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Old
03-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #776
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so a guy can literally poke the bear with a stick and then expect the bear to not respond ? in this case, do you blame the bear ?
Jack Edwards, is that you?

The Bruins might be huge freaks, but they are humans, not animals. Hockey is a physical game, Emelin's hit was borderline, not vicious. You could retaliate without punching him in the fence. Seguin wasn't even hurt, that hit was a penalty but not even half as vicious as the last time Chara hit a Canadien player to hurt.

Chara hurt his team. Had he not done that, Emelin probably would have gotten two minutes, and the Bruins wouldn't have been without their best defender for half the game.

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03-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #777
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so a guy can literally poke the bear with a stick and then expect the bear to not respond ? in this case, do you blame the bear ?

No one wants emelin to be an enforcer, fighting puts him in a really bad situation. that being said, its not sufficient to exclude any situation where he would have to answer the bell, like he did last night. I'm glad no one got hurt, but I dont blame anyone for their actions.
In this case, Emelin poked a squirrel and ended up with a grizzli bear on his back.

In any case, nothing (and especially not an offense worthy of AT MOST a 2 minutes penalty) warrants a player skating through the ice, ignoring the play, only to take a shot at another player. It's disgraceful and quite frankly, a bad hockey play that cost his team the game.

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03-04-2013, 11:10 AM
  #778
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In that exchange, Emelin & Chara got 5 min for fighting, plus Chara got 5 for spearing and 2 for instigating, according to the boxscore. Is that correct? Spearing?

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03-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #779
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Emelin has all my respect for coming up swinging against Chara. He could have turtled, but he didn't. Kudos to him!

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03-04-2013, 11:13 AM
  #780
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Jack Edwards, is that you?

The Bruins might be huge freaks, but they are humans, not animals. Hockey is a physical game, Emelin's hit was borderline, not vicious. You could retaliate without punching him in the fence. Seguin wasn't even hurt, that hit was a penalty but not even half as vicious as the last time Chara hit a Canadien player to hurt.

Chara hurt his team. Had he not done that, Emelin probably would have gotten two minutes, and the Bruins wouldn't have been without their best defender for half the game.
Im about as far from jack edwards as possible, I still laught about the pouliot quote.

You can say that the hit did not merit retribution, Chara disagreed and I can see a case for why he did it.

And if you are the type of fan that thinks its okay for players to take liberties on teamates ( and talented ones at that) and that you are going to get them on the scoreboard, I'm releived we dont skate together.

The notion that chara acted improperly is based exclusively on the misplaced notion that players have the expectation that they can be perceived to have taken liberties against an opponent ( irrespective of the extend of actualy damage) and then get to say " no thank's, I'm not really interested in fighting". This has never happened, everyone knows that if it is perceived you have committed a transgression, that if someone comes calling you either answer or take a beating.

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03-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #781
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In that exchange, Emelin & Chara got 5 min for fighting, plus Chara got 5 for spearing and 2 for instigating, according to the boxscore. Is that correct? Spearing?
that cant be right, he sat 17 minutes. 5 fighting, 2 instigator 10 min misconduct, emelin 5 for fighting.

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03-04-2013, 11:22 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Im about as far from jack edwards as possible, I still laught about the pouliot quote.

You can say that the hit did not merit retribution, Chara disagreed and I can see a case for why he did it.

And if you are the type of fan that thinks its okay for players to take liberties on teamates ( and talented ones at that) and that you are going to get them on the scoreboard, I'm releived we dont skate together.

The notion that chara acted improperly is based exclusively on the misplaced notion that players have the expectation that they can be perceived to have taken liberties against an opponent ( irrespective of the extend of actualy damage) and then get to say " no thank's, I'm not really interested in fighting". This has never happened, everyone knows that if it is perceived you have committed a transgression, that if someone comes calling you either answer or take a beating.
What Emelin did deserved to be a penalty. Both teams were cross-checking each other all night, both teams were guilty of the type of hits I don't approve of but are natural in a heated game like that.

Chara did act on impulse. He could have intervened without immediately swinging at a guy with metal plates in his head, instead he lost his cool and paid the price. Emelin is no angel, and to his credit Emelin didn't make up an excuse but defended himself.

