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Old
03-03-2013, 10:41 PM
  #51
senorchang
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
Ill leave this here...

We all want to talk trades and fire coaches... But for those talking about needing personnel change, look at the 2009-2010 roster on hockeydb, out of the 40 players that played that season, over 75% of our roster has been overhauled in 2 years.

Yes, 7 skaters and 2 goalies remain from FOURTY!!!
whats funnier is the percentage of nhlers still playing from that roster

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03-03-2013, 10:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
Ill leave this here...

We all want to talk trades and fire coaches... But for those talking about needing personnel change, look at the 2009-2010 roster on hockeydb, out of the 40 players that played that season, over 75% of our roster has been overhauled in 2 years.

Yes, 7 skaters and 2 goalies remain from FOURTY!!!
Tambo did make a lot of changes those first couple of years but they were to get rid of bad contracts and some older players that didn't really have a place here anymore. I'm more interested in the players he brought in. I you look at that group there's very little to get excited about.

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03-03-2013, 10:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
If you actually look at Burke's trading record, he wins most of the deals. He also drafts very well and doesn't need a 1st overall to get a good player (hint: he drafted Justin Schultz too).

The move to offer sheet Kessel had the fingerprints of an impatient ownership group anyway.

The Leafs are better than the Oilers, despite the Oilers having three 1st overalls and hitting pay dirt with Eberle too and another two top ten picks in Gagner and MPS. Burke inherited pure crap when he went to Toronto, Tambellini is bumbling around with all this talent unable to ice a competent team even.
He's ok at making deals, but he nullifies it with his routinely horrible UFA signings. It isn't a good thing in a league where there are few trades, and everything is based around cap management.

You can't blame anything on the ownership group in TO either. He demanded and was granted autonomy when they brought him in. The Kessel deal was all Burke, and will easily go down as the worst in franchise history over the next couple of years when Kessel likely walks as a UFA.

His disastous run in Vancouver, the major nose-dive after a short honeymoon period in Anaheim, and his ineffective run in TO all point to one thing - he isn't a good GM

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03-03-2013, 10:46 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
The only good thing about this year outside of decent goaltending and decent starts for Yakupov/Schultz is that Hemsky and Gagner have tremendously boosted their trade value.

Tambellini can't say he has nothing to work with on the trade market. Start addressing needs. Now.
Gagner is our heart and soul this season. I can't even imagine watching games without him now.

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03-03-2013, 10:53 PM
  #55
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Seriously, how many NHL teams fire coaches, but don't allow the replacements to hire their own assistants? Why is Buchberger still here? Steve Smith? Does Krueger actually want these guys as part of his staff? Whats next, Assistant Coach Horcoff? Don't laugh, it'll probably happen. Nothing changes because it's the owner's toy, and he's making a ***** load of $$. What incentive is there for him until he starts losing $$? When is Katz going to demand a hunk of playoff revenue, which at this point, doesn't look like it's going to happen for a long-long time.

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03-03-2013, 10:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
Ill leave this here...

We all want to talk trades and fire coaches... But for those talking about needing personnel change, look at the 2009-2010 roster on hockeydb, out of the 40 players that played that season, over 75% of our roster has been overhauled in 2 years.

Yes, 7 skaters and 2 goalies remain from FOURTY!!!
Sorry, but that just proves the point that management is so incompetant they can build a proper hockey team... Just moving around the deck chairs doesn't help....You need someone in management that is smart, creative, good reputation around the league, etc. Someone who can see the big picture and make the necessary moves. Frankly, I don't see that man with the Oilers.

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03-03-2013, 11:10 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Stop going to the games
but katz may move the team (if someone puts a monkey wrench in the arena deal)............

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03-03-2013, 11:21 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
The team can't draft or develop players whatsoever and any player that is brought in via free agency or trade plays the worst hockey of their career. The years we managed to get the surefire first overall picks that we don't have to have any kind of extra skill develop, happened to be some of the most mediocre first overall drafts in recent memory. There's no winning tradition with this team. It's a graveyard.
This is the sad reality. At this point I'm not even sure if changing management changes the losing culture and the stink of failure permeating from this organization.

