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Old
03-04-2013, 02:03 PM
  #151
theaub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
I don't necessarily think that points is a good way to judge how valuable a player is over 22 games. It's ridiculous to think that we can look at Kane's point total & Toews' and make judgment based on that. Too much variability in looking at points over so few games. At least look at even-strength points, where they are much closer (17 to 14). Kane still with the edge. But you're still ignoring defense/PK/faceoffs.

Toews is the only above-average player taking regular faceoffs on this team. That is incredibly important. A defensive zone draw won can directly prevent the opposing team a scoring opportunity and an offensive zone draw can directly lead to scoring chance. If Toews wins a draw and the Hawks score on a tip or rebound goal or something....who was really more "valuable" in creating that goal? The guy who picked up the garbage goal or deflected the puck? Or the guy who won the draw?
And Kane is the only player who can actually take the puck into the zone on the PP and set it up on the halfboards without panicking like an AHL'er. If we're going to just completely discount PP points (which last I checked are a pretty important part of the game), then you may as well discount faceoffs or defensive hockey or whatever as well.

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03-04-2013, 02:10 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
I don't necessarily think that points is a good way to judge how valuable a player is over 22 games. It's ridiculous to think that we can look at Kane's point total & Toews' and make judgment based on that. Too much variability in looking at points over so few games. At least look at even-strength points, where they are much closer (17 to 14). Kane still with the edge. But you're still ignoring defense/PK/faceoffs.

Toews is the only above-average player taking regular faceoffs on this team. That is incredibly important. A defensive zone draw won can directly prevent the opposing team a scoring opportunity and an offensive zone draw can directly lead to scoring chance. If Toews wins a draw and the Hawks score on a tip or rebound goal or something....who was really more "valuable" in creating that goal? The guy who picked up the garbage goal or deflected the puck? Or the guy who won the draw?
I would love to sell you a house - it would have new hardwood floors, gigantic walk in closets, a beautiful kitchen with stainless steel appliances. Yes, it may be floating, upside down in the middle of the Pacific ocean but if you ignore that, it's a steal.

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03-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #153
Pepe Silvia
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You people are ignant. Faceoffs win championships

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Old
03-04-2013, 02:17 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by nds90 View Post
You people are ignant. Faceoffs win championships

Ignant

The ignorant way of saying ignorant

"Your ignant"
"You're uneducated."

Not nice.

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03-04-2013, 02:17 PM
  #155
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I personally donít think thereís a comparison on the team to what Toews brings every night, while Kane is pretty to watch and is no doubt the offensive leader. And letís not forget Hossa. Why bother debating who is the most valuable to the team when all three bring a helluva lot to the table; defensively and as two-way players, Toews and Hossa are two of the best in the league. And while weíre at it, we canít overlook our goaltending. Both goalies have been stars in pretty much every game this season.

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03-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I personally donít think thereís a comparison on the team to what Toews brings every night, while Kane is pretty to watch and is no doubt the offensive leader. And letís not forget Hossa. Why bother debating who is the most valuable to the team when all three bring a helluva lot to the table; defensively and as two-way players, Toews and Hossa are two of the best in the league. And while weíre at it, we canít overlook our goaltending. Both goalies have been stars in pretty much every game this season.
Pfft, none of them are as good as anybody on the Bruins anyway.

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03-04-2013, 02:23 PM
  #157
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Zdeno Chara even semi-won a faceoff last night.

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03-04-2013, 02:26 PM
  #158
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A point is a point but a won faceoff can be anything! It can even be a point!

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03-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
I personally donít think thereís a comparison on the team to what Toews brings every night, while Kane is pretty to watch and is no doubt the offensive leader. And letís not forget Hossa. Why bother debating who is the most valuable to the team when all three bring a helluva lot to the table; defensively and as two-way players, Toews and Hossa are two of the best in the league. And while weíre at it, we canít overlook our goaltending. Both goalies have been stars in pretty much every game this season.
Totally agree. If we are talking about only what has happened this season, then Crawford/Emery duo have been more important in keeping this streak alive than any one player, without a doubt.

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03-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Ignant

The ignorant way of saying ignorant

"Your ignant"
"You're uneducated."

Not nice.


Last edited by Sevanston: 03-04-2013 at 02:55 PM. Reason: fix the YT
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03-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Totally agree. If we are talking about only what has happened this season, then Crawford/Emery duo have been more important in keeping this streak alive than any one player, without a doubt.
How many faceoffs have Crawford and Emery won this year?

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03-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
How many faceoffs have Crawford and Emery won this year?
About as many as Bolland..


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03-04-2013, 03:30 PM
  #163
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A team can win a game without winning a faceoff. A team can never win a game without at least 1 player having a point. No, 1-0 wins via the shootout don't really count.

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:36 PM
  #164
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A team can win a game without winning a faceoff. A team can never win a game without at least 1 player having a point. No, 1-0 wins via the shootout don't really count.
Really? This is absurd. And incorrect, because a team could win a 0-0 game in the shootout.

