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Teemu's Powerplay Time Decrease...

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #26
Ducks DVM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Really?

Last 5 games PP ice time:

Some guy with 250 career PP goals:

1:46
2:23
1:18
0:35
1:05

total: 7:07

Awesome golden god with 2 career PP goals:

3:18
3:26
3:47
1:25
3:19

total: 15:20

Yes, I'm pissed.
Yes, because the top unit is controlling the puck, not leaving the zone, and not having the puck frozen - so they stay on the ice.

Stats lie. The PP is producing with the current personnel. It would be foolish to change it.

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03-04-2013, 03:15 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Really?

Last 5 games PP ice time:

Some guy with 250 career PP goals:

1:46
2:23
1:18
0:35
1:05

total: 7:07

Awesome golden god with 2 career PP goals:

3:18
3:26
3:47
1:25
3:19

total: 15:20

Yes, I'm pissed.
Goes to show I shouldn't make statements without looking at stats, even though they can be misleading. The last couple games, the top unit has been dominant at puck retrieval and staying in the zone, hence the larger differential in PPTOI.

edit: It was just the "feeling" I got from watching the games that had me mention the 50/50 splits. I just remember Getzlaf and Perry never coming off the ice during a PP.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Really?

Last 5 games PP ice time:

Some guy with 250 career PP goals:

1:46
2:23
1:18
0:35
1:05

total: 7:07

Awesome golden god with 2 career PP goals:

3:18
3:26
3:47
1:25
3:19

total: 15:20

Yes, I'm pissed.
Yup. Selanne is getting hosed by BB. I think its a farce replacing him with a guy like Nick Bonino. Remember, the second unit only gets PP time if the first unit doesn't score. Demoting Teemu to unit #2 severely cuts into his PP time, and therefore his point production. Perhaps Teemu is ok with it, perhaps he even suggested it. Who knows really. Teams should be focused on maximizing their opportunities, and as great as Getz/Perry have been, the unit is not fully maximized without Teemu with them as well, like he was to begin the season.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:19 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Those players are now playing on the PP2. Should I take Getz and Perry's points with a grain of salt aswell since they got some of their points while playing with Selanne and Souray?
Take or however you wish to. My point was that just totaling points like that makes it look like the 2nd PP has been getting all the production, when in fact quite a few of those points have been with different alignments of players.

My other point was that the PP is producing consistently with its current makeup, and changing things because some armchair coaches want their favorite players to get more ice time or play on a particular unit is.....poorly thought out. It ain't broke. Don't fix it.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Take or however you wish to. My point was that just totaling points like that makes it look like the 2nd PP has been getting all the production, when in fact quite a few of those points have been with different alignments of players.

My other point was that the PP is producing consistently with its current makeup, and changing things because some armchair coaches want their favorite players to get more ice time or play on a particular unit is.....poorly thought out. It ain't broke. Don't fix it.
But the PP2 is producing more and it has the more productive players this season. Yet the 1st PP gets double the PP time.

My point is that Selanne is getting far too little PP ice time considering it's where he shines.

last 5 games PP1 has needed 5:05 ice time for a goal
last 5 games PP2 has needed 1:47 ice time for a goal

PP1 gets 68.2% of the ice time
PP2 gets 31.8% of the ice time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Stats lie.
Damn those lying stats must love me because they are lying to my benefit all the way.


Last edited by jepjepjoo: 03-04-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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03-04-2013, 03:38 PM
  #31
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But PP unit 2 is facing weaker defensive opposition.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:41 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthnator View Post
But PP unit 2 is facing weaker defensive opposition.
Point out another team who has more productive PP2 than PP1. Better yet give me a team who has more productive PP2 with half of the ice time of PP1.

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03-04-2013, 03:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Point out another team who has more productive PP2 than PP1. Better yet give me a team who has more productive PP2 with half of the ice time of PP1.
I don't have the heart to start going trough the stats.

I'm sure if it continues we will see a some kind of change.

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03-04-2013, 03:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
But the PP2 is producing more and it has the more productive players this season. Yet the 1st PP gets double the PP time.