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03-03-2013, 11:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by elpol View Post
Seriously, how many NHL teams fire coaches, but don't allow the replacements to hire their own assistants? Why is Buchberger still here? Steve Smith? Does Krueger actually want these guys as part of his staff? Whats next, Assistant Coach Horcoff? Don't laugh, it'll probably happen. Nothing changes because it's the owner's toy, and he's making a ***** load of $$. What incentive is there for him until he starts losing $$? When is Katz going to demand a hunk of playoff revenue, which at this point, doesn't look like it's going to happen for a long-long time.
If they manage to force Smyth into retirement in the off-season they'll probably retain him as an assistant coach or something.

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03-03-2013, 11:32 PM
  #60
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Someone who knows Katz really needs to tell him to PM me here so i can give him the NewAge Hockey System data before we flush this entire season over a few simple technical system adjustments. he has no reason to deny results, and if he simply read the GDTs here and evaluated the posted adjustments by many fans he would have no choice but to see what is wrong with his business, anyone can see what is wrong if they know where to look. The team desperately needs Intuative Dynamic Analysis input on EVERY level, this is like an emergency organ transplant type of urgency, we are terminal as things stand tonight, we need help and we need it now. I dont see many other offers of anything tangible being bantered around. Last time i checked the yellow pages there were no Intuative Dynamic Analysts listed in this timezone. So the availability issue is solved with a simple PM, now someone with a connection to Daryl needs to pay it forward.

There are only 4 d-zone exit adjustments we need to consider with this system, everyting is catalysed from those 4 tactics, all of our offense, everything. It is very very easy to see how and where we are being beaten cleanly, and it is 100% system and coach based error sinking us, 100%.

We can keep the Coach but we cannot keep the system. We are out of time, we need to act now, this will not go away between now and next season in fact it will worsen.

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Old
03-03-2013, 11:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Quit using facts!

So what is the solution? Does cleaning out the GM guarantee instant results? Or firing the coach? Or making a trade?
i wouldn't say that would work, but those of us who have lost patience and confidence have done so because we have not seen even the tiniest shred of proof that Tambellini is an effective GM.

It is not that I expect the team to be a contender this year or even next. I simply nolonger believe that Oilers' management can get it done. We've seen other teams make acquisitions that improved their lineups by trading assets that were lesser than what Tambo has at his disposal. He is caught sleeping at the wheel over and over again.

Tambo intends to draft and develop every single roster position on the team. IOW, don't expect to win before Hall's and Eberle's contracts are completed.

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03-04-2013, 12:02 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
If they manage to force Smyth into retirement in the off-season they'll probably retain him as an assistant coach or something.

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Old
03-04-2013, 12:13 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
I think we need to make at least five more fire management threads.

And two more fire Kruegers.

THAT should get the Oilers attention!
Worked for Mactavish.

Well, only sort of, because like a bad rash, he never really goes away.

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Old
03-04-2013, 12:19 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Marginally improving the team is bad, but making reactionary trades that lose significant value is worse.

I don't care if they move the lesser pieces but with Gagner/Hemsky/anyone with more value, I think we should wait for the right deal.
Is it really "reactionary" when we've been watching this same show ever since our last trip to the SCF? (BTW, I've never been one to think Gagner should be moved though.. nor do I think there is much wrong in the top six of this team)

I am with the OP when they say that it isn't the coaches fault. We're on coach 4 in 5 years. Management should be out the door, really. But I don't see that happening with Katz around.

I will say that I do think our top six is fairly decent, but we're missing some solid complimentary players in the bottom six that will fill in when this team is struggling. I think we need more of the Ryan Jones types and less of the Ben Eager / Chris Vande Velde's that, while they don't do much harm, aren't doing much good either.

I also think we have to let guys like Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Lander, etc. develop in the minors more rather than have them fill in up here (as much as I like them all... possible exception for Hartikainen to stay here as he is closest to NHL ready). Of course two of the aforementioned are injured and not a current issue, but what I'm getting at is we need some solid NHL-level filler players here.

I also have always been a big fan of Smytty, but not sure he can get the job done for us anymore. The only guys in our bottom six that I'd really hang on to are Ryan Jones and Lennart Petrell (shockingly enough... I think he is very good at his role and is good enough for a 4th line winger).

