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2013 NHL Draft Thread II (6/30, 3PM EDT)

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Old
03-04-2013, 07:08 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
Coincidentally-Pit put Boychuk on waivers today. Is he worth a shot?
He couldn't produce on a line with James Neal and Evgeni Malkin, so I don't think we would have much use for him.

I really can't figure out what happened with this guy. I guess sometimes the scoring just doesn't translate!

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03-04-2013, 07:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
Button's new list is up

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Interesting movement A ton of top level talent available into the early 20's.

Drouin jumps over Mackinnon to 2
Mackinnon drops to 3

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03-04-2013, 09:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Drouin jumps over Mackinnon to 2
Mackinnon drops to 3
Still can't see Drouin ahead of MacKinnon.

I have a feeling that people are basing this off of where these players are currently, more than where they will be in 5 years. I really believe that Nathan MacKinnon has something special, and will develop into a very good first line player. Drouin seems like more of a long-shot to me.

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03-04-2013, 09:54 PM
  #79
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TSR Top 60

Here's the latest top-60 from our service:

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/201...-march-top-60/

It's in .pdf format this time around, gives it a much cleaner look. I have to give credit to the guys at the top, they made this thing look excellent.

Enjoy!

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03-04-2013, 09:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Still can't see Drouin ahead of MacKinnon.

I have a feeling that people are basing this off of where these players are currently, more than where they will be in 5 years. I really believe that Nathan MacKinnon has something special, and will develop into a very good first line player. Drouin seems like more of a long-shot to me.
I'll disagree, only because I remember the Tavares/Hedman stuff pretty well. Hedman came into the year ranked around #2 or #3, and there was a lot of talk that he was the most polished defenseman to be drafted since Chris Pronger. That would mean more hype than Doughty the previous year, than Bouwmeester in 2002, than Erik Johnson in 2006, and so on. And if we've heard it once, we've heard it a thousand times this year with Seth Jones. "Scoring forwards, even elite scoring forwards, come along every couple of years. But how many times does a defenseman like this come along?"

Tavares had been the benchmark for three years. The fact that the entire 2007-08 and then 2008-09 years were spent talking about Hedman in a manner like, "He'd be the #1 pick any year except this one" says something.

In the case of Drouin, he didn't come into this year anywhere near as hyped. It was basically MacKinnon and Jones, and personally I wonder if MacKinnon's early hype before last year was due to where he was from. People have a tendency to derive patterns where they are none, and when MacKinnon was 16, all we heard was, "Just like Crosby! A Maritime kid with great offensive skill playing in the Q!" From there, connecting two largely-unrelated dots becomes pretty easy.

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03-04-2013, 10:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I'll disagree, only because I remember the Tavares/Hedman stuff pretty well. Hedman came into the year ranked around #2 or #3, and there was a lot of talk that he was the most polished defenseman to be drafted since Chris Pronger. That would mean more hype than Doughty the previous year, than Bouwmeester in 2002, than Erik Johnson in 2006, and so on. And if we've heard it once, we've heard it a thousand times this year with Seth Jones. "Scoring forwards, even elite scoring forwards, come along every couple of years. But how many times does a defenseman like this come along?"

Tavares had been the benchmark for three years. The fact that the entire 2007-08 and then 2008-09 years were spent talking about Hedman in a manner like, "He'd be the #1 pick any year except this one" says something.

In the case of Drouin, he didn't come into this year anywhere near as hyped. It was basically MacKinnon and Jones, and personally I wonder if MacKinnon's early hype before last year was due to where he was from. People have a tendency to derive patterns where they are none, and when MacKinnon was 16, all we heard was, "Just like Crosby! A Maritime kid with great offensive skill playing in the Q!" From there, connecting two largely-unrelated dots becomes pretty easy.
I can't disagree with anything that you said here, however, would people who would have drafted Matt Duchene or Victor Hedman ahead of John Tavares be happy with their selections at this point. It can be argued that Hedman is progressing into the player that everyone thought he would, but what Tavares has been to the Islanders is far more important.

