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2012-2013 Hartford Wolf Pack/Greenville Road Warriors Thread (AHL, ECHL) *Part III*

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03-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I understand what you are saying. I still favor a team who can handle their own justice on the ice. McIlrath is a daunting presence. Can't wait.
I would love to see a Ranger pummel someone who takes liberties with a teammate. If the Rangers were in a cozy playoff position and it cost them the game to send a message, I'm okay with that. However right now this team needs all the Ws it can get and I'd rather them respond on the PP. Kaleta lost them the game last night. It's unfortunate you can't count on that PP every night. Having a top 5 PP would make players think a lot harder than McI.

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03-04-2013, 10:07 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I would love to see a Ranger pummel someone who takes liberties with a teammate. If the Rangers were in a cozy playoff position and it cost them the game to send a message, I'm okay with that. However right now this team needs all the Ws it can get and I'd rather them respond on the PP. Kaleta lost them the game last night. It's unfortunate you can't count on that PP every night. Having a top 5 PP would make players think a lot harder than McI.
Good point. I would most like to see both though...

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03-04-2013, 10:09 AM
  #178
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Sadly we are a small group who think this way..I agree with you 100%
It's a small group for a reason.

No one here would argue against having a guy like Chara who can do it all, but Wrath isn't Chara and taking dumb retaliation penalties loses games, not wins them.

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03-04-2013, 10:23 AM
  #179
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I prefer getting a powerplay that won us the game, then a guy evening up the calls and losing the game. I doubt anyone actually thinks of the other team's enforcers in the heat of the moment anyway.
McIlrath is not an enforcer. He is a good defenseman who can drop the gloves and do it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Chara is a daunting presence playing a zillion minutes a game.

McI and his 14-16 minutes a night as a #5 Dman, not as daunting.
We see very differently on his ceiling obviously.

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03-04-2013, 10:27 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
McIlrath is not an enforcer. He is a good defenseman who can drop the gloves and do it well.



We see very differently on his ceiling obviously.
That wasn't the point. No one is thinking anyone fighting them in the heat of the moment when they cheap shot someone.

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03-04-2013, 10:29 AM
  #181
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You saw the penalty that Kaleta took on Brad? That would NEVER happen if McIlrath was on the team. McIlrath would kill him. I mean it. This would result in criminal charges and a funeral. There's no way that Richards would have to take this if The Undertaker was on the team.
You think so? Chara and Lucic didn't prevent the Habs from taking liberties yesterday despite Character stepping in and laying down some punishment.

Tanks again for the update.

Edit - oops, just saw that other posters already mentioned Chara on Emelin.

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03-04-2013, 10:30 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Chara is a daunting presence playing a zillion minutes a game.

McI and his 14-16 minutes a night as a #5 Dman, not as daunting.
You have to start some where as this is still hockey we are discussing.

Chara started off as little more than a daunting presence his first three seasons. The mind set that says the Rangers don't need to be capable of handling the rough stuff if not occasionally initiating it is.....I just can't understand it.

Again, we're talking hockey....not bad mitten. I daresay there are intimidating strategies even in bad mitten.

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03-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
McIlrath is not an enforcer. He is a good defenseman who can drop the gloves and do it well.



We see very differently on his ceiling obviously.
I hope his ceiling is #1 Dman like Chara. Then reality settles in and I adjust my Ranger goggles.

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You have to start some where as this is still hockey we are discussing.

Chara started off as little more than a daunting presence his first three seasons. The mind set that says the Rangers don't need to be capable of handling the rough stuff if not occasionally initiating it is.....I just can't understand it.

Again, we're talking hockey....not bad mitten. I daresay there are intimidating strategies even in bad mitten.
Who said they don't need to be 'handling the rough stuff' ? They do! But it's gonna take more than McI, and even then, what good is it to take your best defenders off the ice? I love that Chara made the guy pay the price, especially since the refs completely ignored that crosscheck, but ultimately the goal is to win. Next time Emelin got the puck someone should plaster him with a hard legal hit, and keep doing it.

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03-04-2013, 11:03 AM
  #184
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We don't know what the Undertaker is yet,maybe he pans out to be a better version of Chara? We will disagree on taking retaliation penalties..Everytime a puke like Kaleta gets away with stuff like that without a beating is disgusting..If McIlrath was on the ice he would destroy first and worry about the consequences later..We are sorely lacking that mentality..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
It's a small group for a reason.

No one here would argue against having a guy like Chara who can do it all, but Wrath isn't Chara and taking dumb retaliation penalties loses games, not wins them.

