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03-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #276
Dr Beinfest
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Dineen's style of coaching is hardly the issue.

You can't blame Dineen for how bad his goaltenders have been. You can't blame Dineen for not having Markstrom called up. You can't blame Dineen for Weiss being absent. You can't blame Dineen for the copious amounts of injuries to key players like Weiss, Versteeg, Bergenheim, Jovo, Kulikov, Gudbranson's suspension, etc.

Firing Dineen would be an incredibly useless move, regardless of what opinion you have of him as a coach. As far as I'm concerned, he took us to the playoffs last year and this mess is hardly any single person's fault right now, so best to just ride the wave's trough right now. If in the future this team should be a lot better than it is, consider firing him. Right now though, given the situation, I don't think that's the case.

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03-03-2013, 01:05 PM
  #277
adam graves
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we are all responding to a leaf troll, perhaps the only fan group more miserable than ours.

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03-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #278
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It's Dineen's fault. Just like it was DeBoer's fault. Just like it was Martin's fault. Etc., etc.

Safe to say it's on the players.

Dineen is not getting fired. You might not like him, but that would be incredibly unfair. He came into a horrendus organization and led a franchise to the playoffs in his first year. A franchise that hadn't been to the playoffs in a decade and pretty much overachieved last year, realistically speaking.

Fire Dineen

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03-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #279
Dr Beinfest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It's Dineen's fault. Just like it was DeBoer's fault. Just like it was Martin's fault. Etc., etc.

Safe to say it's on the players.

Dineen is not getting fired. You might not like him, but that would be incredibly unfair. He came into a horrendus organization and led a franchise to the playoffs in his first year. A franchise that hadn't been to the playoffs in a decade and pretty much overachieved last year, realistically speaking.

Fire Dineen
JM needed to go because he was a boneheaded general manager.

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03-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
JM needed to go because he was a boneheaded general manager.
Well, yeah. He probably shouldn't have been a GM.

But still, my point is we shouldn't fire Dineen. People used to say the same things about DeBoer (basically everyone but zeroG), and DeBoer is now doing fine in NJ.

Bottom line is, we're not blowing leads and losing games because the coach sucks. We're doing those things because the team isn't good enough right now.

I'm sure if Markstrom comes up and make some saves, Dineen is going to look a lot better.

The team is basically playing the same way it played last year. The only major difference is that the goaltenders were making saves last year.

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03-03-2013, 05:03 PM
  #281
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NICE

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03-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
JM needed to go because he was a boneheaded general manager.
no he wasn't. he was conservative, in general but he didn't have a mandate to tear apart the team. he made some mistakes but less, than tallon has made. of course, that's mainly because he just didn't take the chances tallon has though even the biggest fan would have to admin that tallon is throwing a lot of **** against the wall here.

in any event, i said this at the time and since but while JM was GM here, our prospect pool's rating went way up. it was hovering around 10 (up from mid 20s) when he left, iirc, and that was mainly because he accumulated picks and held on to prospects. that's not the description of a boneheaded GM.

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03-03-2013, 05:36 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Dineen's style of coaching is hardly the issue.

You can't blame Dineen for how bad his goaltenders have been. You can't blame Dineen for not having Markstrom called up. You can't blame Dineen for Weiss being absent. You can't blame Dineen for the copious amounts of injuries to key players like Weiss, Versteeg, Bergenheim, Jovo, Kulikov, Gudbranson's suspension, etc.

Firing Dineen would be an incredibly useless move, regardless of what opinion you have of him as a coach. As far as I'm concerned, he took us to the playoffs last year and this mess is hardly any single person's fault right now, so best to just ride the wave's trough right now. If in the future this team should be a lot better than it is, consider firing him. Right now though, given the situation, I don't think that's the case.
while it's true that you can't blame him for poor goaltending, injuries and poor play of key guys, you can blame him for the team's preparation, organization and compete level. even tho i don't like dineen as a coach, he's a stand up guy and i'm sure he would admit that he's failed in that regard if he were ever to be asked. i think this has been a consistent issue with his teams here, regardless of success last year.

still, i wouldn't be firing him now. i would give him next year, unless the team gets off to a dreadful start next season and it isn't a result of injuries like we've had this year.

