Honestly, I don't know. To me, he's got more positives than negatives to his game. I think he needs work on the timing and accuracy of his shot. He misses the net during so many key times in games. I like his quickness and ability to move the puck.
Hope DT doesn't give up on him yet. Too early in his career.
And thats fine that we dont know but everyone should know by next season if he is or isnt because he'll be close to 300 games of experience at that point. As I said, he's a clear cut top 4 d-man on ANY team in this league right now. He's definitely a #3 right now, no question about that. But the negatives he does have, I'm not sure that he'll improve on those to the point that he becomes a #1 d-man.
I wouldnt mind if Tallon moves him but only if it means we're getting a top line forward in return. I keep looking at Philly and wondering if we could snag a forward from them in a deal for Kulikov after the season is over. I would do a deal where we got Couturier or B.Schenn back since that would at least seem to be addressing our needs of a top line type forward in return.
Also, I disagree with you about having holes in his game. The only hole might be his offensive production. He's not dominating the WHL with goals or assists. So, I think it's fair to say there's limited offensive potential since we're not seeing it a lot in juniors.
I'm not sure how smart it would be to choose another defenseman in the first round. ANOTHER ONE.. in consecutive years.
DT hasn't brought in the big fish in FA yet. It's unlikely that will bring Perry or Getzlaf over here. We need offensive studs and we need 'em badly since we have only one (not a stud yet, but with great potential).
Huberdeau and then what? Bjugstad?
Drouin or MacKinnon could help round out our offensive future. I prefer Mac over Drouin. But if we're faced with Drouin or Jones.. I'm just not sure if picking the d-man would be the right decision. Remember our past defesive studs. Bouwmeester.. Still hasn't seen the playoffs. We shouldn't make the same mistake.
I don't think anyone here raved that way about Gudbranson. He wasn't as good a skater as Jones is and wasn't nearly as good offensively. Gud was drafted with the knowledge that his offensive game was very raw, but that he had a lot of upside. Jones is the complete package. With his skillset, his potential is virtually limitless.
How can you say that Jones isn't dominating offensively? He has 10G, 37A, 47 P in 53 games! Nearly a PPG in the CHL for a defenseman in his draft year is terrific.
I don't care about taking another d-man in the first round in consecutive years if that d-man is Jones. He could become a top 5 d-man. I would take that every day, regardless of our prospect pool. We could deal with trading some of our defensive pieces for offense at a later date. I would easily take Jones over any of our current d-men in a split second.
Your argument is based on the assumption that Drouin and Jones will both become good NHL players, however Jones is the only sure thing. Drouin isn't, that's the wrench in the equation. That's why I take Jones, because he's a surefire stud.
In hindsight, Bouwmeester doesn't hold a candle to Jones, because he did not have a mean streak at all, and in fact is timid. Jones is a much more intense hockey player and comparing the two side by side today one would project Jones to reach his potential over Bouwmeester. And just because Bouwmeester didn't work out, that doesn't really mean anything. You can flip the argument around for forwards just as easily. Horton was supposed to be Cam Neely, Weiss was supposed to be Yzerman lite, Olesz was supposed to be Jagr lite, Frolik was supposed to be Elias.
Bouwmeester didn't pan out as we all hoped, but let's be fair.
The guy was a #1 defenseman here. That was not a terrible pick. The pick could have been better, but the point is that he wasn't a bust.
His last year here was a disaster after the trade deadline, probably because he no longer wanted to be here. Before the deadline, however, we were in the top-8 of the conference, in large part because of his play. If you go back to that time, he was a top-10 D-man (maybe even better) in the entire NHL.
Not sure what the big deal is against drafting D-men. The last two good teams we had were in large part thanks to a great defensive core.
You're supposed to take the projected BPA, (whoever that is), regardless of position.
Bouwmeester didn't pan out as we all hoped, but let's be fair.
The guy was a #1 defenseman here. That was not a terrible pick. The pick could have been better, but the point is that he wasn't a bust.
His last year here was a disaster after the trade deadline, probably because he no longer wanted to be here. Before the deadline, however, we were in the top-8 of the conference, in large part because of his play. If you go back to that time, he was a top-10 D-man (maybe even better) in the entire NHL.
Not sure what the big deal is against drafting D-men. The last two good teams we had were in large part thanks to a great defensive core.
