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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:43 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I don't agree with that at all. Almost all our players get criticized at some point or another.

Hell, Eller catches a lot of flack, and he's a drafted Dane who has no size issues.
Price gets a ton of heat, and again he's an Anglo draftee with size.
Pacioretty was criticized at the beginning of the year, an American draft pick with size, and pretty much our entire roster has been criticized.
Eller rightfully gets lots of flack for his lack of hockey sense (comparatively speaking -- no hockey sense problem for a third liner, but you'd expect a guy who's considered by some people a candidate for a 1st line C spot), and for provoking more useless, stupid and dangerous icing calls in 5 games than a player would in an entire season.

Price gets criticized for not winning games alone and for, sometimes, committing a little to fast in one direction (all the while being a big goalie who isn't the best at recovery), and for not being traded instead of Halak. First and third points are respectively dumb (how a goalie is supposed to win a game when its team score 5 goals?) and stupid. Somewhat right on the 2nd point though; but Price is not Roy, and is not Hasek either. But those are the two best netminders ever (according to a lot of knowledgeable people, and to not-so-knowledgeable people who are interested in those things, like, the Top-40 goalie rankings of the History of Hockey board, which I was part of, by the way). If he ends up being a Curtis Joseph, he'll have a much better career than 98% of the current goalies in the NHL at the moment. The 2% being possibly Lundqvist.

Pacioretty was criticized for being not-very-good, in a slump, and snakebitten at the beginning of the season. That was a fact more than criticism, mind you. He righted the ship since.

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03-03-2013, 11:43 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
His case is curious for this : It's his 2nd complete season only in the NHL. In his first complete season, he dominated and put up 60 points, while helping Pacioretty and Cole to achieve career seasons. Every other fanbase would be thrilled to have such a player on their team, especially since he's a local player, especially considering his personal story (undrafted, had to prove himself at every level since ECHL, etc.).

Actually, the Montreal fanbase IS thrilled to have him, as expected. But hey, this is the Habs HFBoards. And this is where his case becomes curious : Where did he find that many bashers, here, specifically? Why are people not more excited about having such an offensive force, a local player, who cost almost nothing, with a cinderella story, on the team? Why?

I've been here for long enough. This story repeats itself again and again. Let's not pretend we don't know why.
There may be some who go out of their way to bash him because he is a francophone , just like there are just as likely to be some that go out of their way to protect him for the same reason. Problem is that these two parties feed into each other and escalate it. Some of us just want to have rational debate. Language topics don't interest me in the least. At least, not in regards to hockey.

and here is the link you requested: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...350589&page=35

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03-03-2013, 11:46 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
His case is curious for this : It's his 2nd complete season only in the NHL. In his first complete season, he dominated and put up 60 points, while helping Pacioretty and Cole to achieve career seasons. Every other fanbase would be thrilled to have such a player on their team, especially since he's a local player, especially considering his personal story (undrafted, had to prove himself at every level since ECHL, etc.).

Actually, the Montreal fanbase IS thrilled to have him, as expected. But hey, this is the Habs HFBoards. And this is where his case becomes curious : Where did he find that many bashers, here, specifically? Why are people not more excited about having such an offensive force, a local player, who cost almost nothing, with a cinderella story, on the team? Why?

I've been here for long enough. This story repeats itself again and again. Let's not pretend we don't know why.
He did have a great season, I dare anyone to say other wise. In fact, I don't think anyone can say otherwise. There are factors in his great season that have been discussed (such as his relatively easy ice time, PP time etc), but that's already been discussed ad nauseam.

However you are leaving out/dismissing many of the factors that are being discussed. Such as his current on ice play, which does leave much to be desired, especially defensively. Offensively he's been pretty good.

But to get to your point, I have yet to see one person bash him for being a Francophone to be honest. I have seen a ton of people use this as a blanket reason to dismiss others, but I have honestly yet to see if as a reason why he should be traded. And if I missed it, and someone did say it, they are idiots. Ignore them, don't play into the idiocy. However it is important to point that there is the same idiocy going on at the opposite end of the debate. Neither, nor are constructive IMO.

We should probably get back to speaking about Desharnais now, to be honest.

