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Team Toughness or lack thereof

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Old
03-02-2013, 08:03 PM
  #251
God Says No
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we got enough "toughness" on this team. it just wasn't activated today for some reason. how many big hits has neil delivered this year? how many times has he fought?

where the hell was dizzy? he is supposed to be the "tough" guy.

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Last edited by Fugu: 03-03-2013 at 01:47 AM. Reason: flaming
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03-02-2013, 09:20 PM
  #252
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Toughness is so subjective. It depends on how the game is called. I was watching the Flyers broadcast and it wasn't like they were playing up how tough the Flyers were. And believe me Jim Jackson and company would if they could.

Who are the tough guys on the Flyers roster? Rinaldo? He's a poor man's Darcy Tucker who plays 6 minutes a night. Simmonds and Hartnell are gritty top-6 guys but they're not scaring anybody. Seriously, where's their big enforcer? Jody Shelly will probably never play in the league again and Tom Sestito (who is a marginal fighter anyway) was just sent down to the AHL. Where's the Carkner on their team?

You guys are making this stuff up. You're pissed that the team lost and you want to see them go down fighting or whatever. I get it to a degree but we're really going off the deep end here.

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03-02-2013, 09:29 PM
  #253
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And Daniel Alfredsson just got the Don Cherry seal of approval on Coach's Corner for going after Rinaldo. "That's how a captain should act." he said. I happen to agree with him even though Alfie got the 5 minute major.

We're a tough team, gents. It's about team toughness and being hard on the puck. The 2013 Sens are definitely that. I would certainly welcome a nuclear option fighter on the roster but it's not absolutely necessary. I am more than comfortable with the team's size and toughness.

Now we need to generate some offense.

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03-02-2013, 09:31 PM
  #254
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I'm not sure if this has been said already, but this teams 'toughness' reminds me of the red wings teams of the late 90s or early 2000s. Skill in the top 6 (admittedly we are lacking in that area) and grit in the bottom 6. Few fighters, but a handful of guys who are willing to drop the gloves. Those teams were questioned for toughness, but nobody questioned their heart or ability to step up when it mattered

I see a lot of that on this team that we are building. Other teams may be tougher, and they may outgoon or outhit us, but they won't outwork or out will us. I also think this team will be more comfortable asserting themselves as they mature - I think their inexperience showed in today's game.

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03-03-2013, 01:36 AM
  #255
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The Red Wings are a pretty bad example if you are trying to identify what a tough team is. Detroit hasn't really iced a tough team since the earl-to-mid 90s. Calling the Red wings of the past decade "tough" would be inaccurate.

If you are looking for the standards of what a very "tough" team is, then the best examples are the 2007 Anaheim Ducks, the 2011 Boston Bruins and the 2012 LA Kings. The Bruins and the Kings are still tough now considering that their rosters haven't changed that much since winning the Stanley Cup. The Penguins and the Flyers are also decent examples, but to a lesser extent.

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03-03-2013, 05:31 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Legend Killer View Post
Did you see Regin getting mauled after the whistle? With Neil, Methot, Smith and Gryba on the ice... Nothing

Did you see Phillips getting embarassed by Fedotenko near the bench? Getting facewashed and bent over the boards? Again.... No response

Did u see Talbot chopping our goalie after he had the puck covered in our crease? Small scrum which included more of our guys getting facewashed

We actually looked EXACTLY like teams in the Jacques Martin days.

Dennis Potvin almost lost his marbles when Smith wouldnt fight Rinaldo(not the other way around)

Neil turned back to go after somebody(dont remember) and Simmonds went up to Neil, gave him a tap and Neil just passed him. 2 minutes later Simmonds scored.

It was embarassing

Phillips is a disgrace.

His jersey better not hang in the rafters of SBP, EVER.

I don't think he brings anything positive to this team.

I rather Lundin any day over Chris Phillips.

Yesterday was embarrassing. Except for Alfie. True captain who actually sees what's going on and does something, even though he's the smallest guy on the team.

Carkner even if injured brings more to this team than Phillips.......okay I'm done.