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03-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by surf View Post
We don't know what the Undertaker is yet,maybe he pans out to be a better version of Chara? We will disagree on taking retaliation penalties..Everytime a puke like Kaleta gets away with stuff like that without a beating is disgusting..If McIlrath was on the ice he would destroy first and worry about the consequences later..We are sorely lacking that mentality..
I want to see him beaten too, but they responded the best way they could last night and got the win. If they didn't score on the PP and lost the game I'd be far more upset about it.

Ultimately winning is still the most important thing when they are battling for a playoft spot.

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03-04-2013, 11:25 AM
  #186
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I'm not as nuanced as some of you.

Bottom line the Rangers need to be a bigger more physically capable team that can both handle the rough stuff and dish it out. That is what wins a lot in the playoffs and helps keep your small or talented players healthy.

The opposition needs to know there will be a price to pay. That Rangers don't come close to sending that signal right now. That could be the difference in a tough playoff series. Just shear attrition.

...and yes McIlrath is not going to the sole solution.

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03-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I'm not as nuanced as some of you.

Bottom line the Rangers need to be a bigger more physically capable team that can both handle the rough stuff and dish it out. That is what wins a lot in the playoffs and helps keep your small or talented players healthy.

The opposition needs to know there will be a price to pay. That Rangers don't come close to sending that signal right now. That could be the difference in a tough playoff series. Just shear attrition.

...and yes McIlrath is not going to the sole solution.
Totally agree. The Rangers saw it last year with Konopka, Neil, Carkner, Smith, Greening and Ovechkin, Hendricks, Chimera, Ward, Laich.

Over a long series players who are the aggressor take their toll.

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03-04-2013, 11:32 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
McIlrath is not an enforcer. He is a good defenseman who can drop the gloves and do it well.



We see very differently on his ceiling obviously.
That there is the $1,295,000 million dollar question?

I personally can't wait for him to get into a Rangers sweater.

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03-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
That wasn't the point. No one is thinking anyone fighting them in the heat of the moment when they cheap shot someone.

This.

In a tight key game, he might merely issue a future warning, which may or may not be taken seriously the first time. But when you punish people enough times, you establish yourself a reputation as a punisher that nobody wants to deal with.

I've seen this in Hartford. Look at my reports before McIlrath joined them and you see complaints about the team being manhandled in front of the net and along the boards. Even the Whale goalies were being physically abused.

When McIlrath joined the team, this stopped pretty quickly because if you take liberties with a Whale player, McIlrath will punish you. If he's not on the ice now, the next time you'll be on the ice with him, the shift will end with you needing dental work.

In the last couple of weeks, I can remember only one play when someone took liberties with a Whale player and that resulted in the guy getting cruel and unusual punishment from The Undertaker.

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03-04-2013, 03:26 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I want to see him beaten too, but they responded the best way they could last night and got the win. If they didn't score on the PP and lost the game I'd be far more upset about it.

Ultimately winning is still the most important thing when they are battling for a playoft spot.

So let's get a bunch of 5-10 smurfs with offensive skill and see how that works out...

No matter what, you need a tough presence on the team. Sometimes it will look to be wasted because nothing happened, but maybe nothing happened for a reason. After McIlrath joined the Whale, "nothing happened" became a lot more frequent than "why is nobody doing anything about all the cheap shots?"

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03-04-2013, 03:33 PM
  #191
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That there is the $1,295,000 million dollar question?

I personally can't wait for him to get into a Rangers sweater.

You'll probably see him to start the next season, assuming he works on his skating balance. That's the only part of his game that's lacking. He's not doing anything fancy yet, but he makes good, safe, proper defensive plays while taking the body and being in the right position. His only significant flaw is easily fixable.

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03-04-2013, 03:44 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
You'll probably see him to start the next season, assuming he works on his skating balance. That's the only part of his game that's lacking. He's not doing anything fancy yet, but he makes good, safe, proper defensive plays while taking the body and being in the right position. His only significant flaw is easily fixable.
How about how he handles the size and speed of the game at it's highest level, how's that gonna affect what he already does?

The game in his head is gonna change exponentially if he can't process it, like many before him, he's gonna have more to work on more than just 'balance'.

Again, why the absolutes? How am I supposed to believe his only fault at this point is balance!? You mean to say "the only part of his game against AHL opposition....". Well...yeah, that's all we know right? You assume everything else he can do will magically transfer over to the highest level with ease.