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03-04-2013, 03:44 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by theaub View Post
And Kane is the only player who can actually take the puck into the zone on the PP and set it up on the halfboards without panicking like an AHL'er. If we're going to just completely discount PP points (which last I checked are a pretty important part of the game), then you may as well discount faceoffs or defensive hockey or whatever as well.
Leddy's probably the best player on the team at gaining zone entry on the PP without losing the puck. Stalberg's also very good, but he doesn't get much in the way of PP time.

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03-04-2013, 03:48 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by theaub View Post
And Kane is the only player who can actually take the puck into the zone on the PP and set it up on the halfboards without panicking like an AHL'er. If we're going to just completely discount PP points (which last I checked are a pretty important part of the game), then you may as well discount faceoffs or defensive hockey or whatever as well.
True, if there is one complaint I have about Kane lately is him trying to stick handle through three guys and giving up the puck near the blue line. He doesn't do it as often on the PP but quite a bit during 5 on 5. Sometimes he just needs to dump it. It's small and everything else he's doing overshadows it.

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03-04-2013, 03:49 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by zac View Post
Leddy's probably the best player on the team at gaining zone entry on the PP without losing the puck. Stalberg's also very good, but he doesn't get much in the way of PP time.
No, that would be Kane easily.

Leddy passes off 9 times out of 10. Then, the one time he does bring it in the zone, he catches the other team off-guard because they expected him to pass off.

Not trying to slight Leddy.. but it's so easily Kane.

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03-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
True, if there is one complaint I have about Kane lately is him trying to stick handle through three guys and giving up the puck near the blue line. He doesn't do it as often on the PP but quite a bit during 5 on 5. Sometimes he just needs to dump it. It's small and everything else he's doing overshadows it.
That has been my biggest complaint with him this year. It is something we might have to live with as that line is not much of a forechecking line in order to get the puck. Teams are adjusting how they play him and he will also have to adjust....as well as his line mates.

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03-04-2013, 03:54 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
True, if there is one complaint I have about Kane lately is him trying to stick handle through three guys and giving up the puck near the blue line. He doesn't do it as often on the PP but quite a bit during 5 on 5. Sometimes he just needs to dump it. It's small and everything else he's doing overshadows it.
when they try dumping the puck in 1 of 3 things happens:
~They get beat to it
~kruger gets there and loses the puck on the boards
~sharp gets there and loses puck

Except for the third line, this team is terrible at retrieving dump ins

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03-04-2013, 03:59 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
when they try dumping the puck in 1 of 3 things happens:
~They get beat to it
~kruger gets there and loses the puck on the boards
~sharp gets there and loses puck

Except for the third line, this team is terrible at retrieving dump ins
Then he might as well dump it or shoot it from where ever he's at. Make them go the entire ice. I've seen him get stuck out there on changes due to this.

2nd line needs something. I have to say since Bolland has been out I have not noticed Kruger do much of anything other than PK.

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03-04-2013, 04:18 PM
  #171
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Then he might as well dump it or shoot it from where ever he's at. Make them go the entire ice. I've seen him get stuck out there on changes due to this.

2nd line needs something. I have to say since Bolland has been out I have not noticed Kruger do much of anything other than PK.
bolland wasn't doing much either.

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03-04-2013, 05:30 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
Leddy's probably the best player on the team at gaining zone entry on the PP without losing the puck. Stalberg's also very good, but he doesn't get much in the way of PP time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
No, that would be Kane easily.

Leddy passes off 9 times out of 10. Then, the one time he does bring it in the zone, he catches the other team off-guard because they expected him to pass off.

Not trying to slight Leddy.. but it's so easily Kane.
Leddy does gain entry a ton on the PP, but once he gets there its always a quick pass or something because he runs out of room. Kane gets in the zone, stops, avoids all the pressure and lets everyone catch up so they can set up and start the (albeit useless) cycling.

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03-04-2013, 05:54 PM
  #173
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
Really? This is absurd. And incorrect, because a team could win a 0-0 game in the shootout.
Read the last sentence. 1-0 shootout wins are so rare (and let's be honest, they're incredibly stupid too) that they shouldn't even be considered.

I wasn't aware it was "absurd" to suggest that goals and assists play a much more important role in the game of hockey than faceoff wins.
Apparently that's reaching, though! I am ridiculous.

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03-04-2013, 06:00 PM
  #174
massivegoonery
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Read the last sentence. 1-0 shootout wins are so rare (and let's be honest, they're incredibly stupid too) that they shouldn't even be considered.

Apparently that's reaching, though! I must just be being ridiculous.
By Bron's reasoning, the less frequently events occur, the more they should count. Just like Toews should be considered a better player than Kane this year because he theoretically could have won an offensive zone faceoff that would lead to players other than himself getting a point.

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03-04-2013, 06:27 PM
  #175
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bolland wasn't doing much either.
Not my point, being on the 2nd line is hurting Kruger's effectiveness a bit right now.

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