the playoffs, both of which were on the left side. One of the goals was a rebound where someone thought it would be good to let Horton sit in the crease all on his own, and the second was a perfect deflection by Halpern's shinpads just past the tip of price's glove.

I dont think you hate Price but you are reaching to prove your point. It was just a bad game no real trends to be taken from it.
I messed up my left with his right.

Dzurizynski's goal was from a shot on his right side. I only remember the game 7 goal from Horton, not the other one.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...,2,271&lang=en

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03-03-2013, 02:52 PM
  #294
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Elite goalies don't allow five plus goals.

What's the equivalent of a Rucinsky, Kovalenko and Thibault today?


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03-03-2013, 02:55 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't know if Lundqvist has played with better teams that much. Last year yes, but that's it. The rangers weren't very good the past few years.

Same for Nashville, they have zero offense. If anything there's a ton of pressure on Rinne to be perfect. And he plays in the stronger western conference.
The Rangers have guys who can score. The Preds had Suter and Weber. Price has had.. nobody really.
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Now, as I said in the past, there is 3 ways to look at it. Past performances, current play and potential. You seem to give a lot more weight to potential. That's ok. I'm not saying Price sucks and I'm not saying i'd rather have other goalies. I'm merely trying to say that Price has a lot to prove still. I think there's a good chance that he will do it, but it could also never happen. It's possible he never takes the next step. I think the contract he got was very premature but whatever, I can see why Bergevin did it.

As I said, by the end of the year, we will have a much much better idea of where Price stands. There are no excuses anymore. Price is 26, he has a long term deal, he has a backup who everyone knows is the backup, the team is playing great hockey in front of him, he has experience. There are no excuse for playing average. He needs to step up his game to that level he reached in 2010-11, and maybe even exceed it.
What excuses are you talking about?

He's really only started three playoffs. The first he's 20 years old and wins a round in a Game 7 shutout and then loses in the 2nd.

The 2nd time we're totally outplayed. Nobody could save us from the beatdown. That's not an excuse it's a fact.

The 3rd time he's spectacular. We lose in game 7 but it's in spite of him.

Meanwhile he's racked up a great resume that I've already shown you. There's no reason to doubt him at this point. I'm not sure why you're talking about excuses... he doesn't need any. Unless you're upset about the fact that he didn't lead us to the 2nd round last year because we missed the playoffs...

Also, I'm not sure what it is you're demanding from the guy. Does he have to win a cup this year? If he doesn't then we can't trust him? I mean what exactly does the guy have to do to win some faith?

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03-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
I messed up my left with his right.

Dzurizynski's goal was from a shot on his right side. I only remember the game 7 goal from Horton, not the other one.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...,2,271&lang=en
Yeah I get what you are saying now but he just whiffed on the Dzurizynski goal, Cookes last night were screens. Like i said before not unstoppable but I have no idea how hard it is to pick up a pick through your own guys. I just assume it isnt easy to stop a puck you cant see.

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03-03-2013, 03:02 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The Rangers have guys who can score. The Preds had Suter and Weber. Price has had.. nobody really.

What excuses are you talking about?

He's really only started three playoffs. The first he's 20 years old and wins a round in a Game 7 shutout and then loses in the 2nd.

The 2nd time we're totally outplayed. Nobody could save us from the beatdown. That's not an excuse it's a fact.

The 3rd time he's spectacular. We lose in game 7 but it's in spite of him.

Meanwhile he's racked up a great resume that I've already shown you. There's no reason to doubt him at this point. I'm not sure why you're talking about excuses... he doesn't need any. Unless you're upset about the fact that he didn't lead us to the 2nd round last year because we missed the playoffs...

Also, I'm not sure what it is you're demanding from the guy. Does he have to win a cup this year? If he doesn't then we can't trust him? I mean what exactly does the guy have to do to win some faith?
There has to be people old enough here to remember "Roy can't beat Boston"? Probably not, they just remember the Cups.

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03-03-2013, 03:03 PM
  #298
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There has to be people old enough here to remember "Roy can't beat Boston"? Probably not, they just remember the Cups.
I remember. And I remember that silly goal from center ice from Cam Neely too. When Roy was on he was on... but he wasn't the most consistent goalie.

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03-03-2013, 03:09 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The Rangers have guys who can score. The Preds had Suter and Weber. Price has had.. nobody really.

What excuses are you talking about?

He's really only started three playoffs. The first he's 20 years old and wins a round in a Game 7 shutout and then loses in the 2nd.

The 2nd time we're totally outplayed. Nobody could save us from the beatdown. That's not an excuse it's a fact.

The 3rd time he's spectacular. We lose in game 7 but it's in spite of him.

Meanwhile he's racked up a great resume that I've already shown you. There's no reason to doubt him at this point. I'm not sure why you're talking about excuses... he doesn't need any. Unless you're upset about the fact that he didn't lead us to the 2nd round last year because we missed the playoffs...

Also, I'm not sure what it is you're demanding from the guy. Does he have to win a cup this year? If he doesn't then we can't trust him? I mean what exactly does the guy have to do to win some faith?
I wasn't talking about the playoffs necessarily. I was talking about his whole body of work. I realize you were talking to someone else who was talking about the playoffs though.

But in the playoffs I think you exaggerate his performance in 2010-11.. he lost after we led that series 3-1. He wasn't THAT good. He lost every OT so... Not saying he was crap but it's not like we were completely outmatched by the bruins. It was very close, both teams played about equally and Price was outdueled by Thomas in the end.

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03-03-2013, 03:10 PM
  #300
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
The lack of goalie knowledge around here is terribly funny.

No one discussing the fundamentals of the position, just saying rhetorical sports quotes like, "he can't win", or that he shouldn't be letting in weak goals at this point?

Hilarious stuff, keep it coming.
In the end....only the end result matters. Unless you fall in the category of, for example, Gilbert Perreault and Marcel Dionne might be the very 2 best to not have won a Cup. Doens't make them less good....but there's unfortunately always a "but they didn't win it all" asterisk beside their names. Everybody recognizes their fundamentals....but they just never be mentionned as a cup winner. Ray Bourque would have indeed be mentionned as one of the top d-man even without a cup but with it...it just confirms it even more.

Fundamentals and technique are all great. Didn't stop Hasek from being mentioned as one of the top goalie to have played the game. Didn't stop Thomas at winning a Cup. In the end, he will have to bring his fundamentals, technique and so on to a level where he will either win.....or either take an average team on his shoulders and make them really great and especially in the playoffs. The way Halak has done in our best finish since 1993.

I believe it's preferable to be known as "just a good goalie that has won 1 or 2 Cups than "the greatest goalie that never won a NHL Cup"....but that might be just me. Thing is in the end, that's what players are really playing for. Some great playoffs with preferable the hardware at the end. Of course, there's more than 1 goalie in a team, yet, NOBODY refrains themselves from blaming everybody in the team. Every single player gets it at one point or another. Just strange that this goalie here should be free from all criticisms. Yes, the position is the hardest. And yes we should be extremely cautious with our blames. I believe that this board has been extremely cautious as he rarely gets it. But he has to gets it at one point or another and yesterday was CLEARLY it. And he will be great in some more games where we WILL mention. Not only us in HF but all those fans voting for their stars...reason why Price always gets this Molson Cup. So he gets his share of praises. Should be getting his share of blames when it is due though.

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