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Old
03-03-2013, 08:37 AM
  #26
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
So how do they do this and stay under the cap?
Im guessing that the idea would be to grab a rental like Perry giving up a pick/prospect package. Boston does have plenty of cap room for this season to do that type of move.

I think personally, a smarter idea would be to make a trade that has potential to solve long term needs for the team in addition to helping this year too. Of course, my suggestion carries with it alot more risk. The reason there are so many 'rental' deals done each year is they are low risk/low return type moves and alot easier to stomach.

Do many of them ever work out though? Whether Boston rents someone this year or not... they still face a cap crunch next year. I think with the team's core so solid... plans should be aimed at winning for the next 3-5 years and not just only this one single season.

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03-03-2013, 09:00 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
why cant Edmonton resign Smid as an UFA if he loves Edmonton that much? Talk to him before the deal goes down so he doesnt get any hurt feelings. Tell him they'd love to have him back but the team isnt going to win anything this year and this trade makes them stronger for the future. If he really is interested in resigning with the team at a sensible cap hit... then theres no reason they cant resign him

I guess the way the Oilers defense shapes up now...

you got Schultz/Petry as two RH shots you can count on for the top 4. Oscar Kefbom seems likely he will be part of the top 4 in a couple years as a LH shot. Nick Schultz isnt really a top 4 guy on a good team but Edmonton isnt a good team yet. Ference to me repersents more winning pedigree/expereince then Schultz and probably will be cheaper to keep around for a 4-5 year deal.

Im not really wowed by any of Edmonton's other dmen and dont really think you can win with them. Edmonton will still need to do some more rebuilding in order to become the winning team they want to be

But if they do resign Smid... then he could continue to partner with Petry as a pretty good second pairing unit. Kefbom breaks in with Ference tutoring him for a couple years as a very good bottom unit hopefully. Then the team just has to find the right guy to play with Schultz in the top unit. Oilers will still have the ability to deal one of their hotshot kids to find themselves a really legitmate stud dman for the top spot.

Maybe dangle Yakubov to try to land someone like Tyler Myers if Buffalo is interested in that? Or maybe talk to Toronto about Gardiner since he and Schultz are reportedly tight from their college days?

Anyhow... your concern is understandable. But my counter is that I am not convinced Smid does intend to stay at a reasonable cost. I think he is going to get over 5 mill a year if he hits UFA. I dont think he is worth that and as an Oiler supporter I wouldnt pay it to him

He might be Edmontons best dman as you say... but on a winning team, he is only a second pairing guy. If you give him 5 mill you will blow your cap when it comes time to afford to keep guys like Schultz and Hopkins and a number 1 goalie in the future along with Hall and Eberle and maybe Gagne too
Why does no one know that the Kings just traded Simon Gagne to the Flyers . We never did have him . For saying how much this help the Oilers you do not seem to know that at all . PRV is doing very well as a 3rd liner with speed 2 way play and he is become more physical . He may never be a goal scorer but that is ok . He chips in here and there and that is all we need from him . To me PRV has more value to the Oilers then Bostons first . Smid more value the Ference . Hemsky=Horton .

For the record . We have a player name Sam Gagner . Hemsky for Horton makes sense if he is resigned . Hemsky is better in same area and Horton is better is some area . They are pretty = all in a all , But the Oilers need to get bigger


Last edited by supert: 03-03-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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03-03-2013, 09:20 AM
  #28
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I am not a fan of Hemsky. Watched him play in Edmonton. Played with my best friends ex. He would not fit in here in Boston. I can almost guarantee it. We need and want someone who is good down low, around the net, behind the net and who can snipe 10ft away from the net. Hemsky to me is more of a play maker not a sniper. He's made of glass and injury prone, and hasn't scored more than 23 g in his career and last three seasons hasn't scored more than 15 g. He could perhaps be useful on our PP but that's about all IMO. Would never trade Horton for him. Never. I think it would be a huge mistake. As mentioned if I'm the Bruins I'm not trading our top 6 unless I'm getting Corey Perry and even then it's still a tough call to make even though I think Corey Perry would put the B's over the top and would be a perfect fit in Boston. We have almost the same top 6 that won a Stanely Cup before and one of the those players IMO is improving (Brad Marchand). A few little tweaks with a good solid 3rd/2nd line winger is all we might need and something we could get by not trading away someone from our top 6 or eating away at our cap space.

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03-03-2013, 09:42 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
Im guessing that the idea would be to grab a rental like Perry giving up a pick/prospect package. Boston does have plenty of cap room for this season to do that type of move.

