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Value of Morrow

View Poll Results: Do you think Dallas will trade Brenden Morrow?
Yes 28 58.33%
No 20 41.67%
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Old
03-02-2013, 05:56 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by haf View Post
Niskanen looks a real good young two-way defenseman that fits our direction pretty well.
He plays on a well structured team in the east. He couldn't hang if he came back, and I don't him.

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03-03-2013, 03:20 PM
  #52
Mike Farkas
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Got a nice note from a regular here to maybe share a little more information re: Morrow and this thread in general.

- Matt Niskanen has been rather good for us but Penguins fans are a little blinded by the fact that he was pulled off the scrap heap. So, like Deryk Engelland, sometimes you don't fault him for things that he does wrong because he's a better story than more established names.

Niskanen spent a lot of time this year with another offensive, RHS d-man, Kris Letang. And it was decent at times, but quickly the shutdown pairing of Brooks Orpik-Paul Martin emerged as the better pairing. Letang and Nisky were good in transition and both kind of realized that they weren't the best positional defensemen, so they helped each other out.

What went largely unnoticed is that lots of bad stuff seems to happen when Niskanen is out there (you guys can certainly relate, I don't doubt). Ideally, Niskanen is a #5 for Pittsburgh, because he doesn't have the hockey sense to face top competition. He fits our run n' gun nonsense pretty well, and he's not nearly as porous as he was in Dallas, but he's available if it helps upgrade the team as a whole.

- Robert Bortuzzo was inquired about, this is my scouting report on him:

Quote:
Robert Bortuzzo (RD) - A tall, lanky defenseman that skates well but is still a bit awkward and seems to have a high center of gravity; below average balance. He can be bowled over if he's not prepared for contact. He makes fine passes but doesn't read the play well enough to be a premier breakout passer. Has a heavy shot that takes some time to get away. Defensively he's solid but unspectacular, he's willing to compete down deep but lacks the hockey sense to become a wholly reliable shutdown player. He doesn't seem totally sure in what he's doing all the time, with better confidence, he'll probably be a better player. Communicates well. A willing fighter that could become rather punishing when he gets stronger.

Potential: Third pairing, defensive-minded defenseman
---
Again, another player in the Penguins system that lacks hockey sense. We were supposed to be a hard-working, cycling team...but then one day we changed into something else, so we drafted/signed/acquired a bunch of worker bees and then we changed our system so all the worker bees look bad...so...uhhh....right...

So it's kind of hard to tell what Bylsma is doing, we win games on talent alone usually but it's not sustainable come playoff time.

I've only caught a handful of Stars games this year, and that was mostly to track progress of prospects...what's Gulutzan up to these days? I guess he can't be too strict of a defensive guy given some of the additions recently (Goligoski, Jagr, Whitney, formerly Ryder, etc.) but I don't have a strong beat on what he's doing specifically at a passing glance...

I was also asked about Jordan Caron from Boston. Big kid, solidly built it seems. Not a great skater really, kind of plodding, doesn't have that explosiveness that you like to see. Playing in Boston, it seems like he has even less offensive pep than his days in juniors...less willingness to try fanciful things with the puck. More willing to chip and chase. He's developed into a decent role player, but not a lot sticks out about him really. He has pretty good hockey sense, he has really good hand-eye coordination, but there isn't a lot of "wow" to his game. The closest thing that's relate-able for you guys would probably be Vincour, they were cast from a fairly similar mold. I'm sure Caron-Eakin-Vincour could grind out a decent cycle and they could be fairly productive vs. expectations I would figure. Though sometimes it seems like Vincour's biggest turn-offs include: finishing quality chances.

Ideally, Pittsburgh acquires Morrow for the leadership and then Ralph and Razor for the acoustics. No doubt, it's the two-time 30-goal man that's easier to acquire right now...

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03-03-2013, 03:26 PM
  #53
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Than you for the info.

If both Caron and Bortuzzo are available, it's hard to guess which one Dallas scouts might prefer. Bortuzzo is 2 years older though, and he doesn't seem like he'd have much of an edge on the other D prospects.

Caron like Vincour at least seems to fit the mold of a big bodied effective Bottom 6 forward so he could be useful piece.

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03-03-2013, 03:45 PM
  #54
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If I had to guess, I'd say Caron is more available than Bortuzzo. With Pittsburgh, we had an open audition (that still isn't over) because we were brimming with defensive prospects. The ones that are still with us made the "first cut", we essentially let go of Sneep (to you guys), Lovejoy (Anaheim) and Strait (Isles) for a combined 5th round pick (assuming Sneep doesn't play 10 NHL games this year).

Bortuzzo seems like he has more of a future in Pittsburgh over a similar player in Engelland because whenever the playoffs come around, Engelland finds himself stapled to the bench or press box...the stage is too big for him, it's too fast...like it was for Stu Bickel in New York.

