HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-05-2013, 02:11 AM
  #1
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 29,937
vCash: 500
NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/sp...pics.html?_r=0

Quote:
The talks hinge on one overarching issue: whether the N.H.L. can extract extra rights and considerations from the I.O.C. and the I.I.H.F. in exchange for suspending business for two weeks at midseason and risking injury to its players.

But the I.O.C. and the I.I.H.F. are believed to be reluctant to grant such concessions. It could set a precedent for other professional leagues that send players to the Olympics to ask for similar deals.
Officials have not disclosed the full list of what the N.H.L. is seeking, but the league is known to want the right to use Olympic video on the NHL Network, NHL.com and other league platforms. The N.H.L. is currently not allowed to use such videos. That means the clip of Sidney Crosby’s gold-medal-winning goal for Canada against the United States at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics has never been shown on an N.H.L. Web site, television show or arena scoreboard.

...

The N.H.L. may also be seeking some form of financial compensation or increased perquisites for participating in the Olympics. René Fasel, the president of the I.I.H.F., said in 2011 that such an arrangement was out of the question.

“The money should not be an issue because the issue is solved,” Fasel said then. “We do not have any money, and it is very easy.”

Fasel is a member of the I.O.C. executive board and president of the group of seven Olympic winter sports federations that receives a large share of revenues from the Winter Olympics. Last month, he and Bettman met in New York for two days with Richard Carrión, the chairman of the I.O.C. finance commission and a member of the I.O.C. marketing and television rights and new media commissions.
Would it really be the end of the world if they received the rights to highlights from Olympics broadcasts?

I think the NHL does want some money, and seeing how huge of a draw men's ice hockey is for the Winter Games-- I don't blame them for trying to get a cut. The risk and cost to NHL teams is not insignificant.

Fugu is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 02:56 AM
  #2
saskganesh
Registered User
 
saskganesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the Annex
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,073
vCash: 500
The NHL does bring a lot to the table, so in the interests of a healthy partnership, I am rather sympathetic.

Now there's also a third party involved: NBC, who holds the NHL contract and the Olympic broadcast rights. So maybe the NHL should hit them up for more money.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 03-05-2013 at 07:14 AM. Reason: response to deleted post
saskganesh is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 03:49 AM
  #3
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,970
vCash: 500
As much as I love seeing NHLers play in the Olympics, I'm completely on the NHL's side in this. Men's ice hockey is the Winters Olympics' biggest moneymaker. Why allow the Olympics to make big money off of NHL players under contract when the NHL isn't even allowed to use footage from those events in marketing?

TheDevilMadeMe is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 06:57 AM
  #4
saskganesh
Registered User
 
saskganesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the Annex
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,073
vCash: 500
Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?

saskganesh is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 08:42 AM
  #5
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.

Crease is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 08:50 AM
  #6
Kane One
HFB Partner
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,189
vCash: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/sp...pics.html?_r=0



Would it really be the end of the world if they received the rights to highlights from Olympics broadcasts?

I think the NHL does want some money, and seeing how huge of a draw men's ice hockey is for the Winter Games-- I don't blame them for trying to get a cut. The risk and cost to NHL teams is not insignificant.
Would it be the end of the world if they were allowed to show highlights? Well, not for the IOC, but I can't see why NBC would be happy paying well over a billion dollars for the rights to the Olympics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
As much as I love seeing NHLers play in the Olympics, I'm completely on the NHL's side in this. Men's ice hockey is the Winters Olympics' biggest moneymaker. Why allow the Olympics to make big money off of NHL players under contract when the NHL isn't even allowed to use footage from those events in marketing?
Yep. I'm 100% on the NHL's side. I think the best move would be to negotiate with NBC over the rights rather than the IOC. How is the IOC supposed to give rights to something that they already sold? Not having NHLers in the Olympics will hurt NBC. Negotiate with them.

__________________
Kane One is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 08:53 AM
  #7
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskganesh View Post
Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?
That's what I've been sort of saying, NBC has US rights, use that footage on NBC. Or if you really must use it online, just put a link to it on your website! For crying out loud, the whole final is freely available on IOC's own Youtube channel(simply called "olympics"), would it really be that hard to put a link to that? Or NBC could make highlights page on their website for US viewers which the NHL could put links to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.
Nope, there's pros outside the NHL more than enough. It's the NHL that needs the IOC, because that is the only time every 4 years that ice hockey/or NHL is globally relevant. No NHL or World Cup game will ever get the kind of ratings the Olympics will.


Last edited by Jussi: 03-05-2013 at 09:30 AM.
Jussi is online now  
Old
03-05-2013, 08:57 AM
  #8
Kane One
HFB Partner
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,189
vCash: 823
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.

Kane One is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:02 AM
  #9
vwg*
Scoring Not Allowed
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Krasnoyarsk
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 19,957
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.
Pretty much this.

Let's see how many people watch Olympic ice hockey if the NHL doesn't allow the players to participate. It'll just be another international tournament no one really gives a damn about.

vwg* is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:08 AM
  #10
agentblack
Registered User
 
agentblack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The NHL cannot currently use any Olympic footage. It's the reason why the highlight of Crosby scoring in OT to clinch the gold medal for Canada has not been shown once on an NHL scoreboard, NHL website, or NHL tv broadcast.