Other than that, I would tear that bottom six apart and do what it takes to get some quality guys in there. It's easier said than done, but we need secondary scoring. When our top 2 lines with all their talent can't score, we need guys that can get their noses dirty and put it in the net.

Our top six doesn't need bigger players though or anything silly like that, as I think they can hold their own.. but they will be prone to slump, and that's where a strong bottom six can come in and help out.

Most of all, we need to stop making excuses for Management already. It's not like this is a knee jerk reaction after a game or two. We've been bottom feeders for several years!


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Old
03-04-2013, 12:22 AM
  #65
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Is it really "reactionary" when we've been watching this same show ever since our last trip to the SCF?

I am with the OP when they say that it isn't the coaches fault. We're on coach 4 in 5 years. Management should be out the door, really. But I don't see that happening with Katz around.

I will say that I do think our top six is fairly decent, but we're missing some solid complimentary players in the bottom six that will fill in when this team is struggling. I think we need more of the Ryan Jones types and less of the Ben Eager / Chris Vande Velde's that, while they don't do much harm, aren't doing much good either.

I also think we have to let guys like Paajarvi, Hartikainen, Lander, etc. develop in the minors more rather than have them fill in up here (as much as I like them all... possible exception for Hartikainen to stay here as he is closest to NHL ready). Of course two of the aforementioned are injured and not a current issue, but what I'm getting at is we need some solid NHL-level filler players here.

I also have always been a big fan of Smytty, but not sure he can get the job done for us anymore. The only guys in our bottom six that I'd really hang on to are Ryan Jones and Lennart Petrell (shockingly enough... I think he is very good at his role and is good enough for a 4th line winger).

Other than that, I would tear that bottom six apart and do what it takes to get some quality guys in there. It's easier said than done, but we need secondary scoring. When our top 2 lines with all their talent can't score, we need guys that can get their noses dirty and put it in the net.

Our top six doesn't need bigger players though or anything silly like that, as I think they can hold their own.. but they will be prone to slump, and that's where a strong bottom six can come in and help out.

Most of all, we need to stop making excuses for Management already. It's not like this is a knee jerk reaction after a game or two. We've been bottom feeders for several years!
Being an annual bottom feeder like the Islanders is one thing... what we're approaching is historic. A loss to the Jackets puts us only 2 points up on last in the league.

Picture this... 30th, 30th, 29th, 30th...

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Old
03-04-2013, 12:30 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Marginally improving the team is bad, but making reactionary trades that lose significant value is worse.

I don't care if they move the lesser pieces but with Gagner/Hemsky/anyone with more value, I think we should wait for the right deal.
Reactionary? Trading in 2007 would have been reactionary. At this point, fungus would have faster reaction speed than Lowe/Tambo. The only thing accumulating first round assets for this team is neglect for the team and fans.

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03-04-2013, 12:35 AM
  #67
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I'm so sick of the losing culture in this team. It starts with the people in management and ends with the players management is bringing in. I remember Darryl Katz on Oil Change Season 1, where he made the comment "we don't want to do it every year, mind you (draft 1st overall) but god it sure sounds like it with the effort being put into making this team better. Has Tambellini ever made a trade mid season? (deadline day not counting) Honest question. Because the only one I can think of was when we sold Garon to Pittsburgh and that didn't help the team at all. He waits for the days activity is up and he makes his moves when everyone else does.

Burke is the exact kind of GM that will add the much needed size and grit into this lineup. Tambellini is not capable of it because it's not his style to go out and aggressively pursue players. He's passive, he waits for the right moves. He is worried about making the wrong move so he sits back. That will not get us anywhere. The Oilers need a little more of '06 into this '12 team. Burke will bring us that. I'm on board for that move even if Burke is an absolute clown with the media.

Yea, people bash him for the Komisarek signing, the Connolly signing, the Kessel trade etc... At least he tried to make an impact by grabbing the best players he thought were available. Komisarek was an absolute beast before he got to Toronto. Not Burke's fault the guy completely folded after that. The Kessel trade; bad trade. Yea. But the reason it was bad was because it wasn't the right time to make that kind of deal. Toronto was still a terrible team and that pick was going to be good regardless. I would have no problem if Burke traded our next two first round picks for a Kessel impact kind of player. We're in the right situation where he could go out and make a deal like this. We've accumulated the talent through the draft. A GM willing to use every asset possible is something we need at this point.

