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Old
03-03-2013, 11:35 PM
  #301
JonathanHuberdoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
he drafted all of TWO years and i'll remind you that markstrom and robak were his picks. if tallon hadn't thrown away ellerby, those two years would not look so bad.


This makes no sense. If a player is drafted 10th overall in the NHL Entry Draft, then not even 6 years later is traded for a 5th round draft pick, that is not throwing Ellerby away. This is a very bad DRAFT PICK and the player is a bust.

Keaton sure is tearing it up down there in LA, that 1 assist has him tied for 482nd in the ENTIRE league!

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03-04-2013, 01:02 AM
  #302
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Canuck fan in Peace.

Does Weiss have a NTC? and if so.. has he refused to waive it?

From reading these boards and looking at his stat line.. he probably should look in to waiving it.

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03-04-2013, 03:29 AM
  #303
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Ottawa Sun has reported that Wings have asked for Stephen Weiss...Really?


Please take him off our hands quickly!

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03-04-2013, 05:02 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Canuck fan in Peace.

Does Weiss have a NTC? and if so.. has he refused to waive it?

From reading these boards and looking at his stat line.. he probably should look in to waiving it.
Yes he does.

I'm not sure what's causing this slump. I mean it's one thing to be angry to not be locked up before the season, I guess, but to play this bad is bad for himself.

As much as I want him moved, due to just wanting a fresh slate from the dark era, something has to be affecting him. Grandma or injury, this isn't like him at all.

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03-04-2013, 05:45 AM
  #305
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Compounding his groin injury and loss of grandmother, Club Red probably killed whatever sense of positive momentum Weiss developed from last season.

A slightly far-fetched theory, but last season gave us hope we were moving away from an embarrassing era of Panther-adorned urinal cakes and gross mismanagement of assets, but then Club Red happens and it's a painful reminder that little has changed on one front.

Weiss has suffered through a near-decade of mediocrity, revolving door management/coaching, AHL-caliber teammates, bush league marketing, and witnessing his peers move onto other markets with varying degrees of success. That experience has to have had a substantially negative effect on his morale.

I'd hate to see him moved, but it's probably the best scenario for both parties. Maybe slotting him onto the 3rd line for a few games can kickstart his engine a bit, but doing so adversely affects his trade value.

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03-04-2013, 06:18 AM
  #306
adam graves
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People have to stop being Weiss apologists. Good players have bad years. period.

We sound infantile blaming his not being captain, phantom injuries, his contract year, his grandma dying, his dog eating his homework, etc etc.

He sucks this year, period.

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03-04-2013, 06:28 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Well, yeah. He probably shouldn't have been a GM.

But still, my point is we shouldn't fire Dineen. People used to say the same things about DeBoer (basically everyone but zeroG), and DeBoer is now doing fine in NJ.

Bottom line is, we're not blowing leads and losing games because the coach sucks. We're doing those things because the team isn't good enough right now.

I'm sure if Markstrom comes up and make some saves, Dineen is going to look a lot better.

The team is basically playing the same way it played last year. The only major difference is that the goaltenders were making saves last year.
Your a smart poster but that comment is ridiculous. Goaltending is down this year, no doubt. But the defense and forwards are playing like complete trash. This is a pathetic shell of last years team.

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03-04-2013, 06:51 AM
  #308
adam graves
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake23 View Post
Your a smart poster but that comment is ridiculous. Goaltending is down this year, no doubt. But the defense and forwards are playing like complete trash. This is a pathetic shell of last years team.
go back and look how many games we have been down 3,4 nothing before the middle of the second. It is beyond deflating when the goaltending lets you down. or blows a lead with soft goals?

Our O is no weaker then last year where one line carries us for the most part; our D is somewhat weaker for sure. However, had goaltending stepped up we likely would be in playoff bubble mode, not tank mode.

Many said before the season started to rely on an aging solid goalie in his last yr and an aging lifetime backup was a huge risk, rather than playing the up and coming star. It wasn't rocket science to note that.

And the goaltending is the most glaring difference than last yr.

That was Erick's point and it was a good one.

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03-04-2013, 06:58 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
go back and look how many games we have been down 3,4 nothing before the middle of the second. It is beyond deflating when the goaltending lets you down. or blows a lead with soft goals?

Our O is no weaker then last year where one line carries us for the most part; our D is somewhat weaker for sure. However, had goaltending stepped up we likely would be in playoff bubble mode, not tank mode.

