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Danny Briere: activated Apr. 11 (concussion Mar. 25); Q and A article Apr. 11

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Old
03-03-2013, 06:08 PM
  #226
Clown Baby
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Without pointing at anyone in particular in this thread, I do find it funny that there are so many who criticise others for trade proposals and use the term 'it's definitely going to take' and 'that's not enough' all over the place, but I can't remember a single trade that's actually happened where the HF brain trust has deemed it fair value.
Hanzus for Calder was pretty popular at the time.

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03-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Without pointing at anyone in particular in this thread, I do find it funny that there are so many who criticise others for trade proposals and use the term 'it's definitely going to take' and 'that's not enough' all over the place, but I can't remember a single trade that's actually happened where the HF brain trust has deemed it fair value.
Don't be silly. The majority of folks on here are completely reasonable. No one has any bias toward teams, players, or personnel.

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03-03-2013, 08:23 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
JVR for L. Schenn straight up was a somewhat popular proposal by non-Flyers and Leafs fans.
Wait, so you're saying that there were people not named Paul Holmgren that thought this would address both teams' issues even before the trade was made?

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03-03-2013, 08:43 PM
  #229
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If we make the playoffs and then don't have Briere we'll look back on an awful mistake. Some players are money in the playoffs and Briere is one of them. Remember in the 2010playoffs he was only one point of Gretsky's alltime scoring points for playoffs. You want to trade the guy who is money in the playoffs?

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03-03-2013, 09:02 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by gto64dr View Post
If we make the playoffs and then don't have Briere we'll look back on an awful mistake. Some players are money in the playoffs and Briere is one of them. Remember in the 2010playoffs he was only one point of Gretsky's alltime scoring points for playoffs. You want to trade the guy who is money in the playoffs?
yes...and i wouldnt look back.

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03-03-2013, 09:34 PM
  #231
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sorry, can't keep dead weight on this team "hoping we make the playoffs, then he'll play well"

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03-03-2013, 10:14 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gto64dr View Post
If we make the playoffs and then don't have Briere we'll look back on an awful mistake. Some players are money in the playoffs and Briere is one of them. Remember in the 2010playoffs he was only one point of Gretsky's alltime scoring points for playoffs. You want to trade the guy who is money in the playoffs?
Then in 2011 when things got tough vs Boston and 2012 when they played NJ, where was he? He needs guys to cover up for his defense and if they aren't available, he's worse than useless.

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03-03-2013, 10:51 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Then in 2011 when things got tough vs Boston and 2012 when they played NJ, where was he? He needs guys to cover up for his defense and if they aren't available, he's worse than useless.
if the puck isn't on his stick, and if he's not in playoff mode when that puck is on his stick, he's rather useless

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03-03-2013, 11:28 PM
  #234
Bernie Parent 1974
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this was THE WORST !!!! watch the view from behind the net starting at :53


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Old
03-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #235
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When you actually run the numbers, during Briere’s 5 year Flyers career, he’s had significantly more points in the playoffs than in the regular season 2 times:
09-10, where he was 0.71 PPG in the regular season and 1.30 PPG in the playoffs
11-12 when he was 0.70 PPG in the regular season and 1.18 PPG in the playoffs

He had one year where he was slightly more productive in the playoffs than the regular season:
07-08, where he was .91 PPG in the regular season and .94 PPG in the playoffs.


Briere had one year where he was slightly less productive in the playoffs than the regular season:
10-11, where he was .88 PPG in the playoffs and .82 PPG in the playoffs

He also had a year where he was significantly less productive in the playoffs than in the regular season:
08-09, where he was .86 PPG in the regular season and .67 PPG in the playoffs


So all in all, Briere has exceed his regular season PPG 3 out of 5 years in Orange and Black. Far from the guaranteed playoff stud some people around here would like to make him out to be. If we extend the analysis to his Buffalo and Phoenix years, the number declines to 3 out of 8 years, meaning that over his career, he’s been WORSE in the playoffs than in the regular season 5 out of 8 seasons, or 62.5% of the time.

So far, this isn’t looking to good for Briere, and this is just looking at the stats that all the Briere-huggers love to bring up as the bread and butter for keeping him or for his trade value being through the roof; his playoff point production.

When we look at the quality of his play in the defensive end, the argument for Briere totally disintegrates.

Last year in the playoffs for example, he was 8th among our top 12 forwards in Quality of Competition faced, played the most sheltered minutes (started in the Offensive zone 68.1% of the time, highest % on team), but he finished in the O-Zone only 58.9% of the time. That drop off from Ozone-Starts to Finishes was 2nd worst on the team to only Jagr. Despite playing all these sheltered minutes against poor opponents, Danny B ended up Tied for the 2nd worst +/- on the team.