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03-03-2013, 11:47 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
He did have a great season, I dare anyone to say other wise. In fact, I don't think anyone can say otherwise. There are factors in his great season that have been discussed (such as his relatively easy ice time, PP time etc), but that's already been discussed ad nauseam.

However you are leaving out/dismissing many of the factors that are being discussed. Such as his current on ice play, which does leave much to be desired, especially defensively. Offensively he's been pretty good.

But to get to your point, I have yet to see one person bash him for being a Francophone to be honest. I have seen a ton of people use this as a blanket reason to dismiss others, but I have honestly yet to see if as a reason why he should be traded. And if I missed it, and someone did say it, they are idiots. Ignore them, don't play into the idiocy.

We should probably get back to speaking about Desharnais now, to be honest.
I hardly expect anyone to ever straight up and say they dislike him for being a francophone. And that post wouldn't last very long here, either.

But I agree, I'd rather discuss the hockey being played by desharnais, rather than his height or spoken tongue.

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03-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #905
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Agreed, a lot of it is justified, but often exaggerated. The same can be said about Desharnais. I don't agree with the Desharnais bashing after the last game, since he was good until OT, but it's a valid concern that he is a below average 4 on 4 player and can be a liability defensively. Does that mean he should be traded for a bag of pucks? I hope not, but it means he does have limits and it's why he's the one most likely to be made redundant by Galchenyuk in a few years.
I concur that Desharnais shouldn't be the go-to guy at 4 vs 4.

But he isn't, and he's a center, which means he's somewhat decent on faceoffs (48,4% so far) .... So he has to be there at some point. I'd probably use Plekanec and Eller at C before him, though. As far as 4vs4 is concerned.

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03-03-2013, 11:51 AM
  #906
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Eller rightfully gets lots of flack for his lack of hockey sense (comparatively speaking -- no hockey sense problem for a third liner, but you'd expect a guy who's considered by some people a candidate for a 1st line C spot), and for provoking more useless, stupid and dangerous icing calls in 5 games than a player would in an entire season.

Price gets criticized for not winning games alone and for, sometimes, committing a little to fast in one direction (all the while being a big goalie who isn't the best at recovery), and for not being traded instead of Halak. First and third points are respectively dumb (how a goalie is supposed to win a game when its team score 5 goals?) and stupid. Somewhat right on the 2nd point though; but Price is not Roy, and is not Hasek either. But those are the two best netminders ever (according to a lot of knowledgeable people, and to not-so-knowledgeable people who are interested in those things, like, the Top-40 goalie rankings of the History of Hockey board, which I was part of, by the way). If he ends up being a Curtis Joseph, he'll have a much better career than 98% of the current goalies in the NHL at the moment. The 2% being possibly Lundqvist.

Pacioretty was criticized for being not-very-good, in a slump, and snakebitten at the beginning of the season. That was a fact more than criticism, mind you. He righted the ship since.
And to that end Desharnais was criticized for his horrible start, his defensive lapses and his bad penalties (mostly earlier in the year).

His player has been much better of late though, and I still think we need him to perform to maintain our spot in the playoffs, so I am rooting for him.

All par for the course when it comes to a hockey message board. I don't think Desharnais should be immune to criticism. Nor should be be unfairly criticized.

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03-03-2013, 11:56 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Then counter those numbers with more fancy stats to prove him wrong.

What is his PDO right now anyways? His shooting $ is decent at the moment (17%)

edit: Found this:

8 2012-2013 Season DAVIDDESHARNAIS MTL 8.97-889-979

979 is somewhat low, a 9% on ice shooting rate is not great.

I'm not sure if it's been updated lately or not. However it does leave some room for improvement, not a ton though. 1000 would be fine for DD.
A player has basically no control on PDO : besides, a normal PDO for a guy who doesn't shoot at lot would be a little higher than 1000.

Thus, his current PDO means that his stats (things like ES goals against... +/-) are lower than his actualy play.

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03-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
A player has basically no control on PDO : besides, a normal PDO for a guy who doesn't shoot at lot would be a little higher than 1000.

Thus, his current PDO means that his stats (things like ES goals against... +/-) are lower than his actualy play.
Pretty much. I think PDO is supposed to be some sort of abstract for 'luck'. As you put it, it means that DD has played slightly better than his production would indicate.

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03-03-2013, 12:00 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
And to that end Desharnais was criticized for his horrible start, his defensive lapses and his bad penalties (mostly earlier in the year).