I think personally, a smarter idea would be to make a trade that has potential to solve long term needs for the team in addition to helping this year too. Of course, my suggestion carries with it alot more risk. The reason there are so many 'rental' deals done each year is they are low risk/low return type moves and alot easier to stomach.

Do many of them ever work out though? Whether Boston rents someone this year or not... they still face a cap crunch next year. I think with the team's core so solid... plans should be aimed at winning for the next 3-5 years and not just only this one single season.
OK,

For this season yes it would make sense for the Bruins to add. I was thinkiing more about next year.

Perry is very unlikely though. Anaheim is playing great this year. They may well take their chances and go for a deep playoff run. It would take a substantial offer for the Ducks to deal him unless he has told them he will not resign. Even then there will be lots of teams in the hunt.

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Old
03-03-2013, 09:47 AM
  #30
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The Oil are past the point of trading their players for first round picks. I personally have no interest in trading a package that includes some of our most productive players, for anything that doesn't help fill our immediate needs, ie, big centerman or top pair defenseman. This trade does nothing for the Oilers aside from replacing Hemsky with Horton, which I would maybe do 1 for 1, but the rest of the deal is unneccessary.

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Old
03-03-2013, 12:24 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
It can be very risky for a team going as good as Boston to make a shakeup trade but I think this one might make sense for 'us.' Im a Bruin's fan. I live in Edmonton and understand the Oilers needs too so I think this one works for the Oilers too. Here is the proposal and I'll offer a defense to it after.

Edmonton
Ales Hemsky {Edmonton picks up half his cap hit}
Magnus Paajarvi
Ladislav Smid

Boston
Nathan Horton {sign and trade}
Andrew Ference {sign and trade}
Boston's first round pick

So it's a big six player proposal and involves 3 impending UFA and also some cap hit too. Here is why I think it makes sense.

First for my Bruins. Horton/Ference were both part of the cup team but both guys are impending UFA and Boston has a cap issue looming for next season. I think Smid is a better dman than Ference and might only be a rental but Boston needs a top 4 guy for this year's playoff run. A rental is ok. Losing Horton does decrease Boston's size/grit but they have more then they need. They can afford to lose Horton. Hemsky isnt my favorite player in the world by far. But he does have good chemistry with Krecji. Sometimes Boston can't score enough 'easy' goals. I have a theory that Hemsky joining Krecji and Lucic would repersent a more offensively intimidating first line than Horton on the line does. Seguin/Bergeron/Marchand is probably the best second line in hockey. Kelly/Peverly are two thirds of a very competitive third line. Boston probably has the best fourth line in hockey. So shifting the dynamics on the first line adding Hemsky's skill to it does appeal to me even if he himself as a 'winner' does not. Then finally comes Paajarvi. The kid needs a change of address. He is buried way too far behind Hall/Eberle/Hopkins/Gagne/Yakubov to ever get a fair chance in Edmonton. Boston can give him a tryout right away on the third line with Kelly/Peverly and hope for the best.

As for Edmonton I guess most of the benefits are self explanatory. Hemsky is almost addition by subtraction at this point. He is too associated with the losing. The kids will have an easier time becoming the goto leaders on the team if Hemsky/Horcorff are removed from the picture. There is only 1 puck to go around and Eberle/Yakubov are both undersized super skilled RW that need to play on the top 3 lines. A big bull like Horton would complement the team more then a guy like Hemsky would. Moving on, Ference isnt as good a dman as Smid is BUT he is an alberta/edmonton area guy that liked playing in Calgary earlier in his career. He reeks leadership. He has winning pedigree. He plays team tough hockey. He really is what Edmonton needs to help upgrade their defense. Getting a first round pick to redo the Paajarvi draft doesnt really hurt. Paajarvi will only lose value the longer you keep him in bad situation and he isnt worth more then a late first right now already.

Keep in mind that this deal ONLY makes sense if Edmonton is getting both Horton/Ference signed for the future. I think Ference would be alot more affordable to resign then Smid will be. I think Horton might be more affordable then Hemsky. I think Edmonton stands to save some cap room.

This is a proposal where both teams deal from strength. Boston sacraficing some leadership/grit but gaining skill. Edmonton obviously sacraficing skill but gaining leadership/grit.

So that's it. We all make these proposals wondering what others think so I turn this over to you now. Thanks for reading.
Please, stop this nonsense.