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03-03-2013, 07:00 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
no he wasn't. he was conservative, in general but he didn't have a mandate to tear apart the team. he made some mistakes but less, than tallon has made. of course, that's mainly because he just didn't take the chances tallon has though even the biggest fan would have to admin that tallon is throwing a lot of **** against the wall here.

in any event, i said this at the time and since but while JM was GM here, our prospect pool's rating went way up. it was hovering around 10 (up from mid 20s) when he left, iirc, and that was mainly because he accumulated picks and held on to prospects. that's not the description of a boneheaded GM.
Haha... are you really defending JM's time as GM? He made some awesome signings giving his limitations here, right?! And his draft record was great!

Who cares what HFBoards 'rates our prospect pool'. Such a moot point. Results are all that matter, and when you look at his drafts...

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03-03-2013, 07:32 PM
  #285
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Yet another game where Weiss was near invisible. When will Dineen scratch him? WAKE UP DINEEN!

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03-03-2013, 07:41 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Yet another game where Weiss was near invisible. When will Dineen scratch him? WAKE UP DINEEN!
That really doesn't do anything, but decrease his trade value some more. Even if Dineen wanted to do that at this point, there are too many injuries.

I hope Weiss is traded tomorrow morning. For a sack of ****. I really don't care. Get his worthless ass off my favorite team, Tallon.

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03-03-2013, 07:48 PM
  #287
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I'm for keeping him and giving him the opportunity at coming back. Nothing to lose.

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03-03-2013, 07:50 PM
  #288
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He sucks

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03-03-2013, 07:52 PM
  #289
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If Weiss wants to prove himself and that he's still the player he was in the past, in the form of a paycut, then I'd welcome him back. Right now, 2-2.5 on a one year deal is the max I'd be willing to offer. But he'd have to sign that contract NOW, no way I'd wait until the offseason.

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03-03-2013, 07:53 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
I'm for keeping him and giving him the opportunity at coming back. Nothing to lose.
What do you mean?! We have a first/second line C (was last year) that is going to be an UFA at seasons end. If he doesn't resign we have nothing, a la Bouwmeester.

I rather get something for him at this point, even if his value is at an all-time low.

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03-03-2013, 07:54 PM
  #291
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Get rid of him, He is useless and shouldnt be paid more than a Dollar right now.


Cant watch this crap anymore.

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03-03-2013, 08:29 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Haha... are you really defending JM's time as GM? He made some awesome signings giving his limitations here, right?! And his draft record was great!

Who cares what HFBoards 'rates our prospect pool'. Such a moot point. Results are all that matter, and when you look at his drafts...
he drafted all of TWO years and i'll remind you that markstrom and robak were his picks. if tallon hadn't thrown away ellerby, those two years would not look so bad.

his signings were modest - his approach was to bring in reasonable vets to complement a young core. he didn't saddle us with a bunch of crazy contracts (like tallon has) but instead set up his successor's pretty well.

i don't think he was a genius general manager. he was a limited, reluctant GM but he was smart in his conservative approach - he didn't throw away picks or prospects, he accumulated them. that, along with decent drafts under sexton set the stage for tallon.

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03-03-2013, 08:36 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
he drafted all of TWO years and i'll remind you that markstrom and robak were his picks. if tallon hadn't thrown away ellerby, those two years would not look so bad.

his signings were modest - his approach was to bring in reasonable vets to complement a young core. he didn't saddle us with a bunch of crazy contracts (like tallon has) but instead set up his successor's pretty well.

i don't think he was a genius general manager. he was a limited, reluctant GM but he was smart in his conservative approach - he didn't throw away picks or prospects, he accumulated them. that, along with decent drafts under sexton set the stage for tallon.
He did a nice job at setting this team up for mediocrity.

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03-03-2013, 09:06 PM
  #294
Dr Beinfest
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Originally Posted by PantherboyHTR View Post
What do you mean?! We have a first/second line C (was last year) that is going to be an UFA at seasons end. If he doesn't resign we have nothing, a la Bouwmeester.

I rather get something for him at this point, even if his value is at an all-time low.
Weiss's trade value right now is non-existent. He's probably going to get MORE trade value when the deadline comes around, regardless of how he plays right now. That pretty much sums up how bad he's playing.

What we got for Bouwmeester is all we are going to get for Weiss at this point. A 3rd rounder.

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03-03-2013, 09:12 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Weiss's trade value right now is non-existent. He's probably going to get MORE trade value when the deadline comes around, regardless of how he plays right now. That pretty much sums up how bad he's playing.

