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Pavel Datsyuk vs. Pavel Bure

View Poll Results: Prime Bure vs. Prime Datsyuk
Pavel Bure 45 48.39%
Pavel Datsyuk 48 51.61%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #51
Sadekuuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
There are some great goals in there that rival what Datsyuk can do, all while at a higher speed.
I always did marvel at his ability to handle the puck so well at top speed. I've never seen another player who could quite do it the way Bure did.

Datsyuk, though, is just so good at so many facets of the game.

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Old
03-04-2013, 09:18 PM
  #52
Cursed Lemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
I have, producing shifts from three randomly-selected games and finding an abundance of moments when Bure backchecks well and ends the opposing team's scoring chances. I've provided testimony from fan discussions during his playing days. The fact that this all comes from three games I had not yet watched before editing tells me how easy it is to find him playing well in his own end. You can easily review the way he plays defensively by watching this:



I would be delighted to produce another footage package for everyone to assess. I had previously planned to do a Sergei Fedorov package, but this is one issue that won't go away.



To claim Bure could not do either of these is very debatable. In fact, the first bolded sentence is part of what defined Bure. As soon as he picked up the puck, anything could happen. Crowds were brought to their feet because they knew some sort of offensive chance was going to be produced from what seemed like a routine moment.



2:10:

"[He] just made things happen where you didn't think anything could happen."

The words of Trevor Linden. And then you see Bure split Raymond Bourque and his D partner in that clip. After that, you see Bure make all sorts of moves on the opposing defense resulting in goals while the interviewees talk about how he could make the opposing defense look like complete fools. In fact, the whole clip attests to his tremendous skill and puckhandling ability. There are some great goals in there that rival what Datsyuk can do, all while at a higher speed. I'd recommend watching the entire clip.
Note one thing - 95% of Bure's impressive plays were built around his speed.

Now consider the fact that Datsyuk creates hockey magic often while standing still.

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Old
03-04-2013, 09:21 PM
  #53
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I think the comparison is fair because Pavel is both their names and they are both russian

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Old
03-05-2013, 02:35 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
I have, producing shifts from three randomly-selected games and finding an abundance of moments when Bure backchecks well and ends the opposing team's scoring chances. I've provided testimony from fan discussions during his playing days. The fact that this all comes from three games I had not yet watched before editing tells me how easy it is to find him playing well in his own end. You can easily review the way he plays defensively by watching this:



I would be delighted to produce another footage package for everyone to assess. I had previously planned to do a Sergei Fedorov package, but this is one issue that won't go away.



To claim Bure could not do either of these is very debatable. In fact, the first bolded sentence is part of what defined Bure. As soon as he picked up the puck, anything could happen. Crowds were brought to their feet because they knew some sort of offensive chance was going to be produced from what seemed like a routine moment.



2:10:

"[He] just made things happen where you didn't think anything could happen."

The words of Trevor Linden. And then you see Bure split Raymond Bourque and his D partner in that clip. After that, you see Bure make all sorts of moves on the opposing defense resulting in goals while the interviewees talk about how he could make the opposing defense look like complete fools. In fact, the whole clip attests to his tremendous skill and puckhandling ability. There are some great goals in there that rival what Datsyuk can do, all while at a higher speed. I'd recommend watching the entire clip.
Did you make those Lost Shift things? Even though I disagree with you and these clips don't change my mind, I really like the concept of these compilations, nice to see some plays beyond the usual youtube highlight goals.

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Old
03-05-2013, 08:44 AM
  #55
JetsAlternate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
Did you make those Lost Shift things? Even though I disagree with you and these clips don't change my mind, I really like the concept of these compilations, nice to see some plays beyond the usual youtube highlight goals.
I did indeed. I intend to feature some of the NHL's greatest players from past generations in this series, including Sergei Fedorov, an early Teemu Selanne, a young Jaromir Jagr, Alex Kovalev, Paul Kariya, amongst others. I'm aiming for an April release date for the next few. The objective is to make easily accessible footage that people otherwise wouldn't look at; also, it is to allow fans to assess players more accurately based on their performances and how they play, taking into account information about those players that would otherwise be lost, forgotten, or distorted over time.

Every time I put one of these together, I choose randomly from a collection of games over the course of a few seasons to ensure the result provides the most well-rounded look at that player's game. I've completed one for Alexander Mogilny already. The great debate about Pavel Bure, however, has required me to provide a more in-depth look at his game to make viewers aware that the more recent assumptions about him just aren't accurate.

I'd also like to make the videos entertaining for hockey fans, and providing a different kind of presentation for people to watch is something I am quite enthusiastic about. It's fun to see some of the greatest players again and to get a sense of the intricacies in their game and their styles of play; thus, my aim is to make these videos both entertaining and educational.

