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Howson's Drafting

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Old
03-03-2013, 09:06 PM
  #101
eljefe72
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Hell no. No, no, no. Not ever.

It's already bad enough you can't drink until your 21, now were going to say you can't do your trade until 20 or later? It's bad enough they scam the players like they do with the college football/pro football relationship.

If you can die for your country you can gain employment in hockey.

Now let's get back to Howson's draft record.
You're comparing government mandates and laws (join military/draft at 18, drinking age at 21, etc.) with policies of a private organization (the NHL). The NHL can make it's minimum age eligibility for the draft whatever it wants. The government has nothing to do with it.

Though I do agree with you that the league shouldn't make any such policy.

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03-03-2013, 09:22 PM
  #102
Mayor Bee
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Howson was a good GM here. He cleaned up the mess XGMDM started, and he got us to the playoffs. His only mistakes in my mind were the trade for Carter, Hiring Arniel, and drafting Filatov. You can argue that firing Hitchcock is in there too, but at the time it was justified and needed because the team had quit on him. He had some solid picks in the later rounds that will help the team in the long run. He was hardly ever hosed on trades, and at least got fair return in a lot of them. He set the foundation for the team, and its Jarmo and JD's job to build on the foundation.
I think that, over time, this will come to be the middle ground around which a near-consensus is formed.

I remember when Richard Nixon died, there was a political cartoon that had an artist painting a portrait titled "Nixon Legacy". An observer standing near the artist asked why it was being painted so slowly, and the artist said something like, "Just calm down. This is quite a bit more complex than they usually are."

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03-03-2013, 11:17 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by eljefe72 View Post
You're comparing government mandates and laws (join military/draft at 18, drinking age at 21, etc.) with policies of a private organization (the NHL). The NHL can make it's minimum age eligibility for the draft whatever it wants. The government has nothing to do with it.

Though I do agree with you that the league shouldn't make any such policy.
I am saying, if you are 18 you should be able to do your trade. If you are an adult, you should be treated like one. The NHL should not be able to restrict draft age, nor should the NFL, once they are adults.

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03-03-2013, 11:45 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I think that, over time, this will come to be the middle ground around which a near-consensus is formed.

I remember when Richard Nixon died, there was a political cartoon that had an artist painting a portrait titled "Nixon Legacy". An observer standing near the artist asked why it was being painted so slowly, and the artist said something like, "Just calm down. This is quite a bit more complex than they usually are."
Since this has become the Howson's Legacy thread, let me go ahead and give my view.

The consensus will never, and should never, be that Scott Howson was a good GM of the BlueJackets. This team was awful last year and it isn't much better now, and we're 6 years after Howson's hiring. Building a winner is the most important metric.

But Howson's drafting and trading wasn't bad. You can find my draft analysis on page 3 of this thread. Here is a quick and dirty analysis for trades:

Glencross for Tarnstrom. -- value.
Turning Foote into Umberger. ++ value.
Zherdev for Tyutin. ++ value.
Leclaire for Vermette. ++ value.
Chimera for Clark/Jurcina. - value.
Klesla for Lepisto/Upshall. - value.
Voracek/#8 for Carter. -- value.
4th rounder for Letestu. + value.
Russell for Nikitin. + value.

This looks mildly positive to me, and its too early to make definitive judgments about the Carter and Nash trades.

I think Howson has added value to the organization, its just currently embedded in our picks, prospects, and depth. Years down the road, we might come to feel good about Howson, but I won't ever say he was a good GM just maybe not bad.

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03-03-2013, 11:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Howson was a good GM here. He cleaned up the mess XGMDM started, and he got us to the playoffs. His only mistakes in my mind were the trade for Carter, Hiring Arniel, and drafting Filatov. You can argue that firing Hitchcock is in there too, but at the time it was justified and needed because the team had quit on him. He had some solid picks in the later rounds that will help the team in the long run. He was hardly ever hosed on trades, and at least got fair return in a lot of them. He set the foundation for the team, and its Jarmo and JD's job to build on the foundation.
I still think the Carter trade was a top down move that Howson had to go along with. And though Filly was a big big bust, I think it's hard to pin that on SH because he was a consensus pick, not a reach.

So those two moves to me don't reflect what he did here.

But Arniel is on him, and big contracts to unproven players are, too. I'm loyal to a fault and I like Howson and I do think he's smart. Was genuinely sad to see him fired.

But it's true that he was not able to build a winning team and in fact assembled a squad that played really really bad hockey. That's on him, too.

I agree that in many ways the jury is still out on him. But some things I can't ignore anymore.

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03-04-2013, 04:41 AM
  #106
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I'm peeking here cause I wanted to see what was the fans reaction to this team's constant struggle to get out of the bottom 5.

I think it goes without saying that teams such as Columbus, Islanders, Florida. Simply can't pay up for teams that have legitimate chances of winning playoffs series. So they try the Pittsburgh approach and hope to draft the next Crosby or Malkin.

I think there's GMs out there who think the only way they can achieve success is by drafting skillful rookies and fail to realize the importance of depth players. Just look at Edmonton, they have the best talent pool of rookies in the league but they barely fair better than you guys, while teams like Minnesota have never drafted in the top 5, still make up a competitive team by acquiring good depth players.

I think winning organizations know that success comes not from having star players but by having guys that can win battles along the board in the D end, clear the zone on the PK, having physical players that will avenge their teammates if they are bullied etc.


Last edited by Alexdaman: 03-04-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old
03-04-2013, 07:18 AM
  #107
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
I'm peeking here cause I wanted to see what was the fans reaction to this team's constant struggle to get out of the bottom 5.

I think it goes without saying that teams such as Columbus, Islanders, Florida. Simply can't pay up for teams that have legitimate chances of winning playoffs series. So they try the Pittsburgh approach and hope to draft the next Crosby or Malkin.

I think there's GMs out there who think the only way they can achieve success is by drafting skillful rookies and fail to realize the importance of depth players. Just look at Edmonton, they have the best talent pool of rookies in the league but they barely fair better than you guys, while teams like Minnesota have never drafted in the top 5, still make up a competitive team by acquiring good depth players.

I think winning organizations know that success comes not from having star players but by having guys that can win battles along the board in the D end, clear the zone on the PK, having physical players that will avenge their teammates if they are bullied etc.
We have an entire team made up of depth players, it's the Malkin/Crosby players that we lack. However they are acquired, pay for them or draft them, first line players are among the most important additions needed for this team to improve.

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Old
03-04-2013, 08:32 AM
  #108
KeithBWhittington
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Originally Posted by CBJ103 View Post
You might want to add to your list of Howson mistakes : assembling a team which finished dead last in the NHL last year and is the odds on favorite to do so again this year. Given that assembling a competitive team is one of the main responsibilities of a GM, I would consider this a fairly major problem.

It is a fairly major problem. A problem that couldn't, and shouldn't, be ignored. I'm always ready to admit when I'm seeing successful things Scott Howson did, but when you look at really the last 3 full seasons on the ice, The way his teams quit on coaching..... I mean, it was bad under MacLean, but for my money, the most depressing on ice performances mostly occured under Howson. Not just because they are fresh in my mind either, getting blownout in 9-2 games, 8-0 games, 10-1 games..... And worse, it was a rather consistent outcome. It would be impossible to justify him staying employed as the General Manager here.

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