Many said before the season started to rely on an aging solid goalie in his last yr and an aging lifetime backup was a huge risk, rather than playing the up and coming star. It wasn't rocket science to note that.

And the goaltending is the most glaring difference than last yr.

That was Erick's point and it was a good one.
I dont disagree the goaltending has been bad. Im not argueing that point. But do you also think that this team is "basically playing the same way it played last year?". I'm sorry but I can't agree to that. Top to bottom, the roster has been horrendous.

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03-04-2013, 08:42 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by jakethesnake23 View Post
I dont disagree the goaltending has been bad. Im not argueing that point. But do you also think that this team is "basically playing the same way it played last year?". I'm sorry but I can't agree to that. Top to bottom, the roster has been horrendous.
I agree 100%.

Defense this year really sucks this year. Garrison was a stable dman regardless of his point totals (which I might add helped us tremendously). We have Kuba and Jovo in their wheelchairs on the ice in the beginning. Kuba warmed up a bit, but he still not worth the price tag.

Our forward lineup is pretty bad. Weiss/steeger with injuries playing in a funk, flash trying to go solo, Skille playing with his energetic selfish play, bergenhiem/upshall injured, the list goes on. Take a hard look at our lineup. Playoffs? you kidding? We have freaking Santorelli, skille and kovalev playing for us. that realization speaks in volumes.

Our goaltending has been verry shotty. Would rather have a markstrom/theo tadem. Of course our goaltenders have not received any decent help from our forwards/dmen when we can't keep them out of our zone hemmed.


This shorten season was bull**** from the start, plain and simple. Glad to see some positive things come out like the kid line and now a great draft.

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03-04-2013, 08:56 AM
  #311
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The goaltending is the same as last year? they've been brutal this year. Last year we ended the season 19th in goals against..This year we are last..We are also 19th in shots against last year, we are currently 24th in shots against. The goalies are seeing more shots and letting in more goals. But I will say a drop of 5 in shots against should not yield a drop of 11 in goals against?

As far as offense goes, we have moved up 5 spots from 27th last year to 22nd this year. The defense and goaltending is a major issue on this team, they are both not playing up to par.

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03-04-2013, 09:49 AM
  #312
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Weiss having 4 points is unacceptable...that's as many points as Smithson

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03-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
Weiss having 4 points is unacceptable...that's as many points as Smithson
And they're both one point behind the guy we're apparently trying to rid ourselves of, Mr. Kovalev.

I understand players have slumps but there must be something more going on than we know with Weiss. If he does somehow re-sign here, 3 years @ $4million/year would be my offer and not a dollar higher. That contract is based on him having an average of (4) 20 goal, 60 point seasons and a great deal of loyalty while we were drowning the last 12 years as a franchise.

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03-04-2013, 10:01 AM
  #314
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Mike Brown traded to Edmonton for a 4th-round pick in '14. You can beat that Weiss.

-ghoste

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03-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #315
adam graves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakethesnake23 View Post
I dont disagree the goaltending has been bad. Im not argueing that point. But do you also think that this team is "basically playing the same way it played last year?". I'm sorry but I can't agree to that. Top to bottom, the roster has been horrendous.

Im saying the goaltending difference from last yr is the most glaring and has been absolutely putrid.

I agree with you 100% the D has worsened as well and thats most likely the extreme downgrade from Garrison to Kuba.

Where we disagree, jake, is the O. I dont think its been that different. We were a one line team last yr, and we are the same this yr, just the characters of that one line are different. As iceman said above, we have actually moved up in O production.

In sum IMHO had we had our traditional good solid goaltending wed have 5-7 more points and the same playoff bubble team we were last yr.

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03-04-2013, 10:09 AM
  #316
adam graves
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
And they're both one point behind the guy we're apparently trying to rid ourselves of, Mr. Kovalev.

I understand players have slumps but there must be something more going on than we know with Weiss. If he does somehow re-sign here, 3 years @ $4million/year would be my offer and not a dollar higher. That contract is based on him having an average of (4) 20 goal, 60 point seasons and a great deal of loyalty while we were drowning the last 12 years as a franchise.
I uderstand and admire your wanting to repay his loyalty.

What empirical evidence do you have that he will score 20 goals ever again?

I would go 3yrs 8 mil and if he doesnt sign wish him the best of luck. We can spend the $ better IMHO.

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03-04-2013, 10:24 AM
  #317
adam graves
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BTW, Weiss ran out of the locker room both postgames prior to media.

