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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #876
rockjngo
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Desharnais is so easy to get knocked down and virtually no strength along the boards.

I dare everyone to pay attention to him, he falls 20 times a game. No strength on legs, no center of gravity.

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03-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Easy to understand. Look at his size, his status as a non draftee, and his birth certificate. All the great ingredients to bash someone on this board.
Quoted For Truth.

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03-03-2013, 11:01 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Desharnais is so easy to get knocked down and virtually no strength along the boards.

I dare everyone to pay attention to him, he falls 20 times a game. No strength on legs, no center of gravity.
That is why he'll next sign a 4+M$ contract, or why I'd refuse to give him a contract over 3M$.

But that's it.

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03-03-2013, 11:02 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post

I dare everyone to pay attention to him, he falls 20 times a game. No strength on legs, no center of gravity.[/SIZE]
Yeah, he's small. We all know that already.

Hartnell falls 20 times a game as well, but he's not as small.

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03-03-2013, 11:02 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Easy to understand. Look at his size, his status as a non draftee, and his birth certificate. All the great ingredients to bash someone on this board.
I'd trade Desharnais for MSL.

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03-03-2013, 11:04 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Still, he's an underpaid player who produces points.

He produces points and provides a francophone media presence. Brownie points for that. We need more guys like him, to provide PR to keep the French media satisfied.
Screw the French media, who cares if he's French English or Italian I don't care but unfortunately the French media does...screw them!

Montreal needs to do what's best for the team and in my eyes Montreal is better off trading Desharnais only because they already have Plekanec who's the PERFECT second line centre.
Montreal futre number 1 C is Galchenyuk and Eller is a big centre starting to fill his role very well as a third line centre.

It leaves no room for Desharnais...

Trade him a 1st to move up in the draft to get a big D-man or winger

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03-03-2013, 11:05 AM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Screw the French media, who cares if he's French English or Italian I don't care but unfortunately the French media does...screw them!

Montreal needs to do what's best for the team and in my eyes Montreal is better off trading Desharnais only because they already have Plekanec who's the PERFECT second line centre.
Montreal futre number 1 C is Galchenyuk and Eller is a big centre starting to fill his role very well as a third line centre.

It leaves no room for Desharnais...

Trade him a 1st to move up in the draft to get a big D-man or winger

I agree that we might not have room for DD in the near future, but at the moment there is no point in trading him, since his cap hit is minuscule for what he brings to the table. Besides, I suspect his trade value is fairly low around the league. He's worth more to Montreal than other teams.

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03-03-2013, 11:06 AM
  #883
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Keep this on topic and refrain from making personal attacks, please.

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03-03-2013, 11:07 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
When a poster's sole reason for existence on theses boards to cherry-pick stats in order to make a player worst than he is, that's called disguised bashing.
Not so sure about the term 'disguised bashing', it doesn't have much ring to it, but I'd agree on the whole. That being said, if someone is really cherry picking stats, it can be argued against and proven wrong with stats. That's my problem with this thread. Lots of people freaking out, none using their heads to argue logically.

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03-03-2013, 11:08 AM
  #885
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Seriously, I nearly wish DD to be traded and to play great somewhere else.

Welcome to Montreal : The only place where underpaid local players get bashed.
Because Eller, Subban, Markov, Emelin, Diaz, Price, Cole, Gionta, Moen, Budaj, Gorges, Plekanec, Armstrong don't get bashed regularly?

Things people get bashed for on this board and elsewhere, in both English and French:

-Being European (If there's a conspiracy against Desharnais for being Quebecois, how do you explain the mass of posters who insist Eller is "soft" despite being one of the the strongest hitters on the team this year?)

-Being short

-Not fighting

-Not scoring 30 goals a season.

-Not being Patrick Roy

-Not winning the cup every year

-Not being 6'5"

-Having one bad game

-Admitting that you have played badly.

-Being old

-Getting injured

-Showing emotion

-Throwing a paper airplane

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03-03-2013, 11:08 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
When a poster's sole reason for existence on theses boards to cherry-pick stats in order to make a player worst than he is, that's called disguised bashing.
I called it analyzing a player....and all aspect of his game. Most fans look at how many points a player make and forget about the rest of his game.

I

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03-03-2013, 11:09 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I agree that we might not have room for DD in the near future, but at the moment there is no point in trading him, since his cap hit is minuscule for what he brings to the table. Besides, I suspect his trade value is fairly low around the league. He's worth more to Montreal than other teams.
Problem is that he's up for a new contract next year. So they should move him at the draft

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03-03-2013, 11:13 AM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Problem is that he's up for a new contract next year. So they should move him at the draft
I suppose. But then what type of value do you get for an unsigned player?

Not sure we would get much for an under-sized RFA center. I could be wrong, but I seriously don't see other teams lining up to give us much of value for DD, especially if he is unsigned.

Our best hope is that he agrees to a reasonable contract next year, and we move from there.

Galchenyuk will be our #1 Center, but I'm not sure how fast. Having DD as an insurance policy isn't a bad idea.