I'm not sure why the evidence I have provided has not swayed your opinion, considering his NHL peers have talked about his skill, spectators at the time had discussed his defensive reliability, and his actual on-ice play as we see in the footage supports everything I've talked about thus far. His on-ice play is the very thing we've been discussing; I'm not sure how one can dispute randomly-selected recordings of his on-ice play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Note one thing - 95% of Bure's impressive plays were built around his speed.

Now consider the fact that Datsyuk creates hockey magic often while standing still.
Fair point. It is remarkable, however, how well Bure could handle the puck and make all sorts of moves at top speed. He was arguably the best at handling the puck at full speed. One has to wonder which is more impressive and which is the more difficult task. They're both incredible in their own way. Datsyuk can make things happen without any sort of skating momentum. Bure could make things happen skating at blinding speeds when most others wouldn't be able to handle the puck at all. They're both phenomenal, and I think it'd only be fair to consider them equal in that regard.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 03-05-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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Old
03-05-2013, 08:56 AM
  #56
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Both my favourite players, can't decide.

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03-05-2013, 09:27 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Note one thing - 95% of Bure's impressive plays were built around his speed.

Now consider the fact that Datsyuk creates hockey magic often while standing still.

but then also consider that bure can hit an almost undefendable speed from standing still in an instant. witness the famous NJ goal starting at 2:57 of this video:


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03-05-2013, 09:51 AM
  #58
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Pavel Bure. Datsyuk's defensive game is really good but Bure's prime goal scoring was excellent.

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03-05-2013, 11:36 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsAlternate View Post
Fair point. It is remarkable, however, how well Bure could handle the puck and make all sorts of moves at top speed. He was arguably the best at handling the puck at full speed. One has to wonder which is more impressive and which is the more difficult task. They're both incredible in their own way. Datsyuk can make things happen without any sort of skating momentum. Bure could make things happen skating at blinding speeds when most others wouldn't be able to handle the puck at all. They're both phenomenal, and I think it'd only be fair to consider them equal in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
but then also consider that bure can hit an almost undefendable speed from standing still in an instant. witness the famous NJ goal starting at 2:57 of this video:

What I'm saying is not meant to discredit Pavel Bure in the slightest. The guy was quite possibly the most excitingly raw player to have ever played the game, and he gets a bad rap for being one-dimensional when this is not the case at all.

But the thread here is "Bure vs. Datsyuk," which I think is fairly clear in asking us to decide which of the two is the better player. Bure's claim to fame is his blinding speed - I think we can all agree that were Bure merely fast instead of "did anyone get the number of that truck" fast. he would've been a far less potent goal scorer.

Consider that Datsyuk has the ability to do exactly that sort of thing. Perhaps not quite at the same speed, but he has a reputation for burning people nonetheless.







My point is that while Bure will beat Datsyuk in a foot race, Datsyuk's skill set completely overshadows Bure in every conceivable category of what can be claimed as a "skill". I mean, that doesn't say much for Bure - Datsyuk has the same overall dominance over almost every player in the league.

In a vacuum, which player would you pick to be on your team?

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Old
04-18-2013, 12:51 PM
  #60
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I never like to make any cross-generational comparisons, as there are too many variables that make getting a clear indication of who is a better player difficult.

Even in today's game, deciding who the best player in the world is isn't easy as player's fill roles on their team.
ex) Crosby has better finishing ability and his overall point getting abilities are better than Datsyuk.
But Datsyuk contributes defensively, and creates a lot more space for his teammates to work with.

But now that we're on the topic of Pavel BURE and Pavel DATSYUK, check out this video which features BURE doing the DATSYUK move! He did it first!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGvmEFHWu1c

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04-18-2013, 01:27 PM
  #61
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I gotta say the Russian Rocket, Pavel Bure. Datsyuk, played on more talented teams which always helps because I believe higher caliber players make you better. Bure had a much bigger impact on the league then Datsyuk.

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04-18-2013, 01:29 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukianVideos View Post
I never like to make any cross-generational comparisons, as there are too many variables that make getting a clear indication of who is a better player difficult.

Even in today's game, deciding who the best player in the world is isn't easy as player's fill roles on their team.
ex) Crosby has better finishing ability and his overall point getting abilities are better than Datsyuk.
But Datsyuk contributes defensively, and creates a lot more space for his teammates to work with.

But now that we're on the topic of Pavel BURE and Pavel DATSYUK, check out this video which features BURE doing the DATSYUK move! He did it first!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGvmEFHWu1c

Crosby is better then Datysuk. Crosby creates more space for his team mates that's a big reason why Crosby leads league in pts with so many assists. Datsyuk may be better defensively.

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