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When did Datsyuk get demoted to the 4th line?

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Old
03-04-2013, 08:10 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Early on, they started with Dats/Z/Brunner; then scrapped it and IIRC Dats was briefly with Flip/Bert. Then came injuries, and Cleary.
That's when Cleary's dominant play made him untouchable on the second line.

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03-04-2013, 09:00 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Early on, they started with Dats/Z/Brunner; then scrapped it and IIRC Dats was briefly with Flip/Bert. Then came injuries, and Cleary.
Exactly. Cleary getting huge minutes isn't because he's viewed as the third best forward on the team. It's because we've been nailed with injuries since the second game. Plug Flip, Bert, Sammy, and Helm back into the lineup, and watch Cleary (and Abdelkader's) IT fall.

What I'm hoping is that we see Tatar kept in the lineup, and given more minutes where he's paired with more experienced players. Keep him on the third line, but put Helm/Sammy/Cleary/etc, next to him, and keep picking his spots a bit.

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03-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #128
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Maybe I'm mistaken...
But didn't Flip get moved to Zetterberg's line and off Datsyuk's line, creating the Cleary/Datsyuk/Abs atrocity

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03-04-2013, 09:47 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Maybe I'm mistaken...
But didn't Flip get moved to Zetterberg's line and off Datsyuk's line, creating the Cleary/Datsyuk/Abs atrocity
Yeah but that probably changes as Flip comes back. Or Franzen comes with Dats.

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03-04-2013, 09:53 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Exactly. Cleary getting huge minutes isn't because he's viewed as the third best forward on the team. It's because we've been nailed with injuries since the second game. Plug Flip, Bert, Sammy, and Helm back into the lineup, and watch Cleary (and Abdelkader's) IT fall.

What I'm hoping is that we see Tatar kept in the lineup, and given more minutes where he's paired with more experienced players. Keep him on the third line, but put Helm/Sammy/Cleary/etc, next to him, and keep picking his spots a bit.
No. That doesn't explain it. It doesn't explain why he gets soooooo much ice time. It doesn't explain why he's favored over guys like Tatar or even Tootoo.

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03-04-2013, 11:52 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
No. That doesn't explain it. It doesn't explain why he gets soooooo much ice time. It doesn't explain why he's favored over guys like Tatar or even Tootoo.
Because throwing a rookie out there for 16+ minutes a night, with gobs of injuries gutting our depth, isn't a recipe for success. While putting Tootoo up there doesn't really changes anything for either Dats or Emmerton's line. Put either player on that line, and Datsyuk is having to carry it either way.

At least with Tatar where he is, Babcock can find mismatches for him. Is it a coincidence that Tatar got his goal when his line was out there against Carcillo, Brookbank, and Frolik?


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03-04-2013, 12:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Is it a coincidence that Tatar got his goal when his line was out there against Carcillo, Brookbank, and Frolik?
Nope. In fact mismatches are a large part of why Tatar looks so good and why I'm hopeful when the team gets healthy that 3rd line can become a dangerous line 2b we haven't seen in years.

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03-04-2013, 12:51 PM
  #133
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Sorry but I don't buy this reasoning. You don't sacrifice your second line so you can get mismatches with your third. This is basically a two line team right now talent wise. Trying to create depth in scoring when it isn't there is an error.

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03-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Sorry but I don't buy this reasoning.
You may not buy it, but it's common throughout all levels of hockey.

And obviously the offense has stalled in recent games, so it's not like anybody is jumping up and down with excitement over the results. But to ignore that line matching is a huge part of why Tatar is playing on the lower lines is willful ignorance.

Playing against 3rd pairing D is giving Tatar a chance to really shine, even if it is with limited minutes. As he gains poise there they'll fold him into the top 6. I have no doubt that's the long term plan.

But I understand, it's frustrating to watch currently when the results from the Datsyuk line are less than optimal.

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03-04-2013, 01:34 PM
  #135
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Spreading out scoring and mismatches is common. Sticking with a second line that is abysmal that consists of your two worst wingers is not.

Getting Tatar sone nice match ups is all well and good. But not at the expense of an elite talent like Datsyuk. That's the entire strength of team our one two punch at center. You are only kneecapping yourself by neutralizing half the threat.

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03-04-2013, 02:02 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
You are only kneecapping yourself by neutralizing half the threat.
You could very well be correct. I'm merely attempting to explain the situation and exercise patience, as I believe the ultimate goal is to ease Tatar into a larger role moving forward.

Babcock has never been a guy to throw his prospects to the wolves. That's frustrating at times, but it's been fairly consistent, so it's not unexpected. But if we follow the path of other young players that earned permanent roster positions, such as Helm or Abdelkader, Tatar is moving along nicely.

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03-04-2013, 02:05 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Spreading out scoring and mismatches is common. Sticking with a second line that is abysmal that consists of your two worst wingers is not.

Getting Tatar sone nice match ups is all well and good. But not at the expense of an elite talent like Datsyuk. That's the entire strength of team our one two punch at center. You are only kneecapping yourself by neutralizing half the threat.
Pretty big assumption that what Tatar brings to the first line will outweigh what he gives us on the third line. Yeah, playing with Dats, but also against Hossa, Toews, Kane, etc. every night. Datsyuk is still going to have to carry that line whether it's Cleary-Gator next to him, or Tatar-Cleary/Gator.

