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Has Adam Oates Been Fired Yet????

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:54 PM
  #76
Mystlyfe
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Interesting blurb from Alzner on Oates.
Quote:
"Heís very technical. Iíve played for some technical guys, but he is very, very technical -- all the way from the lie of your blade to a foot difference in positioning on the ice."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...d=nhl:topheads

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03-04-2013, 06:18 PM
  #77
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Resurrecting this thread to say that I really like what Oates is doing. And with respect to Ovie, I have a theory. The move to RW is about the position and how it's different from LW, but I think it's more than that. I think it's a strategy to begin to teach Ovie to be a better player. Once he knows he's learning something different, you can insert all sorts of information without beating the "change your game" drum.

In the article from before the season when Brett Hull was raving about how Oates "gets" elite players (sorry, no link) Hull mentioned that Oates gets the ego and knows how to manage the personalities.

Was just watching Oates's presser from today and he almost said as much. Very impressed with this approach. We can all criticize Ovie and say "Crosby got better; why won't Alex?" But it's moot. Who knows why, and who cares? If Oates can help him transition as a player, that's what matters.

http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/vid...4-13/index.jsp

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03-04-2013, 07:41 PM
  #78
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i found it interesting that Ovi wanted to move back to LW, and Oates let him. Only, Oates played him with grinders. Everyone jumped off a bridge and decided our only scoring winger must have been demoted.

Oates supported his me me me game at LW. He flies in and shoots before anyone can join the play. Why waste top assets on that line if thats what Ovi wanted to do?

Of course it failed fans freaked out and swore it was a demotion to the bitter end. Oates let him stew in it for a few games to get his point across, and then moved him back to RW with Ribs. I think he is back to ~5 shots / game since then.

Oates is a cerebral dude few here know what is going on. Thanks for that great post CCF.

I still laugh at everyone that said it was a demotion. Like he would demote Ovi 3 games into the year; all in a new system, with a position change, and an invisible linemate, or... more like 2

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03-04-2013, 07:55 PM
  #79
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californiacapsfan is not CCF.

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03-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #80
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californiacapsfan is not CCF.
I'm not? Who am I then?

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03-04-2013, 11:34 PM
  #81
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I'm not? Who am I then?
californiacapsfan obviously.

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03-04-2013, 11:46 PM
  #82
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californiacapsfan obviously.

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03-05-2013, 12:00 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
i found it interesting that Ovi wanted to move back to LW, and Oates let him. Only, Oates played him with grinders. Everyone jumped off a bridge and decided our only scoring winger must have been demoted.

Oates supported his me me me game at LW. He flies in and shoots before anyone can join the play. Why waste top assets on that line if thats what Ovi wanted to do?

Of course it failed fans freaked out and swore it was a demotion to the bitter end. Oates let him stew in it for a few games to get his point across, and then moved him back to RW with Ribs. I think he is back to ~5 shots / game since then.


Oates is a cerebral dude few here know what is going on. Thanks for that great post CCF.

I still laugh at everyone that said it was a demotion. Like he would demote Ovi 3 games into the year; all in a new system, with a position change, and an invisible linemate, or... more like 2
The problem is that when Ovi played with grinders nobody could give him a good breakout pass. None of our defensemen are great passers, not even Green. I'd say Orlov might be the best passer on our blue line. Ovi would spend most shifts skating around, waiting for the puck, and when he did get it, he would usually end up 1v2 defensmen.

I still don't see the advantage of playing Ovi on the right. He never had a problem gaining the zone at LW. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, all but one of his goals came from the left. At RW he doesn't have much net to shoot at, and he kind of sucks on the power moves. I can't remember the last time he scored on a backhand after a net drive from RW.

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03-05-2013, 12:13 AM
  #84
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I think it's a fair assumption that Oates gets the ego because he was the ego in his playing career. I'm willing to try anything at this point to jump start Ovechkin. Maybe Oates will be the HOF Svengali that Ovechkin needs. I hope they win enough so he doesn't get fired before we find out.

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03-05-2013, 12:16 AM
  #85
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Not sure there's an advantage of Ovy on RW, more like changing it up to see if it sparks him.

Maybe give the D and goalies a different look.

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03-05-2013, 12:17 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
The problem is that when Ovi played with grinders nobody could give him a good breakout pass. None of our defensemen are great passers, not even Green. I'd say Orlov might be the best passer on our blue line. Ovi would spend most shifts skating around, waiting for the puck, and when he did get it, he would usually end up 1v2 defensmen.

I still don't see the advantage of playing Ovi on the right. He never had a problem gaining the zone at LW. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, all but one of his goals came from the left. At RW he doesn't have much net to shoot at, and he kind of sucks on the power moves. I can't remember the last time he scored on a backhand after a net drive from RW.
I really think it's less about playing him on the right and more about breaking habits, gaining perspective, and changing behavior. It's a vehicle for teaching other skills and strategies and for helping Ovie understand what else beside following his natural instincts he needs to do to be successful.

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03-05-2013, 12:19 AM
  #87
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I think we've officially entered the "by hook or by crook" phase of reversing Ovie's neanderthal tendencies.

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03-05-2013, 04:57 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bananas View Post
I think we've officially entered the "by hook or by crook" phase of reversing Ovie's neanderthal tendencies.