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03-03-2013, 05:55 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Capital O TEETEE 613 View Post
Phillips is a disgrace.

His jersey better not hang in the rafters of SBP, EVER.

I don't think he brings anything positive to this team.

I rather Lundin any day over Chris Phillips.

Yesterday was embarrassing. Except for Alfie. True captain who actually sees what's going on and does something, even though he's the smallest guy on the team.

Carkner even if injured brings more to this team than Phillips.......okay I'm done.
Pretty sure Phillips had a serious eye injury at one point that prevents him from fighting, if thats what you meant. Otherwise he would handle almost anyone easily with his size.

So I'd research a bit more about the player before calling him a disgrace or maybe look at what he did his first 900 or so NHL games instead of what he's done lately.

If you're talking about his play in general, he was a steady top pairing dman for 900 games and some players drop off after that point. It was expected for his game to get worse, just like Alfie's has.

i can't recall Phillips ever getting hit like that yesterday though, the guy is a tank.


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03-03-2013, 06:14 AM
  #258
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Pretty sure Phillips had a serious eye injury at one point that prevents him from fighting, if thats what you meant. Otherwise he would handle almost anyone easily with his size.

So I'd research a bit more about the player before calling him a disgrace.

If you're talking about his play in general, he was a steady top pairing dman for 900 games and some players drop off after that point. It was expected for his game to get worse, just like Alfie's has.

i can't recall Phillips ever getting hit like that yesterday though, the guy is a tank.
I don't need to research anything. I've watched Chris Phillips in at least 90% of his games played.

I don't expect him to fight, I expect him to give a ****.

I dont care about his eye. If anyone gets hit in the eye it could be bad.

Phillips has other things on his mind other than hockey, and that's fine, but it's not fine for this team. (family, business, health)

If he showed half the passion that he did during the lockout, I wouldn't be so angry. Phillips was more angry at bettman, than any Flyer yesterday, that's for sure.

Phillips was a disgrace of a hockey player yesterday, and it pissed me off bigtime.


Last edited by Dysentery: 03-03-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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03-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Pretty sure Phillips had a serious eye injury at one point that prevents him from fighting, if thats what you meant. Otherwise he would handle almost anyone easily with his size.

So I'd research a bit more about the player before calling him a disgrace or maybe look at what he did his first 900 or so NHL games instead of what he's done lately.

If you're talking about his play in general, he was a steady top pairing dman for 900 games and some players drop off after that point. It was expected for his game to get worse, just like Alfie's has.

i can't recall Phillips ever getting hit like that yesterday though, the guy is a tank.
If he has an eye issue bad enough that a punch could blind him, he should retire.

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03-03-2013, 01:01 PM
  #260
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If he has an eye issue bad enough that a punch could blind him, he should retire.
Or wear a cage... Fact of the matter is, Phillips, like many of our players are friendly giants.

After Harry Z smoked Lundin and the scrum was forming. Rinaldo had his gloves off looking for someone, anyone to fight.

When a scrum happens our guys usually get facewashed and squeeze their gloves even harder so they cant come off.

Do I want all of our players to be like Rinaldo? No. But this team has had the same problem forever.

Last year in the playoffs we needed Carkner to come in Game 2 to deal with Boyle punking EK. Why not Neil, Smith, Greening, etc??

This year when Cooke hit EK and took him out for the year. Nobody did anything till there was a minute left in the game. A few glove punches. Big deal. Dont give me the "they were in shock" "they cared more about the 2 points" excuse either.

Same thing yesterday when Talbot chops Bishop well after the puck is covered. You cant accept that. They looked like losers and didnt get the 2 points.

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03-03-2013, 01:49 PM
  #261
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The karlsson injury proved that this team is soft. Its hilarious people think this team has any ounce of toughness. The team is soft when Neil is the main enforcer and we've seen it before carkner came up. Its time to find another carkner and konopka as well as a pure goon.

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03-03-2013, 01:57 PM
  #262
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The karlsson injury proved that this team is soft.
Explain this statement.

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03-03-2013, 02:07 PM
  #263
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Explain this statement.
Your best player taken out by a player with a dirty reputation and who has gone after him before. And all he got were a couple of glove shots to face. That to me is soft.