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03-04-2013, 11:25 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
that cant be right, he sat 17 minutes. 5 fighting, 2 instigator 10 min misconduct, emelin 5 for fighting.
Boxscore could be wrong then, that's unusual. I didn't see the spear for sure but when Chara charged and blindsided Emelin did he put the stick in? For sure he started punching while Emelin was down, maybe Emelin should have stayed down, given the risk?

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03-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #784
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What Emelin did deserved to be a penalty. Both teams were cross-checking each other all night, both teams were guilty of the type of hits I don't approve of but are natural in a heated game like that.
I must have been sleeping for a while, in what era of the NHL can a player ( irrespective of his "reputation") crosscheck an opposing teams young star who NEVER fights, and thinks he should be able to simply skate to the bench to end his shift ?

Either you are for players standing up for teamates or you are not. If you are not, I seriously question how well you understand the game. Saying that you want players ( especially a captain) to stand up for teamates, except when its against the habs, or a guy who has plates in his face, is transparently hipprocritical.

Its not like Chara is a spot picker, if it was markov or subban who did what emelin does, I dont think it changes Chara's actions one iota.

I get a lot of people dont like chara, but holding something against him that you should HOPE a canadien would do in the same circumstance is not logically defensible.

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03-04-2013, 11:39 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I must have been sleeping for a while, in what era of the NHL can a player ( irrespective of his "reputation") crosscheck an opposing teams young star who NEVER fights, and thinks he should be able to simply skate to the bench to end his shift ? Either you are for players standing up for teamates or you are not. If you are not, I seriously question how well you understand the game. Saying that you want players ( especially a captain) to stand up for teamates, except when its against the habs, or a guy who has plates in his face, is transparently hipprocritical.

Its not like Chara is a spot picker, if it was markov or subban who did what emelin does, I dont think it changes Chara's actions one iota.

I get a lot of people dont like chara, but holding something against him that you should HOPE a canadien would do in the same circumstance is not logically defensible.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that Seguin (and pretty much every player in the NHL, especially a forward) must get cross checked at least 4 or 5 times a games, if not more

What Emelin did warranted a penalty...what Chara did was not a very intelligent move and it probably cost the Bruins the game

Apparently, that got lost in all of Claude Julien's nonsense press conference after the game...

the guy got cross checked...happens all the time

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03-04-2013, 11:41 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I must have been sleeping for a while, in what era of the NHL can a player ( irrespective of his "reputation") crosscheck an opposing teams young star who NEVER fights, and thinks he should be able to simply skate to the bench to end his shift ?

Either you are for players standing up for teamates or you are not. If you are not, I seriously question how well you understand the game. Saying that you want players ( especially a captain) to stand up for teamates, except when its against the habs, or a guy who has plates in his face, is transparently hipprocritical.

Its not like Chara is a spot picker, if it was markov or subban who did what emelin does, I dont think it changes Chara's actions one iota.

I get a lot of people dont like chara, but holding something against him that you should HOPE a canadien would do in the same circumstance is not logically defensible.
"Standing up for your teammates" is often just a rationalization for hockey violence. Emelin's "crosscheck" wasn't even called by the referee who was right there, it was called by bruins fans on the internet. That does not make it a foul.

White Knight Chara has half the hits Emelin does but three times the penalty minutes Emelin does. He could have very seriously injured Emelin (and previously, Pacioretty). and he's far from the dirtiest guy on their squad, intimidation and violence are at the very center of their toxic culture.

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03-04-2013, 11:43 AM
  #787
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Boxscore could be wrong then, that's unusual. I didn't see the spear for sure but when Chara charged and blindsided Emelin did he put the stick in? For sure he started punching while Emelin was down, maybe Emelin should have stayed down, given the risk?
yeah its probably wrong. i just checked tsn.ca and their boxscore says fight instigator misconduct.

emelin is in a precarious position, he's not " established" so if he turtles, against the bruins in boston, he will the the tag that Claude lemieux did, but if he goes it could be his career. the league generally does not treat players who lay out big hits but wont fight well at all. I'm just glad that no one got seriously hurt, didnt think the cross check on seguin was all that bad but I understand that chara could have interpreted it another way.

