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Old
03-02-2013, 12:48 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
According to Beacon's analysis of the Whale game, Chris was invisible after he scored that PP goal which was basically a gift from Pyett.

So, there's that.
In Kreider's defense, it was a lovely tap in against a suicidal Rick DiPietro

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03-02-2013, 01:13 PM
  #302
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Oh brother how CK has fallen . From projections of 40-40 to this !!!

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03-02-2013, 02:03 PM
  #303
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Hopefully we can get an update on all of Chris' reps in the gym moving forward so that everyone can update their hourly "bust trackers".

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03-02-2013, 02:19 PM
  #304
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This. ^ The kid needs to find his game in an environment where is coaches trust him in all situations. Some people have mentioned Torts coaching to keep his job . Well this is true in all professional sports but more magnified in NY market where results are more a scrutinized ( which is odd as NYR have been a mis managed mediocre results club for decades )

He's on the first line with two veterans, Newbury and Segal. They moved Mash down even though when he was on that line, it looked really good. The reason is obviously that the team wants to develop Kreider.

He's in a good position on that line in Hartford. He's also playing on the PP and the PK.

It's not that he wasn't working hard in the NHL, it's that he wasn't sure what to do half the time, so this led to people feeling like he's not hustling. AHL is the place for him right now. Nothing wrong with that.

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03-03-2013, 09:33 AM
  #305
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03-03-2013, 10:12 AM
  #306
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Well that video is better than his on ice performance . Here's to hoping something clicks with him and he starts playing hockey

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03-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #307
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Something somewhere went wrong with CK. Hoping it gets straightened out. He looked lifeless and looks really lifeless.

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03-03-2013, 11:10 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Something somewhere went wrong with CK. Hoping it gets straightened out. He looked lifeless and looks really lifeless.
I think the lack of a real training camp is one of the reasons Kreider hasn't looked his best this year. I mean, yeah he did attend the Whale camp, but looking at the way they played the first weeks of the season that camp can't have been very good.

Kreids is a guy who has to rely on his power and speed to be effective and if the physical foundation isn't laid during the offseason he is going to struggle.

He'll probably be back sometime this season and I expect better from him, but I don't think we'll see the real Kreider before next season. He needs a real Torts camp.

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03-03-2013, 11:19 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Nash isn't a pest the way Callahan and Hagelin are. He doesn't have the motor that those two have.

Nash uses his body to protect the puck.

Kreider isn't there yet, and really never has done that consistently. He's thrives more on opportunity on the rush. And when the puck is in control by his team he will go to the net.

Like it or hate it, its the way he's always played.
Nash is indeed a pest. He is always on top of the opposition just like Hagelin and Callahan. You seem to be under the mistaken notion that a large player cannot be a pest. A pest does not have to be small in stature.

Nash is all over the ice using his skating abilities. That is what Kreider did last year. He hasn't done it this year. This is an undeniable, inarguable fact. When he starts doing that again he will get plenty of ice time. Until then, he simply doesn't deserve it.

Too many fans seem to think that because a player has abilities we should all sit around and wait for him to try his hardest. It doesn't work that way in sports or in life.

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03-03-2013, 11:22 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
I think the lack of a real training camp is one of the reasons Kreider hasn't looked his best this year. I mean, yeah he did attend the Whale camp, but looking at the way they played the first weeks of the season that camp can't have been very good.

Kreids is a guy who has to rely on his power and speed to be effective and if the physical foundation isn't laid during the offseason he is going to struggle.

He'll probably be back sometime this season and I expect better from him, but I don't think we'll see the real Kreider before next season. He needs a real Torts camp.
Maybe, but who knows now if Torts will even give him a better chance in camp. I fear for his confidence, being shuffled between the A and big club every now and then.

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03-03-2013, 11:28 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Maybe, but who knows now if Torts will even give him a better chance in camp. I fear for his confidence, being shuffled between the A and big club every now and then.
If his confidence can't handle spending a portion of his rookie season in the minors, he'll never make it in the NHL. He has been given chances and not really done anything with them so he is better off getting real ice time in the A.