Meanwhile, we take the only real weapon we have out of the bottom6, allowing teams to load up even more against our top 6.

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03-04-2013, 02:07 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Because throwing a rookie out there for 16+ minutes a night, with gobs of injuries gutting our depth, isn't a recipe for success. While putting Tootoo up there doesn't really changes anything for either Dats or Emmerton's line. Put either player on that line, and Datsyuk is having to carry it either way.

At least with Tatar where he is, Babcock can find mismatches for him. Is it a coincidence that Tatar got his goal when his line was out there against Carcillo, Brookbank, and Frolik?
Meh. I get so sick of people minimizing the kid's talent and hustle to make excuses for the clueless coach

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03-04-2013, 02:11 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Pretty big assumption that what Tatar brings to the first line will outweigh what he gives us on the third line. Yeah, playing with Dats, but also against Hossa, Toews, Kane, etc. every night. Datsyuk is still going to have to carry that line whether it's Cleary-Gator next to him, or Tatar-Cleary/Gator.

Meanwhile, we take the only real weapon we have out of the bottom6, allowing teams to load up even more against our top 6.
What isn't a big assumption is that the Datsyuk line sucks.

And that Datsyuk lines don't suck for three straight games under normal circumstances.

I'm seeing a lot of shifts with Datsyuk-Cleary-Abdelkader-Quincey-Smith.

What a cluster****. Nobody can Datsyuk the puck unless he gets it on a drop pass Deep in Detroit's end. So the defensemen chip it up the boards. All Cleary or Abs can do is swipe up the boards and then go dig at for 10 seconds until it's cleared out.

Coach clueless probably thinks this is a good shift.

Anyone with any reasoning could tell you this line sucked. But it takes a special kind of moron to keep this line together in the face of the results.

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03-04-2013, 02:13 PM
  #140
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Meh. I get so sick of people minimizing the kid's talent and hustle to make excuses for the clueless coach
And I get sick of people acting like this is a Stamkos/Melrose situation. We're both equally sick. Nobody wins. I'm going to lay down and watch OWN now.

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03-04-2013, 02:15 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
You could very well be correct. I'm merely attempting to explain the situation and exercise patience, as I believe the ultimate goal is to ease Tatar into a larger role moving forward.

Babcock has never been a guy to throw his prospects to the wolves. That's frustrating at times, but it's been fairly consistent, so it's not unexpected. But if we follow the path of other young players that earned permanent roster positions, such as Helm or Abdelkader, Tatar is moving along nicely.
Baloney, Benchy.

You're making excuses for the coach's dumbass decision.

I wonder what you'd call Lashoff on the first unit/firstPK if not "throwing him to the wolves?"

So many inconsistencies and holes in your reasoning, benchy.
Here's another one. Helm and Abdelkader were ALWAYS bottom sixers. Tatar is not a bottom six type.

Injuries are when your propsects can step into bigger roles. Especially when they're showing they are more than able to handle the small role. Especially when it's obvious your scoring line needs some level of talent.

Tatar has been in the AHL for four years. Enough with the coddling bull

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03-04-2013, 02:16 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
And I get sick of people acting like this is a Stamkos/Melrose situation. We're both equally sick. Nobody wins. I'm going to lay down and watch OWN now.
Who brought up Stamkos/Melrose?
What the hell is OWN?

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03-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
You're making excuses for the coach's dumbass decision.
It's an explanation. And it's like you don't even read my posts in full. You see I haven't made a dramatic negative statement and then treat me like I'm a Babcock cheerleader.

Let me break it down.

- I said Syckle78 could be CORRECT for criticizing Babcock.
- I said it's "frustrating" to watch.
- I said "it's not like anybody is jumping up and down with excitement over the results"
- I said it's "less than optimal"

But please, keep painting me like a huge excuse maker because I'm not calling for his head and calling him coach dumbass. I said it's not working, I said it's frustrating, and I said the the original critic I responded to could be right.

What more can I do? Oh right, hyperbole and name calling.

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03-04-2013, 02:26 PM
  #144
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What the hell is OWN?
Only the best thing to happen to television since the remote control.


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03-04-2013, 02:34 PM
  #145
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Only the best thing to happen to television since the remote control.

Hahah

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03-04-2013, 02:34 PM
  #146
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What more can I do? Oh right, hyperbole and name calling.
Get after it.

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03-04-2013, 02:58 PM
  #147
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Khan:

Quote:
No changes to lines in practice, at least at the start: 93-40-24, 8-13-11, 21-63-17, 20-25-22; on D: 55-52, 27-2, 23-4; 3, 18, 28

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03-04-2013, 03:09 PM
  #148
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Khan:
Cleary looks lost out there man I just don't get it. Abdelkader just doesn't have the skills to play against other 2nd lines. They look like ***** out there. I feel bad for them and they obviously have to play where they are assigned. Babcock needs to try something else. There is no way anyone else can do worse.

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03-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #149
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Cleary looks lost out there man I just don't get it. Abdelkader just doesn't have the skills to play against other 2nd lines. They look like ***** out there.
They're not playing against 2nd lines. The only 2nd line they played against recently was Richards-Carter of LA. They were matched up against the Sedin's, Thornton/Couture, and Toews/Hossa. Those are 1st lines.

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03-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #150
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It's not often you can say one of the worst lines in hockey is the one with Datsyuk on it.

Hats off to Babcock for doing the impossible.

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