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03-03-2013, 11:16 AM
  #889
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I will have no problem with Desharnais if his next contract is between 2 and 3.3 millions for 2 or 3 years. Having a decent french speaking player is a must for the Habs in order to respect a big part of theirs fans and the history of the team. The only trade of Desharnais that i would be fine is a trade to get Drouin at the draft with a package of DD+ first round pick+Beaulieu+ something.


Last edited by Mario Lemieux fan 66: 03-03-2013 at 11:23 AM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 11:23 AM
  #890
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Quoted For Truth.
I don't agree with that at all. Almost all our players get criticized at some point or another.

Hell, Eller catches a lot of flack, and he's a drafted Dane who has no size issues.
Price gets a ton of heat, and again he's an Anglo draftee with size.
Pacioretty was criticized at the beginning of the year, an American draft pick with size, and pretty much our entire roster has been criticized.

It comes with the territory. We are on a Habs message board after all. The main focus is usually on the strengths and the weaknesses of our players.

We seriously don't need anyone bringing in the "ptits gars de chez nous" aspect to it. It's stupid and below us, IMO. And besides, for every person that is childish enough to use his ethnicity as a negative factor, there are people who use it for the exact opposite reasons, which is an outdated ideology. It's 2013, the team's focus is on winning games, not politics.

We are (mostly) adults that can debate the merits of players, and ignore un-important factors like birth certificates.

And if there are a couple idiots bashing him, or any other player unfairly due to their birth location, then ignore them, because they are clearly not mature enough to discuss hockey without playing into useless debates that are irrelevant to the game.

End rant!

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03-03-2013, 11:26 AM
  #891
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ET LE BUT -- that one's for you

Quote:
Because Eller, Subban, Markov, Emelin, Diaz, Price, Cole, Gionta, Moen, Budaj, Gorges, Plekanec, Armstrong don't get bashed regularly?
Some of it is justified : Eller (hockey sense), Markov (slow), Subban (bad decision in the risk vs. reward factor), Emelin (lack of agility), Price (sometimes a little too slow?), Cole (not here?), Gionta (should't be on a first line anymore... + slowed down + kills offensive plays), Gorges (overpaid for what he can possibly bring, and I really disliked his Subban comments), Plekanec (shouldn't be first line center -- hardly his fault, mind you). I fail to see why Budaj, Armstrong and Diaz are criticized, considering the role they're expected to play, and the other options we have.


Quote:
-Being European (If there's a conspiracy against Desharnais for being Quebecois, how do you explain the mass of posters who insist Eller is "soft" despite being one of the the strongest hitters on the team this year?)
People insists on Eller's softness for a lack of a better argument, and it shouldn't be used as an indicator. Eller lacks the hockey sense to be a topliner, and his decision-making capacities are around average league-wide. But soft? Really? That's more evidence of a problem with the author of the comments than about Lars Eller.

Quote:
-Being short
We should indeed not have too much small players, whether it's on D or on F. And if we're to get bigger, it should probably start with getting rid of Brian Gionta, who takes 4,25M$ more than DD on the capspace.... not to mention being older and all.
Quote:
-Not fighting
That's stupid, unless the player is a 4th liner.

Quote:
-Not scoring 30 goals a season.
That's stupid, unless the player is a 5M/year scoring winger.

Quote:
-Not being Patrick Roy
That's stupid, unless Patrick Roy is concerned by the comments.

Quote:
-Not winning the cup every year
I'm not even getting there.

Quote:
-Not being 6'5"
That's very stupid, especially if Frederick Gauthie is concerned by the comments.

Quote:
-Having one bad game
The worst thing about this? Imaginary bad games. That mostly concerns Carey Price and David Desharnais.

Quote:
-Admitting that you have played badly.
Admitting that you played badly, and play good or better the next game, won't cause a problem. But a player who admits that he plays badly, yet constently repeat the same patterns over and over again, is justified criticism.

Quote:
-Being old
That's a problem, if the age caused the player to slow down and to not play according to his salary.

Quote:
-Getting injured
That was stupid x 2.

Quote:
-Showing emotion
-Throwing a paper airplane
Doing both simultaneously is indeed pretty bad!

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03-03-2013, 11:26 AM
  #892
DDs not undersized
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
It's really not the truth though. Almost all our players get criticized at some point or another.

Hell, Eller catches a lot of flack, and he's a drafted Dane who has no size issues.

Price gets a ton of heat, and again he's an Anglo draftee with size.

Pacioretty was criticized at the beginning of the year (American draft pick with size) and pretty much our entire roster has been criticized.

It comes with the territory. We are on a Habs message board after all. The main focus is usually on the strengths and the weaknesses of our players.

We seriously don't need anyone bringing in the "ptits gars de chez nous" aspect to it. It's stupid and below us, IMO.

We are (mostly) adults that can debate the merits of players, and ignore un-important factors like birth certificates.

And if there are a couple idiots bashing him, or any other player unfairly due to their birth location, then ignore them, because they are clearly not mature enough to discuss hockey without playing into useless debates that are irrelevant to the game.

End rant!
I fail to see a thread about Eller or Pacioretty that would be filled with bashers on a daily basis since the beginning of the season. Price has one thread about him but there's basically no basher in it except the OP.