My point is that Selanne is getting far too little PP ice time considering it's where he shines.

last 5 games PP1 has needed 5:05 ice time for a goal
last 5 games PP2 has needed 1:47 ice time for a goal

PP1 gets 68.2% of the ice time
PP2 gets 31.8% of the ice time



Damn those lying stats must love me because they are lying to my benefit all the way.
No, you're just misusing them. You're stat-wise enough to know that. If you actually watch the games, you know that the PP 1 comes off the ice right about 1 minute in. There's even plenty of *****ing about it in old threads when Selanne was on the PP 1 because people thought they should get MORE than half the time. The only reason they stay on is if they have an extended period of control and no opportunity (or reason) to get off the ice.

PP1 plays against PK1. Usually much harder opposition. PP2 is dominating the PK2, with your own stats. Explain to me how that indicates we should break up the PP2? Because the PP1 was erratic as hell with minimal production with the players you want to put (back) on it.

Selanne was fumbling pucks and ending possessions on the PP1. The current group isn't doing that. The goal is to win games, not pad Selanne's stats. Having a top 3 PP in the league that actually LOOKS like a top 3 PP says the coaches currently have the right mix. There's no reason to think that the top PP won't start scoring if they continue having the type of offensive zone dominance they've been having. Just like there's no reason to think that the PP efficiency WILL go up by getting Selanne more time on the PP1, or that the PP2 would have the same success it is currently having against the PK1 - that's all conjecture.

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03-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasthnator View Post
I don't have the heart to start going trough the stats.

I'm sure if it continues we will see a some kind of change.
You don't need to go through the stats because such team doesn't exist.

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03-04-2013, 04:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
No, you're just misusing them. You're stat-wise enough to know that. If you actually watch the games, you know that the PP 1 comes off the ice right about 1 minute in. There's even plenty of *****ing about it in old threads when Selanne was on the PP 1 because people thought they should get MORE than half the time. The only reason they stay on is if they have an extended period of control and no opportunity (or reason) to get off the ice.

PP1 plays against PK1. Usually much harder opposition. PP2 is dominating the PK2, with your own stats. Explain to me how that indicates we should break up the PP2? Because the PP1 was erratic as hell with minimal production with the players you want to put (back) on it.

Selanne was fumbling pucks and ending possessions on the PP1. The current group isn't doing that. The goal is to win games, not pad Selanne's stats. Having a top 3 PP in the league that actually LOOKS like a top 3 PP says the coaches currently have the right mix. There's no reason to think that the top PP won't start scoring if they continue having the type of offensive zone dominance they've been having. Just like there's no reason to think that the PP efficiency WILL go up by getting Selanne more time on the PP1, or that the PP2 would have the same success it is currently having against the PK1 - that's all conjecture.
The point is that PP2 should get more ice time and most of all Selanne. I'll go through the PP's of the last 5 games tomorrow since NHL isn't providing me with detailed statistics.

Then there's the fact that we both have seen with our own eyes that at the end of periods or at the start of periods(when there's little PP time left) BB doesn't replace either Beleskey or Bonino with Selanne on the PP1. Can we agree that replacing either of them with Selanne would give the Ducks a higher chance to score? That also shows that PP1 higher ice time isn't just about possession, they end the period and start the period on the ice.

edit. Selanne doesn't get ice time with OT PPs either. They did manage to score the winner without him on the ice against COL though and that made me realize that I had an error in my stats.

last 5 games:

PP1 needs 7:40 to score
PP2 needs 1:47 to score


I gave the Perry PPG for PP1 while it was Perry-Getzlaf-Fowler-Beauchemin OT PP. Really can't use that goal for the favor of PP1 since the whole point is Selanne vs Bonino/Beleskey/Palmieri.


Last edited by jepjepjoo: 03-04-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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03-04-2013, 04:12 PM
  #37
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I'd complain if we were 30th in the league on the power play, but seeing as the opposite is true, who cares?

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03-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I'd complain if we were 30th in the league on the power play, but seeing as the opposite is true, who cares?
complacency is a road to failure.

