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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

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03-03-2013, 01:15 AM
  #1001
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
a rivet-type deal wouldn't even be close to enough...

people need to remember that Gorges has far exceeded expectations from the time we got our hands on him, and that before MaxPac was picked, Esposito, Macmillan, Blum, Plante, Gillies, Ellerby, Hamill, Hickey, Cherapanov and Riley Nash all had their names called up...

as good as Timmins is, how much do you want to bet that at least 1 of those players was rated higher on his draft sheet!!!

the glorious rivet trade could easily have ended up with us getting:

Esposito - Wishart (was their 1st pick the previous year, obviously much more highly prized by them at the time than Gorges... wouldn't have included him for Rivet unless Gainey had really "fleeced" them at the time... ahhh hindsight)


point being that a depth defensive dman (who was an undrafted free agent signing) and a first pick in the bottom half of a draft (2007 was a pretty deep first round, even with 12-13 top6/top4 NHLers coming out of it, despite that nasty list of "misses" above) is not something to be viewed as a great return for an established talent/contributor like markov.

that type of deal for Markov would be a complete fail unless we got extremmely lucky as we did with how the rivet trade turned out
A Josh Gorges and a mid round pick in this year's draft?

Done.

Calgary's first?

Done.

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:25 AM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Calgary's GM is living in fantasy land, so your criticism is actually a supporting argument.
Calgary's 1st was in play for a 22 years old ROR.

But that's a'right, we'll get Calgary's 1st right ? I mean, you just ask them very nicely and they'll jump on the occasion of trading a top 5 overall pick, hell! if we're nice enough they may be ok with kaberle only...



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Old
03-03-2013, 01:33 AM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
A Josh Gorges and a mid round pick in this year's draft?

Done.

Calgary's first?

Done.
I think Markov 2013 is worth more than Rivet 2007.

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:33 AM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
A Josh Gorges and a mid round pick in this year's draft?

Done.

Calgary's first?

Done.
? not sure if you're serious?

Markov >>> Gorges now and for the next 2-3 years, both in terms of impact and ability to replace.

a mid first round pick this year wouldn't even come close to equalizing.

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:35 AM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think Markov 2013 is worth more than Rivet 2007.
that much is so beyond obvious I doubt it even worth mentioning...


a mid-round pick and a 6-7 defensive dman would get laughed at by MB if that is what some team was offering, i hope...

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:03 AM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that much is so beyond obvious I doubt it even worth mentioning...


a mid-round pick and a 6-7 defensive dman would get laughed at by MB if that is what some team was offering, i hope...
Anyhow I think Markov is a moot point.

I could see Cole waiving his NTC as he has no ties to the city, but not Markov, certainly not to go to a Dallas-type bottom feeder. Taxes are a big deal, but if he goes to Calgary he only saves 0.50-1.00 million dollars or so (unlike Cole who has 2.5 years of salary to look forward to), and he'll lose a lot more as his stats will likely drop.

With that said I would want a 1st and a 2nd from a bottom dweller (e.g. Calgary), a first and a good prospect from a middle dweller (e.g. Ottawa), and two 1sts or a first and a great prospect from a contender (e.g. Detroit). Detroit is a team that could be a good fit for Markov, that he would actually waive his NTC for, but I'm not sure what they have.

Gionta, Ryder, Moen, Kaberle, are our only true selling chips now that Bourque is concussed.

At the 2014 deadline we might be looking to sell Josh Gorges if Tinordi and Pateryn keep improving.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:17 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Anyhow I think Markov is a moot point.

I could see Cole waiving his NTC as he has no ties to the city, but not Markov, certainly not to go to a Dallas-type bottom feeder. Taxes are a big deal, but if he goes to Calgary he only saves 0.50-1.00 million dollars or so (unlike Cole who has 2.5 years of salary to look forward to), and he'll lose a lot more as his stats will likely drop.