You're supposed to take the projected BPA, (whoever that is), regardless of position.
Yep, when you are drafting that high, and there is such a big drop off from Jones to Drouin, Barkov, etc., position should play no part in your decision. You take the BPA, period.
Yep, when you are drafting that high, and there is such a big drop off from Jones to Drouin, Barkov, etc., position should play no part in your decision. You take the BPA, period.
Is there that big of a difference between Jones and the others? He really impressed me at the WJC's. but I know there are guys who've looked good there and didn't go far.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
Is there that big of a difference between Jones and the others? He really impressed me at the WJC's. but I know there are guys who've looked good there and didn't go far.
The big difference between MacKinnon & Jones and the others is they are sure things.
oh how i wish we wind up with a top-3 pick. i'd take mackinnon first because hes a center, then drouin (hes actually my favorite, but mac would get the slight edge for being a center), then jones, barkov, and i dont know who i'd pick between monahan or lindholm but i feel like tallon would go with monahan.
I hope we would take either Mackinnon or Drouin as they have both played with Huberdeau and I thought they all complimented each other nicely. But I wouldn't mind taking Barkov either.
I don't know enough about the prospects to have an intelligent opinion.
I believe BPA should always be taken (outside of goaltenders), because you can't predict your team's needs 2-3 years in the future. Realistically, its going to take at least 3 years before a prospect suits up for your team.
Past history does not predict the future. Bouwmeester, Horton, and Weiss were all rushed into the league far too soon. Who knows what they would have become with proper development. Olesz had a ton of injuries. I have no idea what happened to Frolik...and this why you take BPA..most prospects don't pan out, but if you have more elite prospects it increases the odds of draft picks making a big impact on the team.
I can't conclusively say Jones is better than Drouin or Barkov, but I think Tallon will take BPA based on whatever his assesment is.
Not really. The top 6 are all relatively safe prospects.
Some are safer than others.
I don't think we're going to get a top 3 pick anyway though. I think Markstrom's play will bump us out of the top 3, and there are a couple teams that are worse than us already. I'm focusing more on Monahan and Lindholm.
I don't think we're going to get a top 3 pick anyway though. I think Markstrom's play will bump us out of the top 3, and there are a couple teams that are worse than us already. I'm focusing more on Monahan and Lindholm.
Yeah I figure we're picking no earlier than 5th and could be as late as 10th. If we do have the choice between Monahan & Lindholm, I think I like Monahan a little better due to his size, skating & that he's more balanced in terms of scoring (Lindholm is more of a passer than shooter). If we're picking around 10, I'd be looking at Gauthier (who has been compared to Keith Primeau) or Adam Erne. I think everyone can see right now, we definitely need more size in our lineup and any of those guys would be able to provide that.
Yeah I figure we're picking no earlier than 5th and could be as late as 10th. If we do have the choice between Monahan & Lindholm, I think I like Monahan a little better due to his size, skating & that he's more balanced in terms of scoring (Lindholm is more of a passer than shooter). If we're picking around 10, I'd be looking at Gauthier (who has been compared to Keith Primeau) or Adam Erne. I think everyone can see right now, we definitely need more size in our lineup and any of those guys would be able to provide that.
If Gauthier keeps rising, he could even challenge Shinkaruk/possibly Nichushkin for the 6th forward off the board. I mean he's gigantic and he skates well enough. I don't think he's ever going to be that dynamic, but he has good enough hands to be a Couturier clone, or maybe better. A grittier version of Couturier that scores more points around the net.
Picking between Monahan and Lindholm is a hard choice. I would probably pick Monahan because he's safer, bigger, and grittier, which is what we need. But I'd love Lindholm too, he can definitely score goals as he showed in the WJC and he is very good defensively even if he isn't that physical. I think you just know more of what you are going to get with Monahan though. You know he's going to be a player, he's going to go to war every night, and be a thorn in the opposing team's side, and bang home the garbage around the net. We need more of that blood and guts hockey.
I would still take MacKinnon over Drouin, or atleast I think so. Drouin has some insane numbers thought. But MacKinnon is super skilled, dynamic and amazing speed.
I dont see how any GM in the league would pass on MacKinnon if they were picking either #1 or #2. I dont think there are any rankings where Mac is lower than Drouin too. I'd love to have Mac if we dont improve more and would take him before Drouin, no question.