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03-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #788
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yeah its probably wrong. i just checked tsn.ca and their boxscore says fight instigator misconduct.

emelin is in a precarious position, he's not " established" so if he turtles, against the bruins in boston, he will the the tag that Claude lemieux did, but if he goes it could be his career. the league generally does not treat players who lay out big hits but wont fight well at all. I'm just glad that no one got seriously hurt, didnt think the cross check on seguin was all that bad but I understand that chara could have interpreted it another way.
I don't think Chara is a dirty player at all, in fact, I think he more often than not takes it easy on most players because he knows how strong he is and what damage he could really do if he wanted too.

But every once in a while...the wires touch and Chara goes loco.

The hit on Pacioretty (not to revisit that again) & charging Emelin last night are two examples of a few that I can think of.

Just not a very smart play by Chara

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03-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #789
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"Standing up for your teammates" is often just a rationalization for hockey violence. Emelin's "crosscheck" wasn't even called by the referee who was right there, it was called by bruins fans on the internet. That does not make it a foul.

White Knight Chara has half the hits Emelin does but three times the penalty minutes Emelin does. He could have very seriously injured Emelin (and previously, Pacioretty). and he's far from the dirtiest guy on their squad, intimidation and violence are at the very center of their toxic culture.
standing up for teamates is not an excuse for violence. it sends a message.

I didnt like the hit on Subban behind the net, and I didnt like mCQuaid cross check after the goal. in either of those cases if one of the habs on the ice had responded, I'd be okay with it.

It might stick in some people's craw, and its not anywhere in the rule book but every player who laces them up knows that if you are seen taking liberties on non-physical "star" players, even if this does not result in any significant injury, that you can expect the other team to respond.

if guys want to take legal runs at stars, I'm still fine with guys standing up for their teamates even though it seems to be the biggest complaint on hfboards ( fights after clean hits).

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03-04-2013, 11:54 AM
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standing up for teamates is not an excuse for violence. it sends a message.

I didnt like the hit on Subban behind the net, and I didnt like mCQuaid cross check after the goal. in either of those cases if one of the habs on the ice had responded, I'd be okay with it.

It might stick in some people's craw, and its not anywhere in the rule book but every player who laces them up knows that if you are seen taking liberties on non-physical "star" players, even if this does not result in any significant injury, that you can expect the other team to respond.

if guys want to take legal runs at stars, I'm still fine with guys standing up for their teamates even though it seems to be the biggest complaint on hfboards ( fights after clean hits).
Come on man...he got cross checked

That happens to any player who stays too long in the crease. If players dropped the gloves everytime a player got cross checked, games would never end because of all the fighting.

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03-04-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
standing up for teamates is not an excuse for violence. it sends a message.

I didnt like the hit on Subban behind the net, and I didnt like mCQuaid cross check after the goal. in either of those cases if one of the habs on the ice had responded, I'd be okay with it.

It might stick in some people's craw, and its not anywhere in the rule book but every player who laces them up knows that if you are seen taking liberties on non-physical "star" players, even if this does not result in any significant injury, that you can expect the other team to respond.

if guys want to take legal runs at stars, I'm still fine with guys standing up for their teamates
even though it seems to be the biggest complaint on hfboards ( fights after clean hits).
Legal hitting isn't "taking liberties" it's a part of the game, the opposition can answer by hitting Habs players when they have the puck, not by skating across the rink to pummel (spear) an injured player when he's down. That's poor sportsmanship is unfortunately part of the bruins' culture.

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03-04-2013, 12:39 PM
  #792
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rule 9.6 says in response to injury and the opposition can contest whether a player should be allowed to wear a cage by protesting to Bettman. I dont know if anyone has ever done this, however.
It is in response to an injury though. Granted Emelin's case is in a bit of a grey area but at the end of the day if a doctor tells the NHL that he should wear a cage and then the NHL forbids it and Emelin does lose sight in his eye he would have a great case to sue. I think the NHL would want to avoid it and just let him wear a cage. It's not like the cage provides an unfair advantage.

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03-04-2013, 12:45 PM
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Legal hitting isn't "taking liberties" it's a part of the game, the opposition can answer by hitting Habs players when they have the puck, not by skating across the rink to pummel (spear) an injured player when he's down. That's poor sportsmanship is unfortunately part of the bruins' culture.
this is true, but I still have no problem with "grit" players standing up for " talent" players even if the hits are legal. I understand that a lot of people see it differently, c'est la vie.

Anyone who watched the game and saw Chara make a bee line to Emelin and then acts surprised at what transpired next is either ignorant or being disingenuous.