That's a good way of putting it. Watch other current and past stars and what's the difference between them and Ovechkin? Even the best generally used their skill to as a tool as they adapted to the flow of the game and anticipated what would happen. Gretzky was especially good at this. Crosby and Malkin are textbook modern cases. They make the right plays for the situation, and their advanced skills give them more options and better execution.

But what does Ovechkin do? The opposite. He tries to bend the game to his simplified skills. He seems to hardly notice the other players on the ice, or if he does they're either "someone who pass to me" or "someone to skate around".

Eventually the league adapts, since most players are cut from the "take what the game gives you and make the right play" mold but with lesser talents, yet that is enough to eventually stop an Ovechkin from just running roughshod over everyone with the same handful of plays and moves.

This is why many people think he isn't smart. It's not that he's stupid, it's that he's stubborn, and probably a bit proud or arrogant. What worked before should keep working, in his mind. It's what got him this far. Why should he change when he's proven to himself he can dominate by imposing his will?

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03-05-2013, 12:41 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
That's a good way of putting it. Watch other current and past stars and what's the difference between them and Ovechkin? Even the best generally used their skill to as a tool as they adapted to the flow of the game and anticipated what would happen. Gretzky was especially good at this. Crosby and Malkin are textbook modern cases. They make the right plays for the situation, and their advanced skills give them more options and better execution.

But what does Ovechkin do? The opposite. He tries to bend the game to his simplified skills. He seems to hardly notice the other players on the ice, or if he does they're either "someone who pass to me" or "someone to skate around".

Eventually the league adapts, since most players are cut from the "take what the game gives you and make the right play" mold but with lesser talents, yet that is enough to eventually stop an Ovechkin from just running roughshod over everyone with the same handful of plays and moves.

This is why many people think he isn't smart. It's not that he's stupid, it's that he's stubborn, and probably a bit proud or arrogant. What worked before should keep working, in his mind. It's what got him this far. Why should he change when he's proven to himself he can dominate by imposing his will?


Russian machine never breaks. Apparently it can't pull off a simple change of direction either.

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03-05-2013, 02:38 PM
  #90
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He doesn't impose his will anymore... He used to be a force of nature because he played with a chip on his shoulder, like he had something to prove every play. He's washed up now...

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03-05-2013, 04:09 PM
  #91
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I don't dislike much that Oates is doing, except for this dumb handedness thing.

It's going to be increasingly infuriating as his tenure lengthens, I'm guessing.

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03-05-2013, 04:12 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I don't dislike much that Oates is doing, except for this dumb handedness thing.

It's going to be increasingly infuriating as his tenure lengthens, I'm guessing.
Only if it A) doesn't work or B) isn't supported with smart moves by GMGM (the more likely option, I think)

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03-05-2013, 04:22 PM
  #93
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Sure, it could work. But there are literally hundreds of examples of teams who didn't give two ***** about the handedness thing and excelled.

I can see it now: Orlov will be forced to play LD, where he isn't as comfortable, and struggle to adapt. He'll be dealt because of it and go on to be a stud top-4 defenseman on another team that lets him play on the right.

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03-05-2013, 04:24 PM
  #94
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Sure, it could work. But there are literally hundreds of examples of teams who didn't give two ***** about the handedness thing and excelled.

I can see it now: Orlov will be forced to play LD, where he isn't as comfortable, and struggle to adapt. He'll be dealt because of it and go on to be a stud top-4 defenseman on another team that lets him play on the right.
Sorry, stupid post. Ignore.

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03-05-2013, 05:34 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Sure, it could work. But there are literally hundreds of examples of teams who didn't give two ***** about the handedness thing and excelled.

I can see it now: Orlov will be forced to play LD, where he isn't as comfortable, and struggle to adapt. He'll be dealt because of it and go on to be a stud top-4 defenseman on another team that lets him play on the right.
I could see this happening but he did switch back to RD before getting injured and is back practicing there. I do wonder if that factor combined with Kundratek's emergence and him not really appearing to be all that motivated in Hershey earlier in the year makes him a potential trade candidate.

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03-05-2013, 05:38 PM
  #96
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I could see this happening but he did switch back to RD before getting injured and is back practicing there. I do wonder if that factor combined with Kundratek's emergence and him not really appearing to be all that motivated in Hershey earlier in the year makes him a potential trade candidate.
Good god I hope not. He's a gamer.

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03-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #97
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Sure, it could work. But there are literally hundreds of examples of teams who didn't give two ***** about the handedness thing and excelled.
My thoughts exactly. I would feel pretty confident that there has never been a cup winning team that had 3 righties and 3 lefties on defense and that is simply because what matters is the skill and abilities of the defensemen, not whether they shoot right or left.

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03-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #98
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I am surprised Bryan Murray, Bruce, and now Oates tow the party line yet don't think there is some advantage to the sticks along the boards theory. This even predated George, who clearly thinks strongly about it.

I would expect they would push back on George if getting that balance means less skilled players in the lineup.

It wouldn't surprise me if Terry Murray and others bought in. I don't remember Dale talking about it but looking at London it may be clear.

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03-06-2013, 12:36 PM
  #99
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Somewhere I read (sorry if it's been posted) that Oates makes an analogy to baseball in regards to the D and wingers. He asked "you never see a left handed shortstop do you"? Maybe not those exact words.

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03-06-2013, 12:38 PM
  #100
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Hockey coaches love to reference baseball. Bruce did it as well. A lot.

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