His player has been much better of late though, and I still think we need him to perform to maintain our spot in the playoffs, so I am rooting for him.

All par for the course when it comes to a hockey message board. I don't think Desharnais should be immune to criticism. Nor should be be unfairly criticized.
The thing is -- he's the one that gets the most unfair criticism, especially considering his salary.

Like... take the late 3rd period.

DD clearly, but really clearly wins a faceoff (against Sidney Crosby, of all people!), but Pacioretty screws it up with a very lazy icing.

DD then loses (unclear loss, but loss nonetheless, some of it due to the 4 other players) the ensuing faceoff.

The loss wasn't his problem -- should never have had to take the faceoff! And that guy Sid... I heard he's pretty good at faceoffs.

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03-03-2013, 12:01 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
A player has basically no control on PDO : besides, a normal PDO for a guy who doesn't shoot at lot would be a little higher than 1000.

Thus, his current PDO means that his stats (things like ES goals against... +/-) are lower than his actualy play.
I know he has no control, but the PDO is an indication of how "lucky" or not they have been, and can it be sustained.
His PDO was 1020 last year, it's 980 now. Logically, last years was a little high (top of the team), and this year it's a little low.
Like I said, there's room for improvement in the PDO department (basically better luck).

But the point was that you should probably post the counter arguments as opposed to just criticizing those who post stats. That's too easy.

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03-03-2013, 12:02 PM
  #911
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Pretty much. I think PDO is supposed to be some sort of abstract for 'luck'. As you put it, it means that DD has played slightly better than his production would indicate.
Actually, better than +/- and ESGA.

The two stats that thebinne relied on for his "analysis".

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03-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #912
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again, terrific offensively - especially when he plays with north south shooters but easily over-matched along the boards and terrible defensively. we saw the best and worst of him last night. Habs are going to have to make a decision if they can live with that lack of two-way game + size in a top 2 center.
I mostly agree (he is not "easily" over-matched along the boards imo; his compete level is really high and somewhat, partially, compensate his blatant lack of strenght) but based on how Therrien is distributing the TOI, I would replace “top 2 C” with “secondary scoring centre”. Plekanec’s line will always play against the tougher competition (he is a borderline elite 2 ways centre; only a few steps behind guys like Datsyuk and Bergeron imo) but on any given night, our “2nd” or “3rd” line can be our best line.

As long as Desharnais’ contract remains cap friendly, he is a valuable asset: elite vision, high compete level, no bs/low maintenance attitude... just use the “saved” money elsewhere!

Thus far, 3 well balanced lines + a sound 4th seem to be working and I would be willing to move forward with the same recipe.

Just for the record: Desharnais is physically weak even when you compare him to small players like Gionta, Saint-Louis, Bouillon... and he sometimes looks lost once our opponents gain control in our zone. That’s why I would be the first one to wish him luck... with his new team if he is looking for a 4M$+ contract!

Right now, with an alert coach behind the bench, he is a chirurgical deadly weapon. And I can also picture him taking a home town discount.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 03-03-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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03-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #913
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The thing is -- he's the one that gets the most unfair criticism, especially considering his salary.

Like... take the late 3rd period.

DD clearly, but really clearly wins a faceoff (against Sidney Crosby, of all people!), but Pacioretty screws it up with a very lazy icing.

DD then loses (unclear loss, but loss nonetheless, some of it due to the 4 other players) the ensuing faceoff.

The loss wasn't his problem -- should never have had to take the faceoff! And that guy Sid... I heard he's pretty good at faceoffs.
I saw plenty of people crapping on Pacioretty for that weak play last night.

Sometimes we want to see things, know what I mean? I suppose it's a matter of perception.

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03-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #914
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A proper analysis would include the PDO... And the effects this one has on DD's number so far. Mainly that, by the stats you're bringing up, DD looks worst than he actually is.

But, when you're a mono....
Okay...DD's PDO is 979...so he is going to get better with time and was unlucky.
The SV% is above 91% and above for EVERY OTHER FORWARDS ON THE TEAM......but when DD's on the ice, Price suddenly start to suck back to 88.9% (oups Pacioretty is there at 89.7%...sorry)


Nevermind the facts that:

1- DD's got the worst +/- on the team
2- DD is behind White, Eller and Plek in the faceoff
3- DD manage only 4 points in PP while getting top minutes (65m49 in PP)
4- DD was on the ice for 15 goals, 5 more goals than ANY forward on this team
5- DD got 8 minors penalties, leading the team behind White and Prust

These are all things that shows that he is hurting this team.