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03-03-2013, 11:27 AM
  #893
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I fail to see a thread about Eller or Pacioretty that would be filled with bashers on a daily basis since the beginning of the season. Price has one thread about him but there's basically no basher in it except the OP.
Were you not here a week ago? The Eller talk has died down finally, but it took until this week.

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03-03-2013, 11:29 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Were you not here a week ago? The Eller talk has died down finally, but it took until this week.
I missed that thread... Do you have a link? Is there 900 messages in it?

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03-03-2013, 11:29 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
I called it analyzing a player....and all aspect of his game. Most fans look at how many points a player make and forget about the rest of his game.

I
A proper analysis would include the PDO... And the effects this one has on DD's number so far. Mainly that, by the stats you're bringing up, DD looks worst than he actually is.

But, when you're a mono....

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03-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Were you not here a week ago? The Eller talk has died down finally, but it took until this week.
Besides, this thread is about his contract as well, and has been bumped a lot by people showing positives in DD's game.

The hyper sensitivity about Desharnais is weird. (As is some of the senseless bashing)

He's a good player, with strong points and weak points, like most hockey players. His case is curious since he's up for contract renewal, and since he's relatively old for his 2nd year in the league, people will keep a closer eye on him.

Par for the course on a hockey message board. We can't talk about Youppi all day, right? Or.....can we????? hmm.....

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03-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
I missed that thread... Do you have a link? Is there 900 messages in it?
there was one last week, which had a bunch of eller bashers pop in as soon as he had his first bad game in weeks. It quieted down real quick

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03-03-2013, 11:32 AM
  #898
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Some of it is justified : Eller (hockey sense), Markov (slow), Subban (bad decision in the risk vs. reward factor), Emelin (lack of agility), Price (sometimes a little too slow?), Cole (not here?), Gionta (should't be on a first line anymore... + slowed down + kills offensive plays), Gorges (overpaid for what he can possibly bring, and I really disliked his Subban comments), Plekanec (shouldn't be first line center -- hardly his fault, mind you). I fail to see why Budaj, Armstrong and Diaz are criticized, considering the role they're expected to play, and the other options we have.
Agreed, a lot of it is justified, but often exaggerated. The same can be said about Desharnais. I don't agree with the Desharnais bashing after the last game, since he was good until OT, but it's a valid concern that he is a below average 4 on 4 player and can be a liability defensively. Does that mean he should be traded for a bag of pucks? I hope not, but it means he does have limits and it's why he's the one most likely to be made redundant by Galchenyuk in a few years.

Some of the Desharnais bashing goes overboard, I don't know how anyone at this point can say he's not a "real" NHLer, but there are flaws in his game and it should effect his usage and value going forward. Just like I never want to see Plekanec on a shootout, I don't want to see Desharnais used as a first liner on 4 on 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Besides, this thread is about his contract as well, and has been bumped a lot by people showing positives in DD's game.

The hyper sensitivity about Desharnais is weird. (As is some of the senseless bashing)

He's a good player, with strong points and weak points, like most hockey players. His case is curious since he's up for contract renewal, and since he's relatively old for his 2nd year in the league, people will keep a closer eye on him.

Par for the course on a hockey message board. We can't talk about Youppi all day, right? Or.....can we????? hmm.....
I agree with all of this.

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03-03-2013, 11:38 AM
  #899
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
A proper analysis would include the PDO... And the effects this one has on DD's number so far. Mainly that, by the stats you're bringing up, DD looks worst than he actually is.

But, when you're a mono....
Then counter those numbers with more fancy stats to prove him wrong.

What is his PDO right now anyways? His shooting $ is decent at the moment (17%)

edit: Found this:

8 2012-2013 Season DAVIDDESHARNAIS MTL 8.97-889-979

979 is somewhat low, a 9% on ice shooting rate is not great.

I'm not sure if it's been updated lately or not. However it does leave some room for improvement, not a ton though. 1000 would be fine for DD.

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03-03-2013, 11:39 AM
  #900
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Besides, this thread is about his contract as well, and has been bumped a lot by people showing positives in DD's game.

The hyper sensitivity about Desharnais is weird. (As is some of the senseless bashing)

He's a good player, with strong points and weak points, like most hockey players. His case is curious since he's up for contract renewal, and since he's relatively old for his 2nd year in the league, people will keep a closer eye on him.

Par for the course on a hockey message board. We can't talk about Youppi all day, right? Or.....can we????? hmm.....
His case is curious for this : It's his 2nd complete season only in the NHL. In his first complete season, he dominated and put up 60 points, while helping Pacioretty and Cole to achieve career seasons. Every other fanbase would be thrilled to have such a player on their team, especially since he's a local player, especially considering his personal story (undrafted, had to prove himself at every level since ECHL, etc.).

Actually, the Montreal fanbase IS thrilled to have him, as expected. But hey, this is the Habs HFBoards. And this is where his case becomes curious : Where did he find that many bashers, here, specifically? Why are people not more excited about having such an offensive force, a local player, who cost almost nothing, with a cinderella story, on the team? Why?

I've been here for long enough. This story repeats itself again and again. Let's not pretend we don't know why.

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