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Old
03-03-2013, 12:40 PM
  #32
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Pass easily from Boston. Not interested in shaking up the core unless a true superstar is coming back.

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03-03-2013, 12:51 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Flaw is also that I do not see sign and trades happening in the NHL.

I see both Horton and Ference trying the open market
Especially to Edmonton, it won't be for the team but the location.

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03-03-2013, 01:01 PM
  #34
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So we trade Hemsky who has negative value even though he has 8 goals and is leading the 2nd line and 2nd power play unit as well. We trade Smid who has said many times he loves Edmonton and just married an Edmonton girl.

I have more faith in Smid re-signing then I do 2 players with no loyalty to Edmonton.

Signed Smid > Ferrence for 2 months
Signed Hemsky > Horton for 2 months

MPS versus the first round pick is debateable but with boston being a good team its probably like 25th overall so I potentially would rather hold onto MPS then another magic bean.

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03-03-2013, 01:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Flaw is also that I do not see sign and trades happening in the NHL.
Sign and trades are only something that happens with RFAs anyway. Both Horton and Ference are UFAs.

As for the deal, not a chance from Edmonton. Horton is nice, but he's also a RW (which the Oilers are completely overloaded with) and probaby less of a compliment to Yakupov than Hemsky. Smid is infinitely more important to the Oilers going forward than Ference who is already 33. And while I'm sure other teams' fans would be unwilling to give up a 1st round pick for Paajarvi, I think it's equally unlikely the Oilers would give up Paajarvi for a late 1st round pick.

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03-03-2013, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Old
03-03-2013, 02:07 PM
  #37
Joey Moss
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The deal breaker here is Smid and Ference.. Hemsky for Horton I might do.. Paajarvi for 1st I probably would do. Smid for Ference not even close, IMO.

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03-03-2013, 02:14 PM
  #38
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only if you reverse the 1rst rounders.
b's should be receiving not giving.

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03-03-2013, 02:39 PM
  #39
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The deal breaker here is Smid and Ference.. Hemsky for Horton I might do.. Paajarvi for 1st I probably would do. Smid for Ference not even close, IMO.
Pretty much this. Smid loves the city, is a fan favourite, and is our best defenceman. I would expect the Oilers to be working on an extension as we speak, hopefully around a 5 yr deal in the 16 mil vicinity. No doubt Horton is both an upgrade and fills a bigger need than Hemsky, but the difference between those two vs the difference between Smid and Ference isn't close enough to pull the trigger. Paajarvi vs a 1st that will be 25-30 is a wash. He will have a full time spot next year on the 3rd line, as I think Hemsky will be dealt at the deadline.

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03-03-2013, 02:53 PM
  #40
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Brutal trade for the Oilers, the Oilers want to move ahead, not become a farm team for another team.

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03-03-2013, 04:33 PM
  #41
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Not terrible but NTY from Edmonton, Smid is our best shutdown dman. Without him, we'll be bleeding goals.

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03-03-2013, 05:54 PM
  #42
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
So we trade Hemsky who has negative value even though he has 8 goals and is leading the 2nd line and 2nd power play unit as well. We trade Smid who has said many times he loves Edmonton and just married an Edmonton girl.

I have more faith in Smid re-signing then I do 2 players with no loyalty to Edmonton.

Signed Smid > Ferrence for 2 months
Signed Hemsky > Horton for 2 months

MPS versus the first round pick is debateable but with boston being a good team its probably like 25th overall so I potentially would rather hold onto MPS then another magic bean.
the deal would make no sense for edmonton unless the bruin players were willing to commit to signing at a price edmonton is happy with. So saying that you have more faith in smid signing is kind of silly. However, if smid was going to sign too then this becomes a massive homerun win for edmonton. After all then they only lose a partial year of smid to make this deal happen. They end up with smid and ference and horton and the pick for 1 year of hemsky and whatever paajarvi eventually turns into.

so for all you edmonton fans who think its a slam dunk that smid stays at a price that is doable... i dont really see your argument against this trade proposal at all.

myself... i think it looks like smid is heading to a massive overpayment. I think he is NOT a legit top 2 or even top 3 dman on a really great team. I think he is a shot blocker type guy who is pretty good defensively but doesnt really have the all round game necessary to be a 23-25 min per night all situation guy like you want your 5 million dollar per year players to be.

if im wrong... then so be it. If smid is destined to resign in edmonton then it doesnt really bother me. I still like the idea of Boston getting an upgrade for our top 4 dmen and think smid repersents that. He is not a deal breaker for me. I could easily make my proposal work by taking smid and the first round pick out and then just dealing the first round pick for some other dman of comparable value.