I won't say that I don't like Drouin, because I'm a big fan of his also. I have him at third on my list personally, ahead of Barkov, because his offensive ceiling is too high to ignore. I just think that MacKinnon's ceiling is a bit higher, and he has more tangible assets overall.

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03-04-2013, 10:49 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
I can't disagree with anything that you said here, however, would people who would have drafted Matt Duchene or Victor Hedman ahead of John Tavares be happy with their selections at this point. It can be argued that Hedman is progressing into the player that everyone thought he would, but what Tavares has been to the Islanders is far more important.

I won't say that I don't like Drouin, because I'm a big fan of his also. I have him at third on my list personally, ahead of Barkov, because his offensive ceiling is too high to ignore. I just think that MacKinnon's ceiling is a bit higher, and he has more tangible assets overall.
As far as I'm concerned, Tavares is one of the top ten forwards in the game and has been for a couple years now. I don't know that I can say the same about Hedman. Then again, it took the aforementioned Chris Pronger how long to even look like he belonged in the NHL, let alone anything more than that. But when he finally broke through...

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03-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #83
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I really think with Mackinnon-Drouin the issue is risk/reward. Drouin's ceiling if all things go perfectly is looking higher than Mackinnons, albeit marginally higher. However, Mackinnon's floor is significantly higher than Drouin's at a more important position. IMO, you still take Mackinnon because while Drouin may have Giroux upside to Mackinnon's Parise, Mackinnon is much more likely to reach his potential, particularly given the current situation on the Jackets.

Also, its nice to see some recognition for Domi. I bet he breaks the top 10 by the draft. (Though I hope he falls a bit so we can grab him)

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03-04-2013, 11:44 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
I really think with Mackinnon-Drouin the issue is risk/reward. Drouin's ceiling if all things go perfectly is looking higher than Mackinnons, albeit marginally higher. However, Mackinnon's floor is significantly higher than Drouin's at a more important position. IMO, you still take Mackinnon because while Drouin may have Giroux upside to Mackinnon's Parise, Mackinnon is much more likely to reach his potential, particularly given the current situation on the Jackets.

Also, its nice to see some recognition for Domi. I bet he breaks the top 10 by the draft. (Though I hope he falls a bit so we can grab him)
I see the risk/reward situation similarly, but I think if Mackinnon goes higher than Drouin the fact that he is a dominant center is even more important. Mackinnon has the combination of speed/strength/smarts to control the whole ice. Thats a much better foundation to build a team around than a dynamic winger, unless the winger is more than 20 points ahead of the center every year (which wouldn't surprise me with these 2).

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03-04-2013, 11:52 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
I really think with Mackinnon-Drouin the issue is risk/reward. Drouin's ceiling if all things go perfectly is looking higher than Mackinnons, albeit marginally higher. However, Mackinnon's floor is significantly higher than Drouin's at a more important position. IMO, you still take Mackinnon because while Drouin may have Giroux upside to Mackinnon's Parise, Mackinnon is much more likely to reach his potential, particularly given the current situation on the Jackets.

Also, its nice to see some recognition for Domi. I bet he breaks the top 10 by the draft. (Though I hope he falls a bit so we can grab him)
I pretty much agree with this.

To have another comparison, Mackinnon = Toews and Drouin = Kane. I'd rather have Toews at this point in the team's build than Kane. Once you get those pillars up you can add a kid like Drouin and expect him to thrive.

Get Murray and Johnson as pillars on the back end. Get Mackinnon, Johansen, Atkinson, and some veterans at forward. Then add a skilled winger like Drouin but not before you have Mackinnon.

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Old
03-05-2013, 12:26 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Here's the latest top-60 from our service:

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/201...-march-top-60/

It's in .pdf format this time around, gives it a much cleaner look. I have to give credit to the guys at the top, they made this thing look excellent.

Enjoy!
Thanks for sharing this. The valuations and thinking behind it I think are pretty smart, not a lot of odd choices. One quibble I'd make, and maybe this is just me, but I'm always hungry for more actual scouting details in the writeups. Take Jones for example how good is he on the breakout, head man passes, on the boards, gap control, etc... Instead there is typical scout filler:

"Seth Jones made headwaves during the Summer of 2012 as the former US U18 Captain deliberated "

I'd still take this over hockeysfuture, so don't take it personally.