What we got for Bouwmeester is all we are going to get for Weiss at this point. A 3rd rounder.
Well, we are without a 3rd rounder this year.

-ghoste

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03-03-2013, 09:18 PM
  #296
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he drafted all of TWO years and i'll remind you that markstrom and robak were his picks. if tallon hadn't thrown away ellerby, those two years would not look so bad.
Ellerby is bad. Ellerby didn't convert from his pick position.

Robak and Markstrom are all we have from that mess. Robak is yet to blossom really, but we have hope there. Markstrom, as we know, looks great.

Quote:
his signings were modest - his approach was to bring in reasonable vets to complement a young core. he didn't saddle us with a bunch of crazy contracts (like tallon has) but instead set up his successor's pretty well.
Like Tallon has? Use your thinking cap man. Dale Tallon purposely designed these contracts such that we sit at the Panthers 'upper limit' and put up a pseudo 'win now' campaign until our youngsters have developed. Hence why all of those contracts expire at the same time. Just in time for our youngsters to receive a pay day that they'll be demanding.

Quote:
i don't think he was a genius general manager. he was a limited, reluctant GM but he was smart in his conservative approach - he didn't throw away picks or prospects, he accumulated them. that, along with decent drafts under sexton set the stage for tallon.
JM didn't accumulate picks whatsoever. Sexton and Tallon were the ones to do that, really.

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03-03-2013, 09:18 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
If Weiss wants to prove himself and that he's still the player he was in the past, in the form of a paycut, then I'd welcome him back. Right now, 2-2.5 on a one year deal is the max I'd be willing to offer. But he'd have to sign that contract NOW, no way I'd wait until the offseason.
LOL... Why would he do that? He's been underpaid for the past 3,4 seasons. He'll get money somewhere else. Which is unfortunate.. I'm still sticking to some kind of injury.

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03-03-2013, 09:42 PM
  #298
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Well the way he's playing right now is certainly not going to get him an overpaid contract come FA. If anything, he'll get what he was worth prior to this season.

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03-03-2013, 10:27 PM
  #299
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Well the way he's playing right now is certainly not going to get him an overpaid contract come FA. If anything, he'll get what he was worth prior to this season.
Vokoun 2.0

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03-03-2013, 11:25 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
It's Dineen's fault. Just like it was DeBoer's fault. Just like it was Martin's fault. Etc., etc.

Safe to say it's on the players.

Dineen is not getting fired. You might not like him, but that would be incredibly unfair. He came into a horrendus organization and led a franchise to the playoffs in his first year. A franchise that hadn't been to the playoffs in a decade and pretty much overachieved last year, realistically speaking.

Fire Dineen
I couldn't agree more.

This team needs stability. For so many years we lacked it. Tallon has built a great prospect pool and Dineen is the guy who is most familiar with these kids in terms of on ice in our organization. Just like you said he led a team of misfits and spare parts to the playoffs and one of two OT goal posts going in from sending the Eastern Conference Champs home in the first round.

I may question some of the things he does, but he's the NHL coach, not me. I have faith in him. After last season how can you? I really don't think it's his fault that the 1st line has fallen apart from halfway through last year (Bergy-Goc-Sammy carried this team for the 2nd half, let's be real), our defense has the effectiveness of a cloud and our goalies are the laughing stock of the league.

I know he's trying to motivate the guys, and it shows. It really does. But not in the whole team unfortunately, but it shows where it counts IMO. Matthias and Skille are a product of Dineen's coaching. Matthias is almost on pace for 20 goal season (if a full year) and Skille has at least been busting his ass like nobody's business. I think Matthias will be a valuable part of this team, I just hope Dale doesn't send him packing since he's not one of his players. We'll know the answer by this off-season.

I also think Mueller has responded to him giving him a chance as a top-6 forward. Kid has talent and will be a good part of this team as well. Shore has played great after Dineen had the confidence in him to give him some serious responsibility and he has responded (Shore is our only + player).

I did question him with the Jovo captaincy, but again, he's in the locker room and we are not. Dineen is not a PR stunt kind of guy. If Jovo was who he felt is this team's captain than maybe that's the case. We're definitely playing like we're missing our captain right now.

So in terms of the firing Dineen talk, I think it's crazy. He'll go on to coach again and be successful in this league just like DeBoer. Don't let another coach with great skill go. They don't grow on trees.

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