That being said, my opinion is he'll be with the team for '13-'14. He's the type of prospect who at the same time can and will benefit from playing guys more his size, just hope the expectations will not be like they were with Kreider.

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03-04-2013, 04:05 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
How about how he handles the size and speed of the game at it's highest level, how's that gonna affect what he already does?

The game in his head is gonna change exponentially if he can't process it, like many before him, he's gonna have more to work on more than just 'balance'.

Again, why the absolutes? How am I supposed to believe his only fault at this point is balance!? You mean to say "the only part of his game against AHL opposition....". Well...yeah, that's all we know right? You assume everything else he can do will magically transfer over to the highest level with ease.


That being said, my opinion is he'll be with the team for '13-'14. He's the type of prospect who at the same time can and will benefit from playing guys more his size, just hope the expectations will not be like they were with Kreider.


Balance is the only thing keeping him out of the NHL. Clearly that's what I was talking about when I was talking about his making an NHL debut. Then he'll have all sorts of growing pains as a rookie and sophomore, but to go from the AHL to the NHL, he needs to improve on his balance and he'll be good enough for the third pair at that point.

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03-04-2013, 04:11 PM
  #194
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Balance is the only thing keeping him out of the NHL. Clearly that's what I was talking about when I was talking about his making an NHL debut. Then he'll have all sorts of growing pains as a rookie and sophomore, but to go from the AHL to the NHL, he needs to improve on his balance and he'll be good enough for the third pair at that point.
Let's hope so.

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03-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Totally agree. The Rangers saw it last year with Konopka, Neil, Carkner, Smith, Greening and Ovechkin, Hendricks, Chimera, Ward, Laich.

Over a long series players who are the aggressor take their toll.
Interestingly enough, other than Ovechkin, I don't think a single one of those players was drafted in the first round, much less in the lottery. Meanwhile, plenty of 6'4"+ defensemen have been drafted in the first round in the last 15 years. None of them are as good as Chara. Chara himself is one of only 4 or 5 defensemen drafted in rounds 2-7 in the last 15 years that stand 6'4" or taller to be notable players.

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03-04-2013, 04:21 PM
  #196
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Interestingly enough, other than Ovechkin, I don't think a single one of those players was drafted in the first round, much less in the lottery. Meanwhile, plenty of 6'4"+ defensemen have been drafted in the first round in the last 15 years. None of them are as good as Chara. Chara himself is one of only 4 or 5 defensemen drafted in rounds 2-7 in the last 15 years that stand 6'4" or taller to be notable players.
So what you are saying is you feel McIlrath has an opportunity to be a difference maker Sting?

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03-04-2013, 04:40 PM
  #197
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Interestingly enough, other than Ovechkin, I don't think a single one of those players was drafted in the first round, much less in the lottery. Meanwhile, plenty of 6'4"+ defensemen have been drafted in the first round in the last 15 years. None of them are as good as Chara. Chara himself is one of only 4 or 5 defensemen drafted in rounds 2-7 in the last 15 years that stand 6'4" or taller to be notable players.

This is why we also drafted Noreau. He's going to be a guy who's purely a third-pair punisher, assuming he even makes the NHL.

McIlrath was drafted with the hope that he could be a first or at least a second pair defenseman who can also hit and fight. He's really not bad defensively. It's very rare that he gives away the puck or finds himself out of position.

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03-04-2013, 04:48 PM
  #198
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This is why we also drafted Noreau. He's going to be a guy who's purely a third-pair punisher, assuming he even makes the NHL.
I read he has been working on his skating and is looking better. Apparently nobody wants to fight him in the Q anymore.
He is still a project, 3 or 4 years away from being ready for the NHL.

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03-05-2013, 12:31 AM
  #199
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I read he has been working on his skating and is looking better. Apparently nobody wants to fight him in the Q anymore.
He is still a project, 3 or 4 years away from being ready for the NHL.

He just has a lot more to work on than McIlrath, who always had good speed. Noreau started out very slow when he was first drafted. Sure, the scouting reports said he was a good skater for his size, but that's because your average fifth round pick who's 6-5 225 pounds is going to be slower than a dead person. In the Traverse-2011 tournament, he wasn't fast enough to play even against ECHLers.

He showed promise and he kept improving his skating and passing, but he's still not as good as McIlrath. If he makes the Whale next year even as a third pair guy, I will be very happy.

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03-05-2013, 12:36 AM
  #200
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So far so good for kreider. If he keeps this up we will probably see him back soon

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