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03-04-2013, 04:20 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
The point is that PP2 should get more ice time and most of all Selanne. I'll go through the PP's of the last 5 games tomorrow since NHL isn't providing me with detailed statistics.

Then there's the fact that we both have seen with our own eyes that at the end of periods or at the start of periods(when there's little PP time left) BB doesn't replace either Beleskey or Bonino with Selanne on the PP1. Can we agree that replacing either of them with Selanne would give the Ducks a higher chance to score? That also shows that PP1 higher ice time isn't just about possession, they end the period and start the period on the ice.

edit. Selanne doesn't get ice time with OT PPs either. They did manage to score the winner without him on the ice against COL though and that made me realize that I had an error in my stats.

last 5 games:

PP1 needs 7:40 to score
PP2 needs 1:47 to score


I gave the Perry PPG for PP1 while it was Perry-Getzlaf-Fowler-Beauchemin OT PP. Really can't use that goal for the favor of PP1 since the whole point is Selanne vs Bonino/Beleskey/Palmieri.
Yea... no. How about we keep going with what's working? The 1st PP unit has absolutely dominated in terms of possession and chances. They could have had a number of goals the past couple of games, and there is zero reason to change that.

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03-04-2013, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
complacency is a road to failure.
Maxims are the detours from wisdom.

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03-04-2013, 04:22 PM
  #41
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complacency is a road to failure.
We're talking about a PP unit that is tops in the league right now. When it's working, you stick with it.

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03-04-2013, 04:24 PM
  #42
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jepjep, would you even be saying anything if it was Selanne on the top unit, instead of someone else? Somehow I doubt it.

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03-04-2013, 04:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Yea... no. How about we keep going with what's working? The 1st PP unit has absolutely dominated in terms of possession and chances. They could have had a number of goals the past couple of games, and there is zero reason to change that.
Sure the current combination could have had a couple of goals in the past couple games. Selanne-Getzlaf-Perry have scored a multitude of goals the past 5 seasons.

This all started last season when BB started playing Selanne on the right side.

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03-04-2013, 04:25 PM
  #44
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jepjep, would you even be saying anything if it was Selanne on the top unit, instead of someone else? Somehow I doubt it.
I'm arguing for Selanne so you are pretty much stating the obvious there. Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.

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03-04-2013, 04:26 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Sure the current combination could have had a couple of goals in the past couple games. Selanne-Getzlaf-Perry have scored a multitude of goals the past 5 seasons.

This all started last season when BB started playing Selanne on the right side.
And earlier in the season, when Selanne, Getzlaf, and Perry were together on the PP it was struggling.

It's working now. Deal with it.

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03-04-2013, 04:27 PM
  #46
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I'm arguing for Selanne so you are pretty much stating the obvious there.
Yes, I am, but the obvious in this case is that both of our PP units have looked good. Maybe you should consider that the team is more important than Selanne.

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03-04-2013, 04:31 PM
  #47
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Yes, I am, but the obvious in this case is that both of our PP units have looked good. Maybe you should consider that the team is more important than Selanne.
Both of them have looked good and the other is doing the scoring and the other is "dominating" with no results and still getting 2/3 of the ice time. That's the problem. Ice time.

Time on ice.
TOI

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03-04-2013, 04:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Both of them have looked good and the other is doing the scoring and the other is "dominating" with no results and still getting 2/3 of the ice time. That's the problem. Ice time.

Time on ice.
TOI
The 1st PP unit is facing the opposition's 1st PK unit, and Boudreau knows the goals are going to come. All you care about is Selanne. Boudreau cares about the team.

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03-04-2013, 04:35 PM
  #49
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And earlier in the season, when Selanne, Getzlaf, and Perry were together on the PP it was struggling.

It's working now. Deal with it.
Might have had something to do with Perry and Getzlaf struggling early in the season. Getzlaf has been on fire lately and Perry is playing ok now.

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03-04-2013, 04:39 PM
  #50
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Might have had something to do with Perry and Getzlaf struggling early in the season. Getzlaf has been on fire lately and Perry is playing ok now.
And if Boudreau felt the 1st PP unit needed Selanne, he'd be on it. Right now he's got two PP units that can do the job.

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