The IOC needs the NHL pros more than the NHL needs the IOC. Both sides know this. It'll be interesting to see what kind of deal they come up with.
They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.

agentblack is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:09 AM
  #11
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant.
Well the same applies to the US. NHL games will never get Olympic level ratings in the US and without Olympic participation, the players will be even less known.

Since people still have misconceptions about the Olympic revenue distribution, here's the link again: http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing...s-distribution

Jussi is online now  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:11 AM
  #12
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentblack View Post
They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.
Other sports leagues would try to do the same and that is a path the IOC won't go on.

Jussi is online now  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:13 AM
  #13
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentblack View Post
They dont actually IMO. Players choose to go the games because of the status of playing at the event and the chance to compete and win gold on an international stage. If a professional or the league they represent make a profit straight from the IOC itself that just sets up a bad precedent in the future.
The players can't just choose to participate. It has to be in conjunction with NHL (the league) approval. The NHL (the league) does not stand to gain much from shortening their revenue-generating operations so that their workforce can participate in games that will be airing on tape delay in North America. The IOC on the other hand, is going to have a hell of a time getting people in the stands and eyeballs on the TV sets if NHL players aren't involved.

The NHL (the league) allowed their workforce to participate in the Vancouver games because they knew it would garner interest from casual sports fans in North America. Time zone is a huge factor here. A hockey game during breakfast time on a weekday is not compelling tv for Joe Schmoe in Wisconsin. Nor is a game on tape delay when the outcome is already water cooler talk.


Last edited by Crease: 03-05-2013 at 09:26 AM.
Crease is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #14
IU Hawks fan
They call me IU
 
IU Hawks fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: No longer IU
Country: United States
Posts: 19,596
vCash: 50
No guys, they can't just USE NBC's footage. That's not how broadcast rights work.

IU Hawks fan is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:18 AM
  #15
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Other sports leagues would try to do the same and that is a path the IOC won't go on.
What leagues shut down their season to participate in the Olympics? I could see the NBA trying to get money or other consideration from the IOC, but it is not played in season so not sure the league could realistically prevent the players from playing.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:18 AM
  #16
Grudy0
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskganesh View Post
Here's my question... couldn't they just get NBC's footage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
That's what I've been sort of saying, NBC has US rights, use that footage on NBC. Or if you really must use it online, just put a link to it on your website! For crying out loud, the whole final is freely available on IOC's own Youtube channel(simply called "olympics"), would it really be that hard to puta link to that? Or NBC could make highlights page on their website for US viewers which the NHL could put links to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
Would it be the end of the world if they were allowed to show highlights? Well, not for the IOC, but I can't see why NBC would be happy paying well over a billion dollars for the rights to the Olympics.

Yep. I'm 100% on the NHL's side. I think the best move would be to negotiate with NBC over the rights rather than the IOC. How is the IOC supposed to give rights to something that they already sold? Not having NHLers in the Olympics will hurt NBC. Negotiate with them.
Copyrights are different...

As the official broadcasting partner, NBC has been given the right to use the highlights in perpetuity. However, everyone else must negotiate for use of "rebroadcasts".

Think about it. It's news. Yet you don't see any Olympic highlights on the 11:00 PM news on a different network because the IOC has retained all rebroadcast rights.

The pro leagues here want their highlights on the news, so there is a "clearinghouse" that allows for rebroadcasts as use of snippets. Because the IOC is worldwide, and because their US broadcasting partner pays so much for the rights to broadcast, they have these barriers. However, because the IOC retains rebroadcast rights, the NHL can't just go to NBC to get the footage; they have to then clear it with the IOC!

It works this way for most leagues, but again, most leagues "clearinghouse" the rights so that snippets are allowed to be shown, just not the IOC.

Grudy0 is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:20 AM
  #17
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Well the same applies to the US. NHL games will never get Olympic level ratings in the US and without Olympic participation, the players will be even less known.

Since people still have misconceptions about the Olympic revenue distribution, here's the link again: http://www.olympic.org/ioc-financing...s-distribution
The Olympics do not really help the NHL. The once every four years fans are not flocking to their local teams after the games are over anymore than fans of the Fab-5 (womens gymnastics) are flocking to their next non-olympic event).

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:22 AM
  #18
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
I think the NHL cares more about if the NHL is nationally relevant than globally relevant. If the Olympics are in Russia in a city that no one here heard of, where games are at 4:00 in the morning, I think don't think there's really much to lose.

I'm pretty sure the top three most watched Olympic Hockey games in the US were in 1980, 2002, and 2010. Those three were in North America.
This is really it. I believe Sochi is 10 hours ahead of the ETZ. So, a game starting at 8pm over there is going to be live here at 10am. People will watch on weekends, but that is about it.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:23 AM
  #19
Chileiceman
Registered User
 
Chileiceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Chile
Posts: 8,628
vCash: 500
I'm with the NHL here. The IOC restrictions on footage are ridiculous

Chileiceman is online now  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:25 AM
  #20
agentblack
Registered User
 
agentblack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,073
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The NHL (the league) does not stand to gain much from shortening their revenue-generating operations so that their workforce can participate in games that will be airing on tape