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03-04-2013, 10:20 AM
  #55
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I would much rather see them go after Dumoulin or Joe Morrow. Pens have 2 highly regarded d-men from the recent draft so depth not an issue. Joe Morrow would require adding a pick and /or prospect.

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03-04-2013, 10:31 AM
  #56
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Can't trade Morrow for Morrow, so that's out. Maybe for a Moreau, but that's still pushing it.

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03-04-2013, 10:32 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Starsdude View Post
I would much rather see them go after Dumoulin or Joe Morrow. Pens have 2 highly regarded d-men from the recent draft so depth not an issue. Joe Morrow would require adding a pick and /or prospect.
I don't think it's that simple at all. Those guys are players they're looking at as potential Top 4 D for them in the future. They aren't going to just give them up for a rental and some picks or prospects. That'd be like Dallas just moving Oleksiak for a rental and minor future pieces.

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03-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #58
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Unfortunately, between Dumoulin's supposed readiness and Morrow's alleged upside (which I don't mean to demean, but you realize you never know what you have until you have it), if their names get involved the ante would have to go up...and we both know what winger I'm talking about when I say that. I don't think that's going to happen, personally.

AIUI though, there is sometimes the "I owe you one" feeling when one GM really gets another GM good (see: Goose for Neal). So, maybe Shero will give a little leeway in a deal with Nieuwendyk...but nothing like Morrow for Morrow I wouldn't guess...but maybe a gesture like a solid 2nd round pick instead of a conditional 3rd that could become a 2nd type of a deal...a deal where you don't stick him on the details, ya know?

I'm not a GM, but from what I've heard, this kind of thing does happen from time to time...I wouldn't factor it into your proposals though.

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03-04-2013, 02:54 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
AIUI though, there is sometimes the "I owe you one" feeling when one GM really gets another GM good (see: Goose for Neal). So, maybe Shero will give a little leeway in a deal with Nieuwendyk...but nothing like Morrow for Morrow I wouldn't guess...but maybe a gesture like a solid 2nd round pick instead of a conditional 3rd that could become a 2nd type of a deal...a deal where you don't stick him on the details, ya know?

I'm not a GM, but from what I've heard, this kind of thing does happen from time to time...I wouldn't factor it into your proposals though.
Shero already hooked us up with Carl Sneep I think everything is even now

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03-04-2013, 03:13 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Unfortunately, between Dumoulin's supposed readiness and Morrow's alleged upside (which I don't mean to demean, but you realize you never know what you have until you have it), if their names get involved the ante would have to go up...and we both know what winger I'm talking about when I say that. I don't think that's going to happen, personally.

AIUI though, there is sometimes the "I owe you one" feeling when one GM really gets another GM good (see: Goose for Neal). So, maybe Shero will give a little leeway in a deal with Nieuwendyk...but nothing like Morrow for Morrow I wouldn't guess...but maybe a gesture like a solid 2nd round pick instead of a conditional 3rd that could become a 2nd type of a deal...a deal where you don't stick him on the details, ya know?

I'm not a GM, but from what I've heard, this kind of thing does happen from time to time...I wouldn't factor it into your proposals though.
Agree Dumoulin is near ready but he is like a -13 at WB. They took 2 defenseman last draft. Your right likely Larsen or Vincour or something else would be involved-problem is we need a top 4 guy and room to put them there.

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03-04-2013, 06:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I don't think it's that simple at all. Those guys are players they're looking at as potential Top 4 D for them in the future. They aren't going to just give them up for a rental and some picks or prospects. That'd be like Dallas just moving Oleksiak for a rental and minor future pieces.
I agree to a point, but not really with your comparison. If we had 4 or 5 Oleksiaks (Pittsbrugh basically does) and were a serious Cup contender (which Pittsburgh is), then that changes things. I'm not in Shero's head so I have no clue what he's thinking, but they are deep in young D-men and are in a different situation than us.

Personally I'm a fan of Joe Morrow. I liked him going in to his draft and was kinda surprised he was still around at 23. I loved watching him play the local Edmonton Oil Kings in the WHL final last year, and my buddy's cousin is his trainer and says he's a beast. Everything to me just points to him being a really good all-round defenseman.

IF he was available, I would gladly add extra to the pot instead of settling for a lesser prospect.

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03-04-2013, 07:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I don't think it's that simple at all. Those guys are players they're looking at as potential Top 4 D for them in the future. They aren't going to just give them up for a rental and some picks or prospects. That'd be like Dallas just moving Oleksiak for a rental and minor future pieces.
It would if the two teams were in even remotely the same situation as far as a winning timetable goes.

I'm not saying our Morrow should fetch any of the Pens' top young blueliners but as a bigger picture I'm fascinated by how Pittsburgh will go about forming the team around Crosby and Malkin while they have both/are in their prime. It will be interesting to see if being cautious and patient with prospects will hurt or help Pittsburgh's chances of winning multiple championships with those two stud centers. Honestly, anything less than 2-3 Cups with the two of them would/should be viewed as a failure in the big scheme of things. You can make the argument that the league's parity actually works in Pittsburgh's favor in putting a contending team together given that they have two of the league's 3-4 truly elite players.