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03-05-2013, 08:16 AM
  #87
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Is anyone else shocked by the clown suit Barkov is forced to wear?

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03-05-2013, 08:44 AM
  #88
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Nicolas Petan is +61 in 66 games.

I don't love the +/- stat, but holy cow +61!

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Old
03-05-2013, 09:20 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Is anyone else shocked by the clown suit Barkov is forced to wear?
Never seen european jerseys before?

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03-05-2013, 09:46 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Here's the latest top-60 from our service:

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/201...-march-top-60/

It's in .pdf format this time around, gives it a much cleaner look. I have to give credit to the guys at the top, they made this thing look excellent.

Enjoy!
Looks good. Nice work.

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Old
03-05-2013, 09:59 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Finnpin View Post
Never seen european jerseys before?
Rarely have I seen one as bad as that! The jersey is one thing, but advertising over the whole outfit is a bit overwhelming. I understand the desire for advertising money, but I don't have to like the way it looks. I certainly hope it never happens in the NHL.

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03-05-2013, 10:02 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Is anyone else shocked by the clown suit Barkov is forced to wear?
Just like this guy?


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03-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Just like this guy?

The "Fool" patch is a particularly nice touch!

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03-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #94
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The "Fool" patch is a particularly nice touch!
It's the logo of the team...

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03-05-2013, 12:30 PM
  #95
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It's the logo of the team...
And in perfect keeping with my "clown suit" comment, earlier!

People's tastes and styles differ widely within cultures, let alone among different cultures. No right or wrong, all I'm doing is expressing my own opinion. Personally, I like the Fool logo (Jokirt, perhaps?), just not fond of the whole billboard aspect of Euro uniforms. I feel the same way about auto racing, too, and none of it will change because I disapprove!

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03-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #96
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I pretty much agree with this.

To have another comparison, Mackinnon = Toews and Drouin = Kane. I'd rather have Toews at this point in the team's build than Kane. Once you get those pillars up you can add a kid like Drouin and expect him to thrive.

Get Murray and Johnson as pillars on the back end. Get Mackinnon, Johansen, Atkinson, and some veterans at forward. Then add a skilled winger like Drouin but not before you have Mackinnon.
The skilled winger could also be had in the 1st round this year but not join the CBJ for 2 years allowing the build to take shape.... Nichushkin!

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03-05-2013, 03:44 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
As far as I'm concerned, Tavares is one of the top ten forwards in the game and has been for a couple years now. I don't know that I can say the same about Hedman. Then again, it took the aforementioned Chris Pronger how long to even look like he belonged in the NHL, let alone anything more than that. But when he finally broke through...
And yet Tavares can't get his team over the hump. Which reminds me, how much longer is Wang going to let Snow run that team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch Factor View Post
Nicolas Petan is +61 in 66 games.

I don't love the +/- stat, but holy cow +61!
I'd have serious reservations with Petan. He doesn't strike me as much better than his teammate, Brendan Leipsic, yet he's projected as a first rounder and Leipsic was taken in the third. He was largely invisible until guys like Baertschi left Portland allowing him to play with Leipsic and Rattie more regularly. With guys like Atkinson and Calvert already on the team, I'm not sure I'd want another undersized forward as a key piece of my rebuild.

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03-05-2013, 04:16 PM
  #98
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The obvious answer that needs to be addressed

is if McKinnon is Toews like & Drouin is Kane like.. what would it take to get both of them?

I know that is virtually impossible but March in Columbus is for dreaming.

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03-05-2013, 04:57 PM
  #99
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If Columbus had the #2 pick and Jones went #1, Columbus would have to acquire the #3 pick.

I just don't see any teams parting with the #3 pick for anything other than Ryan Murray who I would be against trading.

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03-05-2013, 05:05 PM
  #100
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Florida is falling apart ( the team and the state around Orlando),Washington is a mess (the Caps & congress) as well as several other teams for which I don't have clever sayings for. I think we might have to start talking about who do you like at #6 or #7. Yikes.

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