I generally dont think that guys standing up for teamates is poor sportsmanship, again that might just be me. Which is why I liked what white did to fleischman and though it was both appropriate and proportional. Same with what Chara did.

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03-04-2013, 12:50 PM
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It is in response to an injury though. Granted Emelin's case is in a bit of a grey area but at the end of the day if a doctor tells the NHL that he should wear a cage and then the NHL forbids it and Emelin does lose sight in his eye he would have a great case to sue. I think the NHL would want to avoid it and just let him wear a cage. It's not like the cage provides an unfair advantage.
are you serious ? With a cage you dont have to worry about high sticks, fights ( who is going to drop their gloves to punch metal?) and even two guy who hit face to face the guy without the cage will come out on the short end every time. imagine is gys like kaletta or ott could wear a full cage, what stops them from running wild ?

The game had inherant risks, emelin and every other player could get hit in the face with a puck, or in the throat like Mccleary. The rules say you cant wear a cage unless it is temporary. If emelin cant play under those conditions, he shouldnt play as opposed to thinking that an exception should be made for him.

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03-04-2013, 12:54 PM
  #795
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Legal hitting isn't "taking liberties" it's a part of the game, the opposition can answer by hitting Habs players when they have the puck, not by skating across the rink to pummel (spear) an injured player when he's down. That's poor sportsmanship is unfortunately part of the bruins' culture.
he wasnt speared, regardless of what the boxscore says. you cant get to seventeen with fight, instigator and spearing.

I also happen to think that a 6'2 guy who breaks his stick across the stomach/hip of a star player with a cross check is poor sportsmanship.

if standing up for a teamate is more part of the bruins culture, its one aspect that I would hope would be more engrained in montreals culture ( i think i just threw up a little in my mouth).

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03-04-2013, 01:57 PM
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That's absolutely retarded.

Nobody is forced to fight in hockey. Players are forced to take on hits. Contacts in hockey are unavoidable. Fights are avoidable.

Furthermore, that little crosscheck did not warrant Chara skating from the red line all the way done to our zone, completely check someone who isn't looking and then throw some bombs while the guy is down and turtling.

Emelin doesn't have to throw the fists if he doesn't want to. Even if he crosschecks an opponent on one play. It wasn't a dirty move, it was a simple routine crosscheck that happens every freaking game.
I have no problem with what Chara did as long as he gets penalized severely. Any player going after another player to basically physically assault him should be severely penalized. Given that it cost them the match, I think Chara will think twice before doing that again.

But I agree: for a crosscheck, that was an over-the-top retaliation.

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03-04-2013, 02:37 PM
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Boxscore could be wrong then, that's unusual. I didn't see the spear for sure but when Chara charged and blindsided Emelin did he put the stick in? For sure he started punching while Emelin was down, maybe Emelin should have stayed down, given the risk?
Spear and your out of game if it was a spear.

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03-04-2013, 03:42 PM
  #798
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he wasnt speared, regardless of what the boxscore says. you cant get to seventeen with fight, instigator and spearing.

I also happen to think that a 6'2 guy who breaks his stick across the stomach/hip of a star player with a cross check is poor sportsmanship.

if standing up for a teamate is more part of the bruins culture, its one aspect that I would hope would be more engrained in montreals culture ( i think i just threw up a little in my mouth).

If standing up for a teammate means jumping and pummeling a guy half a foot shorter and 40 lbs lighter -- a guy who has a severe injury and plates in his face from a surgery -- then I think the bruins taken any virtue out of the concept. And, Seguin clearly embellished a la Ribeiro.

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03-04-2013, 03:44 PM
  #799
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are you serious ? With a cage you dont have to worry about high sticks, fights ( who is going to drop their gloves to punch metal?) and even two guy who hit face to face the guy without the cage will come out on the short end every time. imagine is gys like kaletta or ott could wear a full cage, what stops them from running wild ?

The game had inherant risks, emelin and every other player could get hit in the face with a puck, or in the throat like Mccleary. The rules say you cant wear a cage unless it is temporary. If emelin cant play under those conditions, he shouldnt play as opposed to thinking that an exception should be made for him.
Can't find this in the rules.

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03-04-2013, 03:52 PM
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Emelin is not scared of his face? Man I would stop playing hockey if I was him.. accident could happen anytime..

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