I'm convinced we'll see a very different Kreider after he's attended a real training camp. And whatever one might think of Torts, he's never been hesitant to give the kids a go in camp.

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03-03-2013, 11:34 AM
  #312
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I like the fact that Kreider is being used on the PK and PP. I feel a lot of Kreider's NHL success and reaching his potential hinges on how good he can be in those departments. I think he will have okay even strength production, so he'll need special teams to elevate himself.

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03-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #313
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Camp is no excuse . The guy is a gym rat and his physique shows it . Don't flame me but I'm not convinced of his hockey game . In open hockey where no one defends and it's breakaways and all offense I bet he's awesome . In WJC he was good in the slot and PP and that kind of hockey in general. in college same thing good PP player great if he got behind a Defense and went one on one . He needs to get better at carrying th puck , retrieving th puck , moving his feet . Hitting people, cycling all things about the NHL game where everyone else is pretty big and fast .
He shoots well , he looks good off th rush . His play in traffic or otherwise " actual hockey " looks contrived , confused , constipated .
I think he will get there at some point to some level of NHL compete t player but I'm leaning towards a Jason Chimera not a James Neal or Erik Cole

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03-03-2013, 11:38 AM
  #314
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People are surprised? This is what happens when you use first round picks on mentally raw "physical specimens." They take a long time to develop, if they develop at all. But the kid is only 21/22. He's still got time. Unfortunately, the Rangers could really use a player now. But them's the breaks when you draft brawn over brains.

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03-03-2013, 11:42 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Camp is no excuse . The guy is a gym rat and his physique shows it . Don't flame me but I'm not convinced of his hockey game . In open hockey where no one defends and it's breakaways and all offense I bet he's awesome . In WJC he was good in the slot and PP and that kind of hockey in general. in college same thing good PP player great if he got behind a Defense and went one on one . He needs to get better at carrying th puck , retrieving th puck , moving his feet . Hitting people, cycling all things about the NHL game where everyone else is pretty big and fast .
He shoots well , he looks good off th rush . His play in traffic or otherwise " actual hockey " looks contrived , confused , constipated .
I think he will get there at some point to some level of NHL compete t player but I'm leaning towards a Jason Chimera not a James Neal or Erik Cole
I think this is pretty fair. But even if camp isn't an excuse, it is a plausible explanation to at least some of his struggles. Being a gym rat and exremely fit (which he is) doesn't mean he has the training foundation that would benefit him the best. If you compare his skating this year with how he looked when he played in the playoffs , he looks half a step behind. He doesn't have that edge anymore, and I think that's what's cuasing him to look "confused". he doesn't know how to respond because he's put / puts himself in situations he's not used to.

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03-03-2013, 11:46 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
People are surprised? This is what happens when you use first round picks on mentally raw "physical specimens." They take a long time to develop, if they develop at all. But the kid is only 21/22. He's still got time. Unfortunately, the Rangers could really use a player now. But them's the breaks when you draft brawn over brains.
Sadly I think you are right . This is why I make the Chimera comparison . JC is a physical beast who skates like the wind isn't the smartest or most skilled player . He does do well at PK and stealing pucks and creating chances, stretching defenses and going hard to the net . He wasn't a first rounder but possess a similar frame and stride as our CK . I think CK has a better quicker release on his shot . If CK turnns into a serviceable player than its a victory but the 30-30 plus upside as of now is looking really bad .

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03-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #317
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Kreider got the snot knocked out of him dancing around the ice.
Not physically or mentally prepared to play in the NHL
See ya next season.
Not criticizing him for staying in college, but if he signs two years ago and gets into the Ranger system he would be a much better player.

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03-03-2013, 12:35 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
People are surprised? This is what happens when you use first round picks on mentally raw "physical specimens." They take a long time to develop, if they develop at all. But the kid is only 21/22. He's still got time. Unfortunately, the Rangers could really use a player now. But them's the breaks when you draft brawn over brains.
This has been the trend the past 4 years. Kreider, McIlrath, Miller and Skjei.

