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03-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #326
RainingRats
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Preferably a Center though if a player is added to the 1st rounder. What's Tallon's plan to patch up the Center depth for the 2013-14 season? I'm guessing sign a FA Center?

Shore and Goc are the only ones signed right now, Matthias is probably a lock to re-sign though. Can we assume Bjugstad will crack the lineup and play Center next year?
No team is going to give us a potential replacement for Weiss. Tallon will have to figure something out.

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03-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Preferably a Center though if a player is added to the 1st rounder. What's Tallon's plan to patch up the Center depth for the 2013-14 season? I'm guessing sign a FA Center?

Shore and Goc are the only ones signed right now, Matthias is probably a lock to re-sign though. Can we assume Bjugstad will crack the lineup and play Center next year?
There isn't really a single center in the offseason worth the $$ they're bound to get from some stupid GM. Maybe Filppula in the 3 million range (he's bound to get a lot more thou), but he's more suitable at wing..

Kopecky can play C too, so IMO if Weiss gets traded, it'll look something like this for the rest of the season:

Flash - Kopecky - Skille
Kid line
Matthias - Goc - Upshall/the unwanted future UFA from Weiss deal
Santo - Smithson - Parros

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03-04-2013, 02:39 PM
  #328
adam graves
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
There isn't really a single center in the offseason worth the $$ they're bound to get from some stupid GM. Maybe Filppula in the 3 million range (he's bound to get a lot more thou), but he's more suitable at wing..

Kopecky can play C too, so IMO if Weiss gets traded, it'll look something like this for the rest of the season:

Flash - Kopecky - Skille
Kid line
Matthias - Goc - Upshall/the unwanted future UFA from Weiss deal
Santo - Smithson - Parros
kopecky is not a good center...he will tell you that himself.

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03-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #329
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kopecky is not a good center...he will tell you that himself.
I know I know, but he's the best option of the four players (Kopecky, Flash, Matthias and Santo) that can play center available.

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03-04-2013, 02:48 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
There isn't really a single center in the offseason worth the $$ they're bound to get from some stupid GM. Maybe Filppula in the 3 million range (he's bound to get a lot more thou), but he's more suitable at wing..

Kopecky can play C too, so IMO if Weiss gets traded, it'll look something like this for the rest of the season:

Flash - Kopecky - Skille
Kid line
Matthias - Goc - Upshall/the unwanted future UFA from Weiss deal
Santo - Smithson - Parros
Ya I'd maybe switch Kopecky with Matthias and run with that. I would be fine if Dineen let Matthias center a line between Flash and Versteeg (when he's back). Matthias is more noticable than Weiss right now anyhow.

Maybe a guy like Drew Miller(4th liner from Detroit) could be that unwanted guy, he's a UFA and not a huge contract liability if he was to re-sign somewhere else or even wants to try out South Florida for a year or two.

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03-04-2013, 03:06 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by CanadianPanther View Post
Ya I'd maybe switch Kopecky with Matthias and run with that. I would be fine if Dineen let Matthias center a line between Flash and Versteeg (when he's back). Matthias is more noticable than Weiss right now anyhow.

Maybe a guy like Drew Miller(4th liner from Detroit) could be that unwanted guy, he's a UFA and not a huge contract liability if he was to re-sign somewhere else or even wants to try out South Florida for a year or two.
I would like Miller + Eaves on our team, even Kindl would be a good dman project to take on.

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03-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
There isn't really a single center in the offseason worth the $$ they're bound to get from some stupid GM. Maybe Filppula in the 3 million range (he's bound to get a lot more thou), but he's more suitable at wing..

Kopecky can play C too, so IMO if Weiss gets traded, it'll look something like this for the rest of the season:

Flash - Kopecky - Skille
Kid line
Matthias - Goc - Upshall/the unwanted future UFA from Weiss deal
Santo - Smithson - Parros
Your lineup is missing Versteeg who probably would be on a line with Flash. I think Goc could center those 2 and then shift Kopecky to the 3rd line at the wing where he's most natural.

My gut instinct says the team shuts Upshall down for the season even if he becomes healthy so they can use a buyout on him this offseason (you cant buyout an injured player so they need him to be healthy before the end of the yr).

We definitely need a guy to replace Weiss and I just dont know who that could be. There's the thought process (via their beat writer, Dater) in Denver that with RoR now signed, the Avs may want to get him additional ice time and to do that, they would trade Statsny. He only has 1 yr remaining on his deal (@ $6.6M in salary) though but that would be an interesting idea for us as a stopgap while we try to develop Bjugstad next yr in the minors.