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03-04-2013, 07:50 PM
  #63
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Agree Dumoulin is near ready but he is like a -13 at WB. They took 2 defenseman last draft. Your right likely Larsen or Vincour or something else would be involved-problem is we need a top 4 guy and room to put them there.
He was obviously talking about Eriksson there.

Plus, if Pittsburgh is trading us a young defenseman why would they want our young defenseman, knowing that we need good young defensemen? The fact that Larsen isn't playing and that he could be traded to Pittsburgh is basically an admission by Dallas that they think he's not very good, otherwise you just play your guy.

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03-04-2013, 08:55 PM
  #64
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Hopefully Iginla's not available. That would hamper a deal with us unfortunately. And Iginla would likely demand one of the names we're talking about. It's possible Calgary asks for too much and Pitt would turn to us as the next best option.

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03-04-2013, 09:04 PM
  #65
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Hopefully Iginla's not available. That would hamper a deal with us unfortunately. And Iginla would likely demand one of the names we're talking about. It's possible Calgary asks for too much and Pitt would turn to us as the next best option.
I don't see any reason to go after Iginla (referring to the article saying Dallas would make a pitch if he's available) Isn't he a free agent after this year?

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03-04-2013, 09:08 PM
  #66
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I don't see any reason to go after Iginla (referring to the article saying Dallas would make a pitch if he's available) Isn't he a free agent after this year?
Pittsburgh would go after him.

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03-04-2013, 09:12 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by tjcurrie View Post
Pittsburgh would go after him.
Was referring to this article that was in the old General Stars talk thread. (sorry for bringing it over here)

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/03/03/...n-their-sights

Hopefully it's not true about our involvement.

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03-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
Was referring to this article that was in the old General Stars talk thread. (sorry for bringing it over here)

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/03/03/...n-their-sights

Hopefully it's not true about our involvement.
I think Dallas just got the obligatory mention because of Iginla's ties to Gaglardi. I wouldn't even have mentioned it if someone hadn't brought him up today.

This is actually the 2nd time a member of the Kamloops owner group has been linked to Dallas just because of his ties to Gaglardi.

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03-04-2013, 09:42 PM
  #69
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Yeah I can't see Iggy coming to the Stars. I dont think we have what it takes to outbid either of the Bruins or Penguins and since it is Iggy's choice....

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03-04-2013, 09:50 PM
  #70
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Yeah I can't see Iggy coming to the Stars. I dont think we have what it takes to outbid either of the Bruins or Penguins and since it is Iggy's choice....
I hope so (him not coming to Dallas). I think with Whitney back, and getting rid of Morrow, I'm 100% satisfied with all of our forward lines. Trade Morrow for picks, or add some picks to him and trade for an immediate/prospect defenseman.
I'd love to get J. Morrow on the team and I'd wonder what the Penguins would realistically ask for. But yes, if Pittsburg trades for Iginla, it pretty much ends any chance of that happening.

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03-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #71
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This is actually the 2nd time a member of the Kamloops owner group has been linked to Dallas just because of his ties to Gaglardi.
A current player is different than retired players ending up in front office gigs but the only real tie between Mark Recchi and the Stars is his link to Gaglardi via Kamloops. I'm assuming the other guy you're referring to is Doan. When was he linked to Dallas?

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03-04-2013, 09:54 PM
  #72
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A current player is different than retired players ending up in front office gigs but the only real tie between Mark Recchi and the Stars is his link to Gaglardi via Kamloops. I'm assuming the other guy you're referring to is Doan. When was he linked to Dallas?
Shane Doan ... not talking about Recchi. When he was unsigned. I think it might have been Garroich again.

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03-04-2013, 10:01 PM
  #73
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Out of curiosity, if we do trade Morrow (please god), who would take over as captain? Robidas? Please no. I really don't see Eriksson as captain material (ok with him as an alternate). Whitney? First year with the team, and only with us one more year. My first thought was Daley. I thought he was an alternate but apparently not.

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03-04-2013, 10:06 PM
  #74
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Out of curiosity, if we do trade Morrow (please god), who would take over as captain? Robidas? Please no. I really don't see Eriksson as captain material (ok with him as an alternate). Whitney? First year with the team, and only with us one more year. My first thought was Daley. I thought he was an alternate but apparently not.
Probably go with three A's until they feel Benn is ready.

Team's don't name captains that our the best leaders anymore. They name the franchise player as the captain. It's almost an obligation at this point it seems.

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03-04-2013, 10:10 PM
  #75
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We don't really need to have a captain, I'm afraid to name Benn captain because once you do you can't really take it back. Just roll 3 alternates until something happens that forces your hand.

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