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03-03-2013, 12:43 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
People are surprised? This is what happens when you use first round picks on mentally raw "physical specimens." They take a long time to develop, if they develop at all. But the kid is only 21/22. He's still got time. Unfortunately, the Rangers could really use a player now. But them's the breaks when you draft brawn over brains.
Using the word specimen on this Rangers board is bad idea

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11748 - Hugh Jessiman, Huge Specimen

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03-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Using the word specimen on this Rangers board is bad idea

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=11748 - Hugh Jessiman, Huge Specimen
I've been here for 7 years. I'm aware of the connotation. That was the point.

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03-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
Kreider got the snot knocked out of him dancing around the ice.
Not physically or mentally prepared to play in the NHL
See ya next season.
Not criticizing him for staying in college, but if he signs two years ago and gets into the Ranger system he would be a much better player.
I wouldn't go that far. Who knows what he would have happened if he left school early.

Like Sting has been saying, this is a player who was very raw when drafted. The key was not to get too excited because he has elite speed and terrific size. That will only get you so far in hockey. This game we all love is alot more cerebral than ya think. Then you have to go out and do it every game.

It's not even 4 years yet since he was drafted. This is a transition year for Kreider in every sense of the word. Anyone throwing out lifetime assessments at this point are just not patient people, and need to...relax.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This has been the trend the past 4 years. Kreider, McIlrath, Miller and Skjei.
Trend. Disturbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I've been here for 7 years. I'm aware of the connotation. That was the point.


Took the organization 6 years to get Jessiman was a dud.

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03-03-2013, 01:32 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
Kreider got the snot knocked out of him dancing around the ice.
Not physically or mentally prepared to play in the NHL
See ya next season.
Not criticizing him for staying in college, but if he signs two years ago and gets into the Ranger system he would be a much better player.
Anisimov got pasted like this once a week and always got up and made plays . Difference being AA was a heady player who thought the game in all 3 zones well. TORTS , assessment of CK is spot on kid has a lot to learn a out being a pro and the game . I always feared he was mentally weak when he repeatedly felt he wasn't ready for pro hockey and wanted the sheltered environs of college. A degree is nice but lets be real if you dream of being a pro hockey player what better route to take then pro hockey. He's two years away if he's ready at all kid is showing bust potential . Reminds me a lot o a Ryan Leaf or Drew Henson . Can't miss size and appeal but missing something .

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03-03-2013, 01:52 PM
  #323
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Anisimov got pasted like this once a week and always got up and made plays . Difference being AA was a heady player who thought the game in all 3 zones well. TORTS , assessment of CK is spot on kid has a lot to learn a out being a pro and the game . I always feared he was mentally weak when he repeatedly felt he wasn't ready for pro hockey and wanted the sheltered environs of college. A degree is nice but lets be real if you dream of being a pro hockey player what better route to take then pro hockey. He's two years away if he's ready at all kid is showing bust potential . Reminds me a lot o a Ryan Leaf or Drew Henson . Can't miss size and appeal but missing something .
Imagine a 18,19,20 yr old not wanting to jump into his potential careers highest level so that he can learn, live and grow first. That after winning Championships on various levels that most his age will never experience.

Leaf and Henson? Come on......

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03-03-2013, 02:05 PM
  #324
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I wouldn't go that far. Who knows what he would have happened if he left school early.

Like Sting has been saying, this is a player who was very raw when drafted. The key was not to get too excited because he has elite speed and terrific size. That will only get you so far in hockey. This game we all love is alot more cerebral than ya think. Then you have to go out and do it every game.

It's not even 4 years yet since he was drafted. This is a transition year for Kreider in every sense of the word. Anyone throwing out lifetime assessments at this point are just not patient people, and need to...relax.
Thank you for being sensible. It's a rarity around these parts.

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03-03-2013, 02:08 PM
  #325
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I don't think theres anything wrong with playing on a good college team like bc and go pro from there. Mcdonagh and stepan among others have done it and have been successful. Kid just needs some minor league seasoning and hell be fine. Kreider is a quiet kid. Maybe he needs a good fight with someone to get the juices going.

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