It's all about luck anyway.

I don't hate DD and i'm not saying he had to be traded or that he sucks.....but he MUST start working on his downside, cause now....he is helping and hurting the team at the same time!!

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03-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #915
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I mostly agree (he is not easily over-matched along the boards imo) but based on how Therrien is distributing the TOI, I would replace “top 2 C” with “secondary scoring centre”. Plekanec’s line will always play against the tougher competition (he is a borderline elite 2 ways centre; only a few steps behind guys like Datsyuk and Bergeron imo) but on any given night, our “2nd” or “3rd” line can be our best line.

As long as Desharnais’ contract remains cap friendly, he is a valuable asset: elite vision, high compete level, no bs/low maintenance attitude... just use the “saved” money elsewhere!

Thus far, 3 well balanced lines + a sound 4th seem to be working and I would be willing to move forward with the same recipe.

Just for the record: Desharnais is physically weak even when you compare him to small players like Gionta, Saint-Louis, Bouillon... and he sometimes looks lost once our opponents gain control in our zone. That’s why I would be the first one to wish him luck... with his new team if he is looking for a 4M$+ contract!

Right now, with an alert coach behind the bench, he is a chirurgical deadly weapon. And I can also picture him taking a home town discount.
My concern with DD isn't that he'll ask for X amount of money, it's that there are only a few center spots available. I had no problem with shifting chuckie to the wing this year because he was really struggling defensively, but next year? I'll take a two way guy over a purely offensive guy who only scores a bit more than the other every day of the week.

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03-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I know he has no control, but the PDO is an indication of how "lucky" or not they have been, and can it be sustained.

His PDO was 1020 last year, it's 980 now. Logically, last years was a little high, and this year he's a little low, but not by a huge margin. But the point was that you should probably post the counter arguments as opposed to just criticizing those who post stats. That's too easy.
My argument was that people doing biased, handpicked or incomplete analysis shouldn't bother with analysis, because some people might take them for granted...

DD arguably overperformed last year. This said, his "normal" PDO should be a little over 1000, and closer to 1020 than to 980.

Take Scott Gomez. He had a really bad PDO. But Gomez "normal" PDO should be a little lower than 1000. Mainly because Gomez, for a guy with a reputation of being a playmaker, really shoots a lot.

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03-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #917
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It's all about luck anyway.
Sarcasm aside, luck does have something to do with it. But as all other fancy stats, PDO is simply one factor. It does not dismiss any other stats, but might explain them better.

I do agree he needs to work on his weakness, specifically his defensive game. That being said, considering his salary and his offensive production, he's far from being our biggest problem at the moment.

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03-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #918
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I saw plenty of people crapping on Pacioretty for that weak play last night.

Sometimes we want to see things, know what I mean? I suppose it's a matter of perception.
Didn't watch the boards yesterday -- I wasn't home.

Just taking a recent example of a faceoff that DD lost... and that he shouldn't have lost.

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03-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #919
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My argument was that people doing biased, handpicked or incomplete analysis shouldn't bother with analysis, because some people might take them for granted...
I guess, but that's a cop out in my mind. Counter them, ya know?

You obviously understand the ins and outs of fancy stats. Educate, don't hate!

(Ok, I'm starting to feel like a self righteous jerk-off, so I'll lay off )

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DD arguably overperformed last year. This said, his "normal" PDO should be a little over 1000, and closer to 1020 than to 980.

Take Scott Gomez. He had a really bad PDO. But Gomez "normal" PDO should be a little lower than 1000. Mainly because Gomez, for a guy with a reputation of being a playmaker, really shoots a lot.
I agree it should be higher than 980, but let's keep in mind that in his 'rookie' year, his PDO was actually 973. So he started with 973. Sky rocketed to a 1022, and now he's back down to a 979.

Is it cyclical? Should use the 2nd year as a bench mark? Or should we look at it objectively and say the answer is probably in the middle? I'd say it's probably the latter, but I've been wrong many times before.

