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David Desharnais Discussion (Slow Start & Contact Talk)

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03-03-2013, 01:05 PM
  #926
Et le But
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I don't think Galchenyuk needs to be quite as sheltered as DD was in the past, as long as he plays on the wings. We can't have both Galchenyuk and Desharnais playing center right now, Galchenyuk is definitely not ready for that.

That's one of the reasons so many of us want to see if Desharnais can play on the wings, because it would make things much easier going forward. Adaptability to multiple positions is only a good thing.

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03-03-2013, 01:11 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
First, HOW CONVENIENT to forget Eric Cole in your analysis. Cole is right there with ,891 -- 983.

That indicates that the whole line was somewhat unlucky.

Then....
1- Bad PDO explains bad +/-. If anything, that's the whole point of the stat.

2- DD is indeed behind Eller, Plek and White in the faceoffs. He's also within the margin of error (3%) of Plekanec, and BARELY out of the margin of error for Eller. He's quite far of Ryan White, but nobody suggests White should take his spot anyways. He's also ahead of Galchenyuk, but I'd rather not make an argument with this.

3 - Points on the PP? Really? Considering that a player can screen the goalie (something DD did quite effectively a few times this year, mind you) or make a pass or win a faceoff, without getting an assist, it's hard to take THAT argument seriously.

4 - See point 1. Besides, your 4th point is basically your 1st point with a different wording...

5 - I concede that the minor penalties are annoying, and one of the reasons why I think we should look for other options, should he ask for more than 3.5 millions. This said, is he that worst than Lars Eller in that regards?


Eller took 1 minor per 2656,8 seconds.
DD took 1 minor per 2630,3 seconds.

With appropriate rounding, both took 1 minor per 44 minutes of IT (43,8 for DD, 44,1 for Eller... or something like that). Considering Eller played roughly 265 minutes and that DD played roughly 350 minutes, both players would, statistically speaking, have the same number of minors, should they had played the same minutes than the other.
Well, let's use your theory about TOI and penalty....nut on the Powerplay production.

Eller managed 2 points in PP while playing about 15 minutes
DD managed 4 points in PP while playing about 65 minutes

If Eller would have get the 65 minutes we gave to DD....he would have roughly 9 points in PP so far.....and would be a much much more effective screening guy due to his size.....what are we waiting for???

But it's not about one point....it's the combination of it all.
The rest of the season might change my mind.....but here's the thing (since you involved Eller in the discussion)

Eller = 9 points at even-strenght in 19 games
DD= 9 points at even strenght in 21 games

I won't repeat what i said about the production on PP between Eller and DD.

Eller is better in the PK, got more passes than DD in 2 games less (Elite vision?), is way more physical, more reliable defensively, younger, bigger, stronger, faster, better in faceoffs....and comes next year, Eller will be cheaper too.

If it goes on like that....why the habs should keep DD?

Like i said, DD must do better (in order to keep him with the habs)

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Old
03-03-2013, 01:13 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Well, let's use your theory about TOI and penalty....nut on the Powerplay production.

Eller managed 2 points in PP while playing about 15 minutes
DD managed 4 points in PP while playing about 65 minutes

If Eller would have get the 65 minutes we gave to DD....he would have roughly 9 points in PP so far.....and would be a much much more effective screening guy due to his size.....what are we waiting for???

But it's not about one point....it's the combination of it all.
The rest of the season might change my mind.....but here's the thing (since you involved Eller in the discussion)

Eller = 9 points at even-strenght in 19 games
DD= 9 points at even strenght in 21 games

I won't repeat what i said about the production on PP between Eller and DD.

Eller is better in the PK, got more passes than DD in 2 games less (Elite vision?), is way more physical, more reliable defensively, younger, bigger, stronger, faster, better in faceoffs....and comes next year, Eller will be cheaper too.

If it goes on like that....why the habs should keep DD?

Like i said, DD must do better (in order to keep him with the habs)
Eller's PP time has to be multiplied by 4,33 to get to DD's.

Eller IT has to be multiplied by 1,25 to get to DD's.

One sample is more significant than the other.

And, damn, did you watch any game so far to say that DD wasn't EXTREMELY efficient in screening?

Besides, I took Eller's case to say that, if DD can be blamed of something, then another player (in that case, Lars Eller) should be blamed for it as well, in order for the blame to make any sense and not being something of an ad hominem. I haven't seen you, or anybody, reproach anything to Eller in that regard.

And aside from the screening, I haven't praised DD that much in this thread. I did see people make half-assed analysis in order to spread their Truths, though.
Just... re-establishing facts.