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03-04-2013, 04:02 PM
  #333
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have you watched him play out there? he looks good. he's being given a good amount of minutes, even if he's not paired with doughty (was the first game he played and that's when he got the assist). he is still very much capable of being a good top 4 Dman. in fact, that's what he looks like in LA right now. that is not a bust. he could've been at least a bottom pairing guy for us this year... should've been. but tallon handcuffed himself with some lousy contracts. ellerby is better than half of the Dmen we're icing every night (with more upside) and had more value to us in the lineup than a 5th round pick does for our future. bad decision.
Ellerby couldn't beat any of them for a job, he couldn't beat Strachan who doesn't have a big contract, so stop making excuses for him. He's playing better there, he didn't here. I'd rather have him than Kuba, but he didn't beat him out. I'm sure you'll carry on about something as usual, but thats the fact that matters. Thus, he's gone. Sorry pal

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03-04-2013, 04:15 PM
  #334
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I wouldn't be shocked to See Bjugstad and Shore be our top 6 centers next year.

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03-04-2013, 04:15 PM
  #335
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Your lineup is missing Versteeg who probably would be on a line with Flash. I think Goc could center those 2 and then shift Kopecky to the 3rd line at the wing where he's most natural.
Who knows how long Versteeg is out, and quite frankly, IMO he wouldn't make a difference. Tired of his floating.

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My gut instinct says the team shuts Upshall down for the season even if he becomes healthy so they can use a buyout on him this offseason (you cant buyout an injured player so they need him to be healthy before the end of the yr).
I think Tallon will heavily shop Upshall around the league for next to nothing, might even add a pick to make him look more desirable.

No offense to Islanders fans, but that's where I think he'll end up. Like this organization, Islanders have a hard time attracting UFAs to come there without a huge overpayment. There's no easier way to get a guy like Upshall for two more years.

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We definitely need a guy to replace Weiss and I just dont know who that could be. There's the thought process (via their beat writer, Dater) in Denver that with RoR now signed, the Avs may want to get him additional ice time and to do that, they would trade Statsny. He only has 1 yr remaining on his deal (@ $6.6M in salary) though but that would be an interesting idea for us as a stopgap while we try to develop Bjugstad next yr in the minors.
Statsny sounds tempting, but I'm not sure if Tallon is willing to pay the price to get him, which will probably be one of his "untouchables" and at least a 2nd, if not more.

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03-04-2013, 05:26 PM
  #336
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Your a smart poster but that comment is ridiculous. Goaltending is down this year, no doubt. But the defense and forwards are playing like complete trash. This is a pathetic shell of last years team.
I don't think it's all that ridiculous, to be honest.

We're actually scoring more than we did last year. The defense looks much worse this year because goalies aren't making the saves they were making last year. We were not a good defensive team last year either.

The main difference is in the goaltending.

Last year, our team save% was .914, 9th best in hockey. This year, our team save% is .882, 2nd worst in hockey and worst in the Eastern Conference.

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03-04-2013, 05:29 PM
  #337
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have you watched him play out there? he looks good.
He looks so good that he started on the 1st d-pair and was quickly demoted.
He's playing a little over 15 minutes per game there, which is the same amount of ice time he got here.

Keaton Ellerby is extremely replaceable. The fact that he's clearly better than some of our d-man only shows how bad some of our d-men are. It says nothing about Keaton Ellerby.

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03-04-2013, 06:19 PM
  #338
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I wouldn't be shocked to See Bjugstad and Shore be our top 6 centers next year.
We may not have much of a choice.

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03-04-2013, 07:51 PM
  #339
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I don't think it's all that ridiculous, to be honest.

We're actually scoring more than we did last year. The defense looks much worse this year because goalies aren't making the saves they were making last year. We were not a good defensive team last year either.

The main difference is in the goaltending.

Last year, our team save% was .914, 9th best in hockey. This year, our team save% is .882, 2nd worst in hockey and worst in the Eastern Conference.
Sorry I was probably a little harsh in my wording, but I guess we just disagree. IMO, our defense was exponentially better last year and is at least equally as bad as the goaltending this year. I do not believe that if we had last years goaltending we would be in the same position as last year (ie leading the division). And if you dont think we would be leading our division if we had last years goaltending then you do agree, by definition, that the team isn't as good as last year.