With that said I would want a 1st and a 2nd from a bottom dweller (e.g. Calgary), a first and a good prospect from a middle dweller (e.g. Ottawa), and two 1sts or a first and a great prospect from a contender (e.g. Detroit). Detroit is a team that could be a good fit for Markov, that he would actually waive his NTC for, but I'm not sure what they have.

Gionta, Ryder, Moen, Kaberle, are our only true selling chips now that Bourque is concussed.

At the 2014 deadline we might be looking to sell Josh Gorges if Tinordi and Pateryn keep improving.

You do ? seriously ? no way! Cole would never waive his NTC!


not a single NHL game played yet and in a year we'll be ready to "sell" our 4th D ? come on man, what kind of fantasy world do you live in ? Markov to Calgary, Patteryn / Tinordi to replace Gorges, sell almost every vet while we're pretty much guaranteed a P.O. spot...

wake up dude.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:20 AM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
You do ? seriously ? no way! Cole would never waive his NTC!


not a single NHL game played yet and in a year we'll be ready to "sell" our 4th D ? come on man, what kind of fantasy world do you live in ? Markov to Calgary, Patteryn / Tinordi to replace Gorges, sell almost every vet while we're pretty much guaranteed a P.O. spot...

wake up dude.
Try to make five posts in a row without insults.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:48 AM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Try to make five posts in a row without insults.
try to make a single post with a resemblance of realism..

Markov to Cal for their first, seriously ?
selling pretty much every vet while were in the PO, seriously ?
selling Gorges next season, seriously ?

when you talk about such scenarios as if it would make sense, saying you're living off a fantasy isnt an insult, it's the plain truth.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:52 AM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
try to make a single post with a resemblance of realism..

Markov to Cal for their first, seriously ?
selling pretty much every vet while were in the PO, seriously ?
selling Gorges next season, seriously ?

when you talk about such scenarios as if it would make sense, saying you're living off a fantasy isnt an insult, it's the plain truth.
You failed.

You are a troll and completely incapable of civilized discussion. We all get pissed sometimes, but you are pissed and angry all the time.

I now add you to the ignore list.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:55 AM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You failed.

You are a troll and completely incapable of civilized discussion. We all get pissed sometimes, but you are pissed and angry all the time.

I now add you to the ignore list.
To be fair, your posts have a tendency to piss people off.

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Old
03-03-2013, 03:06 AM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
To be fair, your posts have a tendency to piss people off.
I know I've pissed off a lot of people by arguing for the players during the lockout (I was right), and for suggesting Bergevin blow up half the team this year (I was wrong).

Posters who get angry at dissenting opinions are free to put me on their ignore list. I'm sure several have.

I'm 29. I began surfing the net at around 15. I've posted on forums dealing with video games, politics, science fiction, physics, climate change, religion, nutrition & health... I know a lot of people get *enraged* when somebody else disagrees with them. I'm over that now.

I'm down with dissenting opinions, just not with rudeness and infantile insults. The former is constructive engagement, the latter is a waste of time.

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Old
03-03-2013, 03:12 AM
  #1013
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haha you guys are cute... =]

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Old
03-03-2013, 03:21 AM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You failed.

You are a troll and completely incapable of civilized discussion. We all get pissed sometimes, but you are pissed and angry all the time.

I now add you to the ignore list.
couldnt be more wrong.

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Old
03-03-2013, 03:27 AM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
To be fair, your posts have a tendency to piss people off.
Maybe for ya, not for me. No point in being pissed over something said by someone you don't know (irl) and that you will probably never meet.

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03-03-2013, 03:33 AM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Anyhow I think Markov is a moot point.

I could see Cole waiving his NTC as he has no ties to the city, but not Markov, certainly not to go to a Dallas-type bottom feeder. Taxes are a big deal, but if he goes to Calgary he only saves 0.50-1.00 million dollars or so (unlike Cole who has 2.5 years of salary to look forward to), and he'll lose a lot more as his stats will likely drop.

With that said I would want a 1st and a 2nd from a bottom dweller (e.g. Calgary), a first and a good prospect from a middle dweller (e.g. Ottawa), and two 1sts or a first and a great prospect from a contender (e.g. Detroit). Detroit is a team that could be a good fit for Markov, that he would actually waive his NTC for, but I'm not sure what they have.