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03-04-2013, 11:00 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post


This makes no sense. If a player is drafted 10th overall in the NHL Entry Draft, then not even 6 years later is traded for a 5th round draft pick, that is not throwing Ellerby away. This is a very bad DRAFT PICK and the player is a bust.

Keaton sure is tearing it up down there in LA, that 1 assist has him tied for 482nd in the ENTIRE league!
have you watched him play out there? he looks good. he's being given a good amount of minutes, even if he's not paired with doughty (was the first game he played and that's when he got the assist). he is still very much capable of being a good top 4 Dman. in fact, that's what he looks like in LA right now. that is not a bust. he could've been at least a bottom pairing guy for us this year... should've been. but tallon handcuffed himself with some lousy contracts. ellerby is better than half of the Dmen we're icing every night (with more upside) and had more value to us in the lineup than a 5th round pick does for our future. bad decision.

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03-04-2013, 11:36 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Im saying the goaltending difference from last yr is the most glaring and has been absolutely putrid.

I agree with you 100% the D has worsened as well and thats most likely the extreme downgrade from Garrison to Kuba.

Where we disagree, jake, is the O. I dont think its been that different. We were a one line team last yr, and we are the same this yr, just the characters of that one line are different. As iceman said above, we have actually moved up in O production.

In sum IMHO had we had our traditional good solid goaltending wed have 5-7 more points and the same playoff bubble team we were last yr.
I don't know. Our team defense is awful. We leave our goalies in positions where they have to constantly make big saves or we lose. We never gave up this many quality scoring chances last year. Theo and Clemm have been disappointing but I think it's just that it's easier to blame the goalies because when they screw up it's a goal against.

Last night when Guds was in good position and Campbell let Semin go around him, Clemmer had no chance on that. That's the type of thing that didn't happen with frequency last year. We've done nothing to help them. Poor positioning in our zone, sloppy/lazy coverage, don't clear the front of the net, screen our own goalies, etc etc the list goes on and on. Goalies have stunk but the team hasn't done anything to help them out.

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03-04-2013, 11:40 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
have you watched him play out there? he looks good. he's being given a good amount of minutes, even if he's not paired with doughty (was the first game he played and that's when he got the assist). he is still very much capable of being a good top 4 Dman. in fact, that's what he looks like in LA right now. that is not a bust. he could've been at least a bottom pairing guy for us this year... should've been. but tallon handcuffed himself with some lousy contracts. ellerby is better than half of the Dmen we're icing every night (with more upside) and had more value to us in the lineup than a 5th round pick does for our future. bad decision.
Agree!!

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03-04-2013, 12:12 PM
  #321
adam graves
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I don't know. Our team defense is awful. We leave our goalies in positions where they have to constantly make big saves or we lose. We never gave up this many quality scoring chances last year. Theo and Clemm have been disappointing but I think it's just that it's easier to blame the goalies because when they screw up it's a goal against.

Last night when Guds was in good position and Campbell let Semin go around him, Clemmer had no chance on that. That's the type of thing that didn't happen with frequency last year. We've done nothing to help them. Poor positioning in our zone, sloppy/lazy coverage, don't clear the front of the net, screen our own goalies, etc etc the list goes on and on. Goalies have stunk but the team hasn't done anything to help them out.
All true. Which is why i stated the D has been dissapointing as well.

Itll be interesting to compare Markstrom's Sv percentage at the end of the yr to see if the poor D results in his being similiar.

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03-04-2013, 12:45 PM
  #322
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What kind of return would Panthers fans be looking for for Weiss?

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03-04-2013, 01:58 PM
  #323
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What kind of return would Panthers fans be looking for for Weiss?
When the season started, a first and a decent prospect. Now? I don't know how much his value has dropped. Maybe just a first?

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03-04-2013, 02:03 PM
  #324
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When the season started, a first and a decent prospect. Now? I don't know how much his value has dropped. Maybe just a first?
I'd be fine with a 1st and a forward the other team wants to get rid of if the said player is a UFA after this season, since most of the teams that want Weiss are close to the cap and max contract limit.

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03-04-2013, 02:10 PM
  #325
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I'd be fine with a 1st and a forward the other team wants to get rid of if the said player is a UFA after this season, since most of the teams that want Weiss are close to the cap and max contract limit.
Preferably a Center though if a player is added to the 1st rounder. What's Tallon's plan to patch up the Center depth for the 2013-14 season? I'm guessing sign a FA Center?

Shore and Goc are the only ones signed right now, Matthias is probably a lock to re-sign though. Can we assume Bjugstad will crack the lineup and play Center next year?

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