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03-04-2013, 07:52 PM
  #340
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I wouldn't be shocked to See Bjugstad and Shore be our top 6 centers next year.
I have a feeling thats how it will be

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03-04-2013, 08:01 PM
  #341
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I wouldn't be shocked to See Bjugstad and Shore be our top 6 centers next year.
that wouldnt upset me.

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03-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #342
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I wouldn't be shocked to See Bjugstad and Shore be our top 6 centers next year.
Do not be surprised to see Trochek make a push straight from JR.

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03-04-2013, 08:37 PM
  #343
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Ellerby couldn't beat any of them for a job, he couldn't beat Strachan who doesn't have a big contract, so stop making excuses for him. He's playing better there, he didn't here. I'd rather have him than Kuba, but he didn't beat him out. I'm sure you'll carry on about something as usual, but thats the fact that matters. Thus, he's gone. Sorry pal
so you're saying that strachan, kuba and weaver played better hockey than he did? c'mon man. he wasn't ever given a real chance. tallon and dineen may have their reasons but from where i sit, he's a better option than any of those guys and the value of a young, cheap and good Dman to a team like us (hell, any team) should be way more than a 5th round pick. that should've counted for something as well.

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He looks so good that he started on the 1st d-pair and was quickly demoted.
He's playing a little over 15 minutes per game there, which is the same amount of ice time he got here.

Keaton Ellerby is extremely replaceable. The fact that he's clearly better than some of our d-man only shows how bad some of our d-men are. It says nothing about Keaton Ellerby.
i agree. never said he was irreplaceable, just that he held much more value for us as a cheap, young, good Dman than any of those other guys who make more (probably even through ellerby's next contract) and will be gone in 1-2 years. and i still say he has some upside as a puck mover (not really in terms of point generation).

when you consider he played at least well if not better than most of them, the decision to dump him looks rather questionable.

anyhow, enough about ellerby. i do have a nagging feeling tho that it might be part of a larger problem where better value is going the other way, out of florida. i turned on the Bs and habs last night and who was on the ice with 30 seconds left when the (now) 14-3-2 Bs needed a goal? yep - horton and campbell. and they've already got a ring there. what do we have to show for that trade? howden? yeah, i know - horton didn't want to be here blah blah blah. i don't really buy that crap, tbh (not that he didn't say trade me but that it was the correct approach in the first place to ask that question).

back to weiss, i feel bad for him, really - this was the year he's been waiting for and it ends up being a turd of a year with everyone being hurt, goaltending falling apart and him dealing with what must be some kind of nagging injury. i'm thinking he might actually consider resigning a one year deal to get a do-over.

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03-04-2013, 08:41 PM
  #344
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I don't think it's all that ridiculous, to be honest.

We're actually scoring more than we did last year. The defense looks much worse this year because goalies aren't making the saves they were making last year. We were not a good defensive team last year either.

The main difference is in the goaltending.

Last year, our team save% was .914, 9th best in hockey. This year, our team save% is .882, 2nd worst in hockey and worst in the Eastern Conference.
i agree - we were not good defensively last year. goaltending saved our bacon. if not for goaltending and the great start by the top line, we'd look like... well, just like we do this year! pretty pathetic.

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03-04-2013, 09:02 PM
  #345
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so you're saying that strachan, kuba and weaver played better hockey than he did? c'mon man. he wasn't ever given a real chance. tallon and dineen may have their reasons but from where i sit, he's a better option than any of those guys and the value of a young, cheap and good Dman to a team like us (hell, any team) should be way more than a 5th round pick. that should've counted for something as well.



i agree. never said he was irreplaceable, just that he held much more value for us as a cheap, young, good Dman than any of those other guys who make more (probably even through ellerby's next contract) and will be gone in 1-2 years. and i still say he has some upside as a puck mover (not really in terms of point generation).

when you consider he played at least well if not better than most of them, the decision to dump him looks rather questionable.

anyhow, enough about ellerby. i do have a nagging feeling tho that it might be part of a larger problem where better value is going the other way, out of florida. i turned on the Bs and habs last night and who was on the ice with 30 seconds left when the (now) 14-3-2 Bs needed a goal? yep - horton and campbell. and they've already got a ring there. what do we have to show for that trade? howden? yeah, i know - horton didn't want to be here blah blah blah. i don't really buy that crap, tbh (not that he didn't say trade me but that it was the correct approach in the first place to ask that question).

back to weiss, i feel bad for him, really - this was the year he's been waiting for and it ends up being a turd of a year with everyone being hurt, goaltending falling apart and him dealing with what must be some kind of nagging injury. i'm thinking he might actually consider resigning a one year deal to get a do-over.
The problem with Horton, much like the problem with Weiss, is not what he was, but what he wasn't. He wasn't a difference maker - wasn't a star - wasn't a special player.