Gionta, Ryder, Moen, Kaberle, are our only true selling chips now that Bourque is concussed.

At the 2014 deadline we might be looking to sell Josh Gorges if Tinordi and Pateryn keep improving.
Calgary isn't necessarily a bottom dweller, and they can't exactly give us a second we already own. They'll bounce back and be around the 11-15 mark come seasons end most likely.

Not sure I'd consider Detroit a contender this year, either. They're a bubble team who will get bounced in the first round most likely should they make it.

Ultimately, very few teams who aren't in clear playoff contention will want Markov, though. And he's far more important to this team should we be in playoff contention than any of the assets likely to come back our way.

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:13 AM
  #1017
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This thread is a massive fail. Trading Markov for a mid 1st and Josh Gorges. You wouldn't be GM for very long with moves like those. We got lucky in the Rivet deal, we made a no-brainer move and it ending working out well, however, it is not a blueprint for success. Trading markov for anything other than a semi proven prospect(s) and firsts would be a huge fail.

The point is moot because MB is not dumb enough to do such a stupid move.

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:34 AM
  #1018
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You failed.

You are a troll and completely incapable of civilized discussion. We all get pissed sometimes, but you are pissed and angry all the time.

I now add you to the ignore list.
Done deal.

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:41 AM
  #1019
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
To be fair, your posts have a tendency to piss people off.
DA debates fair and square. He's never rude. I support him.

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:57 AM
  #1020
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I've always liked Gorges, but I'm starting to think he isn't going to complete his 6 year deal with Montreal in Montreal. I can see him being traded in some future deal, but not this year. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens sometime over the next 2 seasons though.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:38 AM
  #1021
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
? not sure if you're serious?

Markov >>> Gorges now and for the next 2-3 years, both in terms of impact and ability to replace.

a mid first round pick this year wouldn't even come close to equalizing.
Mid first in this draft will be awesome. 2003 for example with a 14th here are some of the picks left from 14-30:

Seabrook
Parise
Getzlaff
Kesler
M Richards
Corey Perry

The are tons of others who are NHL regulars as well.

Dude... it's well worth going after that esp if a young player comes along with it.

3 years from now who the hell knows how Markov will be playing or if he'll be playing at all...

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:41 AM
  #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think Markov 2013 is worth more than Rivet 2007.
I think a first in this draft is worth more than a first in 2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You failed.

You are a troll and completely incapable of civilized discussion. We all get pissed sometimes, but you are pissed and angry all the time.

I now add you to the ignore list.
Not that I want to say I told you so but... I told you so. He's a troll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
To be fair, your posts have a tendency to piss people off.
Promotes discussion... and doesn't justify trolling.
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haha you guys are cute... =]
Go try out your sorry pickup lines somewhere else.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:22 PM
  #1023
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think a first in this draft is worth more than a first in 2007.

Not that I want to say I told you so but... I told you so. He's a troll.

Promotes discussion... and doesn't justify trolling.

Go try out your sorry pickup lines somewhere else.
too bad it doesnt have an ounce of realism.

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Old
03-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #1024
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I love how this thread wakes up every time the Canadiens lose a game, even if they are on a 12 game point streak.

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03-03-2013, 02:38 PM
  #1025
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What an idiotic thread that continues despite the team's current status in the standing.

Maybe all of this long term vision would have been MB's plans for this year had things fallen apart again this year the way they did last year. But when things are as the way they are, ownership's mindset changes to playoff revenue, something they missed out on last year and only one round in 2011. The best Bergevin can do is balance out this year (ownerships' new expectations) to his long term vision, hence the types of trades like Ryder and Toharski that don't really hurt this year but open up possibilities for next year and beyond.

This thread is being pushed forward by people who have no clue about profit driven corporations and their desire for revenue. They also have shareholders to answer to. When there is money to be made, there is never any justification to simply piss it away because of some philosophy to the contrary that doesn't really guarantee success.

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