Last edited by MXD: 03-03-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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Old
03-03-2013, 01:24 PM
  #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Eller's PP time has to be multiplied by 4,33 to get to DD's.

Eller IT has to be multiplied by 1,25 to get to DD's.

One sample is more significant than the other.

And, damn, did you watch any game so far to say that DD wasn't EXTREMELY efficient in screening?

Besides, I took Eller's case to say that, if DD can be blamed of something, then another player (in that case, Lars Eller) should be blamed for it as well). I haven't seen you, or anybody, reproach anything to Eller in that regard.
Extremely...no i didn't see that.....good, yes!!

But where talking about standing in front of the goalie here...not the hardest job in the world. Shouldn't be the job of the smaller guy on the team either if you'd ask me. Not if this guy is supposedly the best playmaker on the team, would you agree??

DD's first upside....it's his vision, his hockey IQ....Powerplay sould be the bread and butter of these kind of players, and i don't see it. Playmakers are supposed to be the cornerstone of the powerplay and he is not! He's good/okay but nothing else so far.

And yes Eller could be blamed or any other players for that matter.....but for me, it's all about upside VS downside.
Eller for me got good upside and small downside....DD got huge upside and huge downside!!

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03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
  #930
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Extremely...no i didn't see that.....good, yes!!

But where talking about standing in front of the goalie here...not the hardest job in the world. Shouldn't be the job of the smaller guy on the team either if you'd ask me. Not if this guy is supposedly the best playmaker on the team, would you agree??

DD's first upside....it's his vision, his hockey IQ....Powerplay sould be the bread and butter of these kind of players, and i don't see it. Playmakers are supposed to be the cornerstone of the powerplay and he is not! He's good/okay but nothing else so far.
Pass - move - screen?

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03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
  #931
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I honestly think the hatred towards dd would be a lot less if he were 6" taller. Ridiculous as it seems .

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03-03-2013, 01:40 PM
  #932
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he doesn't belong on the top 6 period

he is a soft one dimensional player and no contender has a DD on their top 6 NO ONE

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03-03-2013, 01:48 PM
  #933
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he doesn't belong on the top 6 period

he is a soft one dimensional player and no contender has a DD on their top 6 NO ONE
How many DD's are there?

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03-03-2013, 02:18 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by freezie View Post
I honestly think the hatred towards dd would be a lot less if he were 6" taller. Ridiculous as it seems .
The taller and bigger he would be, and the farther he would be born, the better he would be.


Geez, get us Arthyukin.

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03-03-2013, 02:44 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
The taller and bigger he would be, and the farther he would be born, the better he would be.


Geez, get us Arthyukin.
Is that why more people are talking about Patrick Bordeleau here than Arthyukin? It should be obvious that the obsession with height around here overwhelms every other factor.

For the last time, stop trying to make this something it's not.

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03-03-2013, 02:49 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Is that why more people are talking about Patrick Bordeleau here than Arthyukin? It should be obvious that the obsession with height around here overwhelms every other factor.

For the last time, stop trying to make this something it's not.
Well, Bordeleau is probably a better fighter and could probably be signed for much cheaper...

Bordeleau is talked about because he's a huge center who can throw them with anybody. He happens to be québecois, and if anything, that should be a plus, if he fits all other criterias, no?

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03-03-2013, 02:53 PM
  #937
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DD is once again outplaying Plekanec. Ever since the Habs have reach first palce in the East and the game or more intense and with pressure Plekanec has dissapeared. He is proving once more he can be counted on in big games. Meanwhile DD has risen up in those games. Plekanec has 0 points in the last 5 games. Trade Plekanec and kepp DD while Galchenyuk is learning. Then trade DD has Galchenyuk and Eller will be 1 and 2 center.

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Old
03-03-2013, 03:28 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Well, Bordeleau is probably a better fighter and could probably be signed for much cheaper...

Bordeleau is talked about because he's a huge center who can throw them with anybody. He happens to be québecois, and if anything, that should be a plus, if he fits all other criterias, no?
Yes, I agree, but I'm commenting against the "foreign is better" strawman. Nobody wants Arthyukin, and rightfully so, because he's terrible. Bordeleau is also terrible, yet people want him. And I happen to agree, if we need a one dimensional heavyweight to play 3 minutes a game 10 times a year, going for the young local guy makes sense as the first choice. But he's not the kind of player you fight other teams for.

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03-03-2013, 03:42 PM
  #939
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Is that why more people are talking about Patrick Bordeleau here than Arthyukin? It should be obvious that the obsession with height around here overwhelms every other factor.