An aggressive GM that doesn't take crap and isn't passive and WANTS to add the size and "truckulence" is exactly what we want Tambellini to be. So why is Burke such a bad idea? Burke has no emotional attachment to anyone here. He isn't dumb enough that he'd trade any of the big 5 but he surely would clean up everything else unlike Tambo.

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03-04-2013, 12:37 AM
  #68
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Lemme ask you something...

Is trying and failing better or worse than doing nothing?

Keep in mind we're STILL paying for Horcoff and Souray and Khabibulin.

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03-04-2013, 12:41 AM
  #69
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Lemme ask you something...

Is trying and failing better or worse than doing nothing?

Keep in mind we're STILL paying for Horcoff and Souray and Khabibulin.
We could use Souray right now haha, I bet he watches us on TV and lols.

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03-04-2013, 12:42 AM
  #70
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We could use Souray right now haha, I bet he watches us on TV and lols.
That's debatable.

He's another in a long line of NHLers that comes here, collects their pay check, almost completely sucks, and lights it up elsewhere.

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03-04-2013, 12:46 AM
  #71
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so sick of losing.. we are becoming the laughing stock of the league. All this "potential" doesn't mean squat **** if we have dead weight and anchors weighing us down. Tambellini should not have a job in this league. He is not getting results. simple. These kids are getting used to losing and that's the biggest issue. People saying "if this happens again next year it'll be a problem, till then lets enjoy the ride the kids are developing" aren't realizing that we are on the verge of acquiring a FOURTH consecutive 1st overall pick. That's simply unacceptable. It's either the coaches or the players fault. You can make a case for both, but I don't understand how teams like Nashville and Pheonix see playoff success but we look so outside of the picture. I really think it's the Coach.

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03-04-2013, 12:50 AM
  #72
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That's debatable.

He's another in a long line of NHLers that comes here, collects their pay check, almost completely sucks, and lights it up elsewhere.
So.... like I keep saying... maybe the team should fold if the city/organization isn't desirable enough to compete.

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03-04-2013, 12:54 AM
  #73
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So.... like I keep saying... maybe the team should fold if the city/organization isn't desirable enough to compete.
I'm sure they'll appreciate the team in Quebec.

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03-04-2013, 12:56 AM
  #74
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this management team has made the decision to do nothing until the kids get older.

when hall, ebs, rnh, yak, turn 23 or 24 then maybe they get off their ***** and do something.

until then, like it or not, we wait.

besides, Katz wants his new arena and the shiny buildings surrounding it. everything else is secondary.

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03-04-2013, 01:01 AM
  #75
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
Ill leave this here...

We all want to talk trades and fire coaches... But for those talking about needing personnel change, look at the 2009-2010 roster on hockeydb, out of the 40 players that played that season, over 75% of our roster has been overhauled in 2 years.

Yes, 7 skaters and 2 goalies remain from FOURTY!!!
I guess this proves maybe he is willing to gut the team and that he's horrible at renovating it. He got rid of the "dead weight", and two years later we are stuck with more "dead weight." Actually, no there is 0 chance he'd gut it twice, nor should he get the chance to do so as he's proven it's not working with him. We need a GM that will do it proper this time around. Like Holmes on Homes, Edmonton Oilers style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nail Yakupov View Post
so sick of losing.. we are becoming the laughing stock of the league. All this "potential" doesn't mean squat **** if we have dead weight and anchors weighing us down. Tambellini should not have a job in this league. He is not getting results. simple. These kids are getting used to losing and that's the biggest issue. People saying "if this happens again next year it'll be a problem, till then lets enjoy the ride the kids are developing" aren't realizing that we are on the verge of acquiring a FOURTH consecutive 1st overall pick. That's simply unacceptable. It's either the coaches or the players fault. You can make a case for both, but I don't understand how teams like Nashville and Pheonix see playoff success but we look so outside of the picture. I really think it's the Coach.
The coaches help but Don Maloney and David Poile are fantastic GM's as well. As many have said, 4 coaches in 5 years here. Clearly coaching is not the big problem. The most obvious evidence of this is after we fired MacT, hired Quinn and it was still crap all before we started re-building.

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