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03-03-2013, 02:21 PM
  #264
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Your best player taken out by a player with a dirty reputation and who has gone after him before. And all he got were a couple of glove shots to face. That to me is soft.
Marc Crawford? Is that you?

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03-03-2013, 02:32 PM
  #265
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Marc Crawford? Is that you?
Just calling it how I see it. If carkner and konopka were there for that game there would have been fireworks.

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03-03-2013, 02:33 PM
  #266
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Just calling it how I see it. If carkner and konopka were there for that game there would have been fireworks.
And we still would have lost and be without our Norris winner.

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03-03-2013, 02:49 PM
  #267
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And we still would have lost and be without our Norris winner.
O, I've accepted that he isnt coming back. But if teams keep taking runs at our players and they have the mentality of "we'll get them back on the pp or we shouldn't do anything cause it wont undo the damage done", well its only a matter of time till other teams start taking liberties on them game after game after game. I would rather be the 07 ducks or 11 bruins than the 08 wings. Look at the habs or sabres and how the bruins forced them to get goons since their players were too soft to do anything. I do not want to see the sens head down that road.

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03-03-2013, 03:46 PM
  #268
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My problem is the tough guys on ottawa aren't playing physical like they normally do.

Chris neil hasn't had a huge hit this year. The closest thing to a big hit was a hit he got called for boarding in the first game of the year against the jets. Where are chris neils huge hits?

I'm also seeing zack smith watch smaller guys come to the defense of their teamates. He should be stepping in.

Also, Gryba doesn't look as mean around the net as he has in the past.

Methot has been physical, but i thought he would be meaner.

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03-03-2013, 04:02 PM
  #269
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My problem is the tough guys on ottawa aren't playing physical like they normally do.

Chris neil hasn't had a huge hit this year. The closest thing to a big hit was a hit he got called for boarding in the first game of the year against the jets. Where are chris neils huge hits?

I'm also seeing zack smith watch smaller guys come to the defense of their teamates. He should be stepping in.

Also, Gryba doesn't look as mean around the net as he has in the past.

Methot has been physical, but i thought he would be meaner.
my sentiments exactly. our number one priority is to add skill. if we lacked toughness you'd see kramer or someone else coming in. but i don't see that happening.

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03-03-2013, 04:19 PM
  #270
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Smith is our best faceoff man and Neil is one of our better wingers, we need them on the ice right now and need to score more goals.

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03-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #271
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Smith is our best faceoff man and Neil is one of our better wingers, we need them on the ice right now and need to score more goals.
well you just made my point. we don't need more tough guys. we need skill guys so that smith and neil can go back to their roles. tough guys.

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03-03-2013, 06:37 PM
  #272
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well you just made my point. we don't need more tough guys. we need skill guys so that smith and neil can go back to their roles. tough guys.
We don't have that right now, so until we do, we need more toughness.

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03-03-2013, 06:53 PM
  #273
BonkTastic
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So did we lose to the Islanders today because we need more "toughness"?

25 goals in our last 16 games.
1.56gpg.
For those keeping track, that's a league-worst pace, there.

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03-03-2013, 07:07 PM
  #274
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So did we lose to the Islanders today because we need more "toughness"?

25 goals in our last 16 games.
1.56gpg.
For those keeping track, that's a league-worst pace, there.
Toughness only becomes an issue when we are playing tough teams. Teams like Boston, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent New York (Rangers) are the teams in the east that can give us problems in terms of the physical elements of the game. We plays those teams often in the regular season and in the event that we make the playoffs there is a good chance that we could play one or multiple of those teams contingent on our playoff success. With our current toughness situation, we will wear out quickly in a 7 game series with most of the teams on that list.

Just because lack of offense is the primary issue, doesn't mean that lack of toughness isn't an issue.

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03-03-2013, 07:09 PM
  #275
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We don't have that right now, so until we do, we need more toughness.
It also is going to cost a whole hell of a lot more to improve the offense than to improve the toughness. Murray should be actively looking to improve the skill of this team but in the meantime he can make a more minor trade to help up the toughness level.

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