2 years ago in the playoffs wasn’t much better. He was again 8th among our top 12 forwards in QoC, 4th in Offensive zone starts (60.9%) and 4th in drop off from ozone start% to ozone finish% (behind Leino, Zherdev, and Hartnell). Despite playing all these sheltered minutes against poor opponents, Briere finished dead last among our forwards in +/- and actually performed at a worse PPG rate than in the regular season.
________________________________________________

The fact is, Briere is no longer worth his cap hit, no longer worth a spot in our top 6, and he certainly isn’t worth some of the trade proposals people are asking for here, ala Rundblad + 1st. NHL GMs might make poor moves on occasion, but they don’t overpay for guys like Briere on poor contracts because there’s a misconception going around that he’s a “guaranteed playoff performer".

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:39 PM
  #236
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The people who make an argument against Briere being clutch are hilarious.


Regardless of his defensive abilities, when we need a big goal, Briere is often the one to bury it in the playoffs. I dont care what his PPG was relative to his regular season numbers, I can see with my own two eyes when he scores a big goal-- and it happens a lot.

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03-03-2013, 11:48 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The people who make an argument against Briere being clutch are hilarious.


Regardless of his defensive abilities, when we need a big goal, Briere is often the one to bury it in the playoffs. I dont care what his PPG was relative to his regular season numbers, I can see with my own two eyes when he scores a big goal-- and it happens a lot.
Do your own two eyes happen to notice when one of his many turnovers directly results in a big goal against us? Because that happens A LOT too. But I mean, he gets paid to score goals, not prevent them, so who really cares, right? Danny can score the game-winning goal one night and then be part of the opposing team's game-winning goals the next two nights, but he'll still be thought of as clutch.

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03-03-2013, 11:56 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The people who make an argument against Briere being clutch are hilarious.
Case in point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Briere has exceed his regular season PPG 3 out of 5 years in Orange and Black. Far from the guaranteed playoff stud some people around here would like to make him out to be.
Where did this weird, entitled mentality come from where there are 100% consistent guarantees in sports? You run into that all the time on the boards. Soccer trophy generation?

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Old
03-04-2013, 12:20 AM
  #239
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Playoff GWG (Active)
1. J. Jagr (16)
2. D. Briere (13)

Playoff Points (Active)
1. J. Jagr (189)
2. P. Elias (125)
3. C. Pronger (121)
4. D. Briere (109)

He's not even top 20 for GP in playoffs either. He scores when it counts and is most dangerous when its on the line. That's all I need to know. The eye test tells me he is the definition of clutch.

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03-04-2013, 12:36 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Playoff GWG (Active)
1. J. Jagr (16)
2. D. Briere (13)

Playoff Points (Active)
1. J. Jagr (189)
2. P. Elias (125)
3. C. Pronger (121)
4. D. Briere (109)

He's not even top 20 for GP in playoffs either. He scores when it counts and is most dangerous when its on the line. That's all I need to know. The eye test tells me he is the definition of clutch.
****ing right! screw all these briere haters

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03-04-2013, 12:40 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Cardds View Post
****ing right! screw all these briere haters


He should be bought out or traded. He's useless, this team isn't winning a cup any time soon.

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Old
03-04-2013, 12:43 AM
  #242
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
Case in point:
Where did this weird, entitled mentality come from where there are 100% consistent guarantees in sports? You run into that all the time on the boards. Soccer trophy generation?
How did that quote make me seem entitled? I don't think I'm entitled to anything. If anything it's the Briere fanboys who seem entitled, all but gauranteeing that Danny will turn it on for this playoff run, regardless of how poorly he plays in the regular season.

I was simply making the point that there are people on this board arguing that Danny B will be a major factor in the playoffs for any team he's traded to and/or that if we trade him we would miss him majorly. The stats don't show that.

Danny B overall has a higher PPG avg in the playoffs than in the regular season, but he's not *consistently* better. There's a large standard deviation / variance between his performances in the playoffs year by year. He could post a better PPG avg this playoff run than he did this regular season or he could post a worse PPG avg this playoff run than he did this regular season. Obviously both outcomes are possible, but the pure statistics show he's gotten worse in the playoffs in over 60% of his NHL seasons. So I can't look at him "turning it on in the playoffs" as a reason for me not to trade him. It's just factually not true.

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03-04-2013, 01:23 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
How did that quote make me seem entitled? I don't think I'm entitled to anything. If anything it's the Briere fanboys who seem entitled, all but gauranteeing that Danny will turn it on for this playoff run, regardless of how poorly he plays in the regular season.

I was simply making the point that there are people on this board arguing that Danny B will be a major factor in the playoffs for any team he's traded to and/or that if we trade him we would miss him majorly. The stats don't show that.