I'm not arguing that a better trade couldn't have been made, but I don't think these Panthers would be a substantially better team with Nathan Horton on it. Getting Bjugstad, Rau & Racine in exchange is certainly not something to sneeze at. Campbell needed to go - as one of DeBoer's favorites, he always seemed to get ice time that exceeded his performance on ice. He is currently 2-2-4 (minus 3) and is another player who simply does not make a difference.

I can understand your criticisms and I like the fact that you look at things with a jaded eye. Certainly not all of Tallon's moves have been golden. On the other hand I think you tend to gloss over a lot of the deficiencies and problems with previous regimes. (i.e. ignoring the fact that DeBoer treated Ellerby in the same fashion... pointing out that Martin drafted Markstrom in 2008 but neglecting that he traded the first round pick (#10) and 2 seconds for Vokoun and drafted Ellerby/Repik/Dadanov in the 2007 draft)

It makes me wonder if you are simply trying to be a contrarian rather than engage in meaningful discourse.

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03-04-2013, 09:09 PM
  #346
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so you're saying that strachan, kuba and weaver played better hockey than he did? c'mon man. he wasn't ever given a real chance. tallon and dineen may have their reasons but from where i sit, he's a better option than any of those guys and the value of a young, cheap and good Dman to a team like us (hell, any team) should be way more than a 5th round pick. that should've counted for something as well.



i agree. never said he was irreplaceable, just that he held much more value for us as a cheap, young, good Dman than any of those other guys who make more (probably even through ellerby's next contract) and will be gone in 1-2 years. and i still say he has some upside as a puck mover (not really in terms of point generation).

when you consider he played at least well if not better than most of them, the decision to dump him looks rather questionable.

anyhow, enough about ellerby. i do have a nagging feeling tho that it might be part of a larger problem where better value is going the other way, out of florida. i turned on the Bs and habs last night and who was on the ice with 30 seconds left when the (now) 14-3-2 Bs needed a goal? yep - horton and campbell. and they've already got a ring there. what do we have to show for that trade? howden? yeah, i know - horton didn't want to be here blah blah blah. i don't really buy that crap, tbh (not that he didn't say trade me but that it was the correct approach in the first place to ask that question).

back to weiss, i feel bad for him, really - this was the year he's been waiting for and it ends up being a turd of a year with everyone being hurt, goaltending falling apart and him dealing with what must be some kind of nagging injury. i'm thinking he might actually consider resigning a one year deal to get a do-over.
Bjugstad

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03-04-2013, 10:14 PM
  #347
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It makes me wonder if you are simply trying to be a contrarian rather than engage in meaningful discourse.
It sure looks like it is. Keeping Horton and Campbell would have allowed this franchise only one thing, staying in the 9 to 11 rank and keep being mediocre. The concept here was to make tabula rasa and get as many and the best prospects possible to set this team for a real 5 years plan.

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03-04-2013, 10:35 PM
  #348
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Horton was traded because he told Tallon he did not want to be here anymore. Not sure why we're supposed to believe that was made up.

Either way, getting Bjugstad could turn out to be quite the nice trade if he lives up to expectations.

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03-05-2013, 12:10 AM
  #349
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If Shore and Bjugstad are our top 6 centers next season, we're not going to make the playoffs. I don't think that's how it will be. Tallon will bring in somebody, they may not even be as good as the old Weiss, but somebody to insulate Shore and Bjugstad. If they exceed expectations, then that's a good thing.

I think if Bjugstad makes the team, he probably starts out at wing. I don't see why we couldn't sign someone like Bozak to a reasonable deal. I think the only exception is if we draft MacKinnon. He'd probably be penciled in as the #1 center.

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03-05-2013, 07:49 AM
  #350
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If Shore and Bjugstad are our top 6 centers next season, we're not going to make the playoffs. I don't think that's how it will be. Tallon will bring in somebody, they may not even be as good as the old Weiss, but somebody to insulate Shore and Bjugstad. If they exceed expectations, then that's a good thing.

I think if Bjugstad makes the team, he probably starts out at wing. I don't see why we couldn't sign someone like Bozak to a reasonable deal. I think the only exception is if we draft MacKinnon. He'd probably be penciled in as the #1 center.
No. Management has made it clear they don't want to put rookies in the line-up right away, especially not on the top line right away....

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