Id do Horton/Ference for Hemsky/Paajarvii if I knew I had a second plan to replace Ference on the blueline ready to go.

I think its nip and tuck for Edmonton to make the playoffs this year. I think holding onto a pending UFA like smid when the playoffs are an uncertainity is just bad hockey team building. But, I wish Edmonton no ill will. Let's hope if they do decide to keep him, that he does resign as you all seem to think he will.

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03-03-2013, 06:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
the deal would make no sense for edmonton unless the bruin players were willing to commit to signing at a price edmonton is happy with. So saying that you have more faith in smid signing is kind of silly. However, if smid was going to sign too then this becomes a massive homerun win for edmonton. After all then they only lose a partial year of smid to make this deal happen. They end up with smid and ference and horton and the pick for 1 year of hemsky and whatever paajarvi eventually turns into.

so for all you edmonton fans who think its a slam dunk that smid stays at a price that is doable... i dont really see your argument against this trade proposal at all.

myself... i think it looks like smid is heading to a massive overpayment. I think he is NOT a legit top 2 or even top 3 dman on a really great team. I think he is a shot blocker type guy who is pretty good defensively but doesnt really have the all round game necessary to be a 23-25 min per night all situation guy like you want your 5 million dollar per year players to be.

if im wrong... then so be it. If smid is destined to resign in edmonton then it doesnt really bother me. I still like the idea of Boston getting an upgrade for our top 4 dmen and think smid repersents that. He is not a deal breaker for me. I could easily make my proposal work by taking smid and the first round pick out and then just dealing the first round pick for some other dman of comparable value.

Id do Horton/Ference for Hemsky/Paajarvii if I knew I had a second plan to replace Ference on the blueline ready to go.

I think its nip and tuck for Edmonton to make the playoffs this year. I think holding onto a pending UFA like smid when the playoffs are an uncertainity is just bad hockey team building. But, I wish Edmonton no ill will. Let's hope if they do decide to keep him, that he does resign as you all seem to think he will.
Horton has a concussion history, and for a power forward that's not a good combination. If Hemsky play continues to shine, it would be a good bet Horton and Ference wouldn't get you Hemsky. As neither would help the Oiler in the future. Paajarvii may not getting the points, but he excels as a defensive forward and has developed a nice physical game. The Oilers management still have high hopes for him and I don't see him going for a package that doesn't really help the Oilers.

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Old
03-03-2013, 07:35 PM
  #44
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hemsky is unquestionably a highlight reel machine. but his practice habits suck. He is last guy on/first guy off. His work on the PP is horrific. He is borderline uncoachable. His raw talent gets him some results but he has an ego that doesnt let him play well with the other children. Hemsky demands that the puck goes throw himself.

Now i think its possible that if he got dealt to a team that just won the cup, that maybe he could change his attitude/issues? Im not 100% convinced but I would maybe risk it. He did play well with Krecji so that works in his favor. Boston doesnt have any highlight reel machines like Edmonton does so Hemsky would be 'special' again in Boston. That might help.

In Edmonton though the time has come to turn the puck over to kids like Eberle/Hall/Hopkins and potentially Yakubov/Gagne. Where does Hemsky fit into this mix? He isnt willing to play the offwing. Again this speaks to his willingness to put the team first. Unwilling/unable? does it matter?

Yakubov/Eberle need to play the RW. Both are undersized/skilled guys. Hemsky making 5 mill is a very very expensive unnecessary third name here. He is just more of the same when there is already enough of it.

Horton is a crashing/banger that you can build third line around if you want to go in that direction. He has also played center in the NHL before. Im sure hed agree to play LW if asked.

On another team Hemsky might not be addition by subtraction. On a very young super talented Oiler team that has alot of questions about character/winning attitude in the locker room and on the ice... he is. His super talent doesnt compensage enough for his other issues since the team doesnt need more super talent.
Edmonton media has stated a few times that Hemsky came in with a different attitude this year, that he now sees that the Oilers aren't necessarily replacing him with talented players, but giving more help in that area. He is fine on the powerplay, if he was that bad, the pp would be worse. He is also not uncoachable, and I've never heard if him demanding the puck go through him. You're grapsing at straws.

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Old
03-03-2013, 07:54 PM
  #45
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Edmonton isn't giving up Smid unless a better d-man is coming back in return.

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