For the last time, stop trying to make this something it's not.
Size matter in the Stanley cup playoffs. Almost every team that wins the stanley has very good size in their top 6. Ex: Last year Cup winner the LA Kings

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03-03-2013, 04:20 PM
  #940
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I honestly think the hatred towards dd would be a lot less if he were 6" taller. Ridiculous as it seems .
He would be a completely different player.

Right now coaches have to structure the team to accommodate his limitations. The cascade of repercussions throughout the lineup make him a negative.

Why is Galchenyuk no longer a center? Because they want to give those minutes to the DD line.

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03-03-2013, 04:30 PM
  #941
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He would be a completely different player.

Right now coaches have to structure the team to accommodate his limitations. The cascade of repercussions throughout the lineup make him a negative.

Why is Galchenyuk no longer a center? Because they want to give those minutes to the DD line.
How about : They want to give those minutes to Eller?

Again, like a few people here, the name in the back is more important than the logo on the chest.

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03-03-2013, 04:38 PM
  #942
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How about : They want to give those minutes to Eller?

Again, like a few people here, the name in the back is more important than the logo on the chest.
Would you cut it out? Use your head instead of jumping to such a conclusion. It's not an accusation to make so lightly.

Gally and DD need to play sheltered minutes, they play the same kind of opposition. Replacing Galchenyuk with Eller has given us a few more options at ES when playing against any teams with depth. It's not about 'wanting' to give those minutes to anybody, it's about needing to. This habs team is better when having two two way centres like Pleks and Eller playing their natural positions.

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Old
03-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #943
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How about : They want to give those minutes to Eller?

Again, like a few people here, the name in the back is more important than the logo on the chest.
Err..you do know Eller is playing with Galchenyuk, right? So "giving" minutes to Eller means giving them to Galchenyuk too. And I don't think it takes any loyalty to any specific player to say Eller is better defensively than DD or Galchenyuk.

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03-03-2013, 04:51 PM
  #944
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Would you cut it out? Use your head instead of jumping to such a conclusion. It's not an accusation to make so lightly.
Some things are better left unanswered. I kept a rather rational approach so far, and when things leave a rational framework, well, I tend to drop it as well.

Quote:
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Err..you do know Eller is playing with Galchenyuk, right? So "giving" minutes to Eller means giving them to Galchenyuk too. And I don't think it takes any loyalty to any specific player to say Eller is better defensively than DD or Galchenyuk.
I know that Eller plays with Galchenyuk, but only one them can play center on a given play. Hence my reply. If they want to give those minutes to Gally, WITH GALLY AT C, well, MT just has to play Gally at C, and Eller on wing.

Gally has more experience than DD at wing, and MT seems to prefer Eller than Gally at C. MT wants to win games. Thus, Gally plays wing (which is better than , Eller plays Center, and DD plays on a another line. I just really fail to see how Gally's IT and position has much to do with this. I mean, if DD wasn't with the Habs, he'd probably play center. But the same can be said with Plekanec and Eller, so...

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03-03-2013, 04:52 PM
  #945
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Plekanec has dissapeared. He is proving once more he can be counted on in big games. .


That doesn't make sense, at all.


BUT, If you truly want to start a fancy stats debate between Desharnais and Plekanec, we can, but you will not like the outcome. From the tone of your post you are quite bias though, so I am unsure if you would be able to discuss certain players and remain objective.

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03-03-2013, 04:57 PM
  #946
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That doesn't make sense, at all.


BUT, If you truly want to start a fancy stats debate between Desharnais and Plekanec, we can, but you will not like the outcome. From the tone of your post you are quite bias though, so I am unsure if you would be able to discuss certain players and remain objective.
Sorry been told not to debate Plekanec anymore.

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03-03-2013, 05:01 PM
  #947
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In that case, do yourself a favour and go to behindthenet.ca, check out his QoC and his relative Corsi and compare it to Desharnais.

Then realize that the two aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of assignments and sheltered minutes.

Or stay ignorant, I don't really care, lol, but bringing up a few invalid points as facts and then saying "I'm not allowed to talk about it" is a cop out.

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03-03-2013, 05:06 PM
  #948
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In that case, do yourself a favour and go to behindthenet.ca, check out his QoC and his relative Corsi and compare it to Desharnais.

Then realize that the two aren't even in the same stratosphere in terms of assignments and sheltered minutes.

Or stay ignorant, I don't really care, lol, but bringing up a few invalid points as facts and then saying "I'm not allowed to talk about it" is a cop out.
You are right, i am sorry

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03-03-2013, 05:09 PM
  #949
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haha, now I feel bad. Don't apologize damn it.

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03-03-2013, 05:11 PM
  #950
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haha, now I feel bad. Don't apologize damn it.
You are a bad man, dooms.

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