That being said, he's probably due for a little puck luck, and his play has been progressing nicely as of late, so I am happy with his play.

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03-03-2013, 12:12 PM
  #920
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Okay...DD's PDO is 979...so he is going to get better with time and was unlucky.
The SV% is above 91% and above for EVERY OTHER FORWARDS ON THE TEAM......but when DD's on the ice, Price suddenly start to suck back to 88.9% (oups Pacioretty is there at 89.7%...sorry)


Nevermind the facts that:

1- DD's got the worst +/- on the team
2- DD is behind White, Eller and Plek in the faceoff
3- DD manage only 4 points in PP while getting top minutes (65m49 in PP)
4- DD was on the ice for 15 goals, 5 more goals than ANY forward on this team
5- DD got 8 minors penalties, leading the team behind White and Prust

These are all things that shows that he is hurting this team.


It's all about luck anyway.

I don't hate DD and i'm not saying he had to be traded or that he sucks.....but he MUST start working on his downside, cause now....he is helping and hurting the team at the same time!!
For the first half of the season, this makes sense. But why now? He's producing, he's a plus player, and his faceoff % over the second half of the season has been good (over the past 10 games, he's been over 50% 7 times).

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03-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Okay...DD's PDO is 979...so he is going to get better with time and was unlucky.
The SV% is above 91% and above for EVERY OTHER FORWARDS ON THE TEAM......but when DD's on the ice, Price suddenly start to suck back to 88.9% (oups Pacioretty is there at 89.7%...sorry)


Nevermind the facts that:

1- DD's got the worst +/- on the team
2- DD is behind White, Eller and Plek in the faceoff
3- DD manage only 4 points in PP while getting top minutes (65m49 in PP)
4- DD was on the ice for 15 goals, 5 more goals than ANY forward on this team
5- DD got 8 minors penalties, leading the team behind White and Prust
First, HOW CONVENIENT to forget Eric Cole in your analysis. Cole is right there with ,891 -- 983.

That indicates that the whole line was somewhat unlucky.

Then....
1- Bad PDO explains bad +/-. If anything, that's the whole point of the stat.

2- DD is indeed behind Eller, Plek and White in the faceoffs. He's also within the margin of error (3%) of Plekanec, and BARELY out of the margin of error for Eller. He's quite far of Ryan White, but nobody suggests White should take his spot anyways. He's also ahead of Galchenyuk, but I'd rather not make an argument with this.

3 - Points on the PP? Really? Considering that a player can screen the goalie (something DD did quite effectively a few times this year, mind you) or make a pass or win a faceoff, without getting an assist, it's hard to take THAT argument seriously.

4 - See point 1. Besides, your 4th point is basically your 1st point with a different wording...

5 - I concede that the minor penalties are annoying, and one of the reasons why I think we should look for other options, should he ask for more than 3.5 millions. This said, is he that worst than Lars Eller in that regards?


Eller took 1 minor per 2656,8 seconds.
DD took 1 minor per 2630,3 seconds.

With appropriate rounding, both took 1 minor per 44 minutes of IT (43,8 for DD, 44,1 for Eller... or something like that). Considering Eller played roughly 265 minutes and that DD played roughly 350 minutes, both players would, statistically speaking, have the same number of minors, should they had played the same minutes than the other.


Last edited by MXD: 03-03-2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: I just said the opposite of what I meant at bolded.
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03-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #922
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I guess, but that's a cop out in my mind. Counter them, ya know?

You obviously understand the ins and outs of fancy stats. Educate, don't hate!

(Ok, I'm starting to feel like a self righteous jerk-off, so I'll lay off )



I agree it should be higher than 980, but let's keep in mind that in his 'rookie' year, his PDO was actually 973. So he started with 973. Sky rocketed to a 1022, and now he's back down to a 979.

Is it cyclical? Should use the 2nd year as a bench mark? Or should we look at it objectively and say the answer is probably in the middle? I'd say it's probably the latter, but I've been wrong many times before.

That being said, he's probably due for a little puck luck, and his play has been progressing nicely as of late, so I am happy with his play.
No. If anything, the PDO of a player should tend towards 1000 over a long period of time. That means DD's +/- and ESGA should have been better during his first season, and during this season, and that it should have been worse last season. Some players "normal" PDO should be a little over 1000 (and DD is one of them), because they don't shoot that much. But even then, 1020 was a bit high.

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03-03-2013, 12:38 PM
  #923
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I guess, but that's a cop out in my mind. Counter them, ya know?

You obviously understand the ins and outs of fancy stats. Educate, don't hate!

(Ok, I'm starting to feel like a self righteous jerk-off, so I'll lay off )
The problem is that the guy who posted his analysis probably have a decent understanding of numbers as well.

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03-03-2013, 12:41 PM
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My concern with DD isn't that he'll ask for X amount of money, it's that there are only a few center spots available. I had no problem with shifting chuckie to the wing this year because he was really struggling defensively, but next year? I'll take a two way guy over a purely offensive guy who only scores a bit more than the other every day of the week.
Next year Galchenyuk will be 19 years old... will he be ready to assume C duties?

Assuming Galchenyuk is ready to assume C duties in 2013-14, Plekanec will still be the one facing tougher opposition. In that scenario, Eller would look good on Plekanec’s wing.

Assuming Galchenyuk is not ready to assume C duties in 2013-14, the status quo upfront (3 well balanced lines + a strong 4th line) proved to be, thus far, a winning recipe. So moving forward with it seems to be a viable solution.

We don’t have a lot of “Elite” qualities in this team: Price is an overall elite player, Subban, his defensive zone decision thought process aside, is on the verge of reaching an elite status... Markov lost a step but a lot of aspects in his game show elite signs, Galchenyuk already has an elite shot, Kaberle’s passing skill and composure on the point during PP is elite, Pacioretty has size, speed, work ethic and a strong shot... and Desharnais has an elite vision.

Contrary to you (“My concern with DD isn't that he'll ask for X amount of money, it's that there are only a few center spots available...”), I do put a lot of emphasis on his current and next contract. The guy has flaws (see my previous post) but, as I already mentioned, with an alert coach behind the bench, he can be a valuable cap friendly (as in: use the money elsewhere) secondary scoring centre.

In fact, because of his elite vision and high compete level, he would be, if he is not looking for a 4M$+ contract, a chirurgical and deadly weapon.


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03-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Next year Galchenyuk will be 19 years old... will he be ready to assume C duties?

Assuming Galchenyuk is ready to assume C duties in 2013-14, Plekanec will still be the one facing tougher opposition. In that scenario, Eller would look good on Plekanec’s wing.

Assuming Galchenyuk is not ready to assume C duties in 2013-14, the status quo upfront (3 well balanced lines + a strong 4th line) is, thus far, a winning recipe.

We don’t have a lot of “Elite” qualities in this team: Price is an overall elite player, Subban, his defensive zone decision thought process aside, is on the verge of reaching an elite status... Markov lost a step but a lot of aspects in his game show elite signs, Galchenyuk already has an elite shot, Kaberle’s passing skill and composure on the point during PP is elite, Pacioretty has size, speed, work ethic and a strong shot... and Desharnais has an elite vision.

Contrary to you (“My concern with DD isn't that he'll ask for X amount of money, it's that there are only a few center spots available...”), I do put a lot of emphasis on his current and next contract. The guy has flaws (see my previous post) but, as I already mentioned, with an alert coach behind the bench, he can be a cap friendly (as in: use the money elsewhere) secondary scoring centre.

In fact, because of his elite vision and high compete level, he would be a chirurgical and deadly weapon.
The word 'chirurgical' would be 'surgical' in english. Not picking on your post, just thought you'd like to know.

I'm not concerned because I just don't think it'll be all that much. DD doesn't strike me as a guy to go out and ask for the world. If he does, though, the

As for his vision, not sure I'd put it as 'elite'. Very good, sure, but he'd need to go another coche or two higher to be 'elite' in my eyes. But really, that's semantics, I guess everyone has their own definitions. I wouldn't have his vision/passing in the same league as a marc savard or MSL, for example. I've got him pegged as somewhere just under Tanguay in terms of vision and passing.

As for galchenyuk. I think he will need to start learning in a sheltered environment not unlike what Desharnais has had. Easy minutes, offensive starts and so on so that he can start improving. He won't come in and dominate ES next year, but I think it's the time for him to start learning how, assuming he comes in next year not quite as ****** on faceoffs. In which case, I don't want two soft minute centres in the top 9.

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