Danny B overall has a higher PPG avg in the playoffs than in the regular season, but he's not *consistently* better. There's a large standard deviation / variance between his performances in the playoffs year by year. He could post a better PPG avg this playoff run than he did this regular season or he could post a worse PPG avg this playoff run than he did this regular season. Obviously both outcomes are possible, but the pure statistics show he's gotten worse in the playoffs in over 60% of his NHL seasons. So I can't look at him "turning it on in the playoffs" as a reason for me not to trade him. It's just factually not true.
You're really grasping at straws to try to deny what everybody knows for certain.

What you should do is just accept that he's a playoff performer, but opine that you'd still like to see him gone. There's no need to contrive an infallible argument to justify having an opinion. It's just not necessary.

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03-04-2013, 01:40 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
You're really grasping at straws to try to deny what everybody knows for certain.

What you should do is just accept that he's a playoff performer, but opine that you'd still like to see him gone. There's no need to contrive an infallible argument to justify having an opinion. It's just not necessary.
I don't think I ever tried to deny that Danny B's overall stats in the playoffs are impressive. When Danny B shows up for the playoffs, he's one of the most deadly scorers in the current NHL. Indeed, perhaps in playoff history, as his numbers are that impressive over his career. I've never attempted to deny that.

For like the 5th time now, all I'm saying is that you cannot use the fact that he elevated his PPG from the regular season to the playoffs 3 times in 8 years in the past as justification that he's going to do it again.

Danny has had a great career in general, especially in the playoffs, but he's not a guarantee to show up big for the playoffs, as some in here have asserted. Briere has "elevated" his game beyond his game in the regular season 3 times in 8 years. That means he's worse than a 40% proposition to do it this season, yet there's tons of people here acting like it's a virtual certainty that Danny B will turn it on in the playoffs again this season.

Claude Giroux on the other hand has posted a better PPG in the playoffs than in the regular season 4 times in 4 years. I'll take that over Danny B any day of the week and twice on Sunday. That's the "consistency" that I was talking about.

Beyond the points though, there's the terrible defense, the lollygagging on the back-check, the fact that he's been bumped from the #1 powerplay, etc. It's time for him to go.

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03-04-2013, 02:26 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post


He should be bought out or traded. He's useless, this team isn't winning a cup any time soon.
He's had between 8-12 goals in 4 out of 5 postseasons with the Flyers. I can't think of any other Flyer who has done this (please go ahead and call me out on this, I really don't know for sure). I know Lindros had 12 goals in the 1997 postseason, but still not as consistent as Briere in the last 5 years.

also, I know this is old but:

"He had 106 points in 104 postseason games, making him one of only 19 players in N.H.L. history to average at least one point a game in at least 100 playoff games."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/sp...ayer.html?_r=0

That is of course before that Game 3 OT loss to the Devils, which I agree wasn't good defending on Briere's part. But I'm still glad Briere is on our team in the postseason.


Last edited by Cardds: 03-04-2013 at 02:38 AM.
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03-04-2013, 03:30 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post


He should be bought out or traded. He's useless, this team isn't winning a cup any time soon.
He's just as useless as Jagr! one of the pillars of the locker room, a role model for the younger players. How does it come that everyone has already forgotton that Couts moved in with Briere and his early success is related to the environment and guidance Briere provided?!

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Old
03-04-2013, 06:46 AM
  #247
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wasnt there a website that broke down Briere's playoff points, as well as the goals that are scored against when he's on the ice that shows that not only does his production go up, but also more goals are scored when he's on the ice?

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03-04-2013, 07:51 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
He also had a year where he was significantly less productive in the playoffs than in the regular season:
08-09, where he was .86 PPG in the regular season and .67 PPG in the playoffs
That's just brilliant. He played a grand total of 35 games that season, 6 of those being playoff games.
Talk about a small sample size.

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03-04-2013, 08:03 AM
  #249
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It comes down to managing assets. Is the potential of Daniel Brière's playoff strength for this season (questionable making the playoffs) and next plus his veteran leadership greater than the potential return (assuming he waives his NMC), the mediocre regular-season play we are seeing, his age-related regression in play plus the added cap space?

I think the phrasing of this question shows which way I'm leaning.

I thought of adding the potential to resign Brière for a more reasonable salary / cap hit on the advantages side, but I have no faith that Holmgren could swing such a deal based on what he gave Timonen.

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03-04-2013, 08:11 AM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Playoff GWG (Active)
1. J. Jagr (16)
2. D. Briere (13)

Playoff Points (Active)
1. J. Jagr (189)
2. P. Elias (125)
3. C. Pronger (121)
4. D. Briere (109)

He's not even top 20 for GP in playoffs either. He scores when it counts and is most dangerous when its on the line. That's all I need to know. The eye test tells me he is the definition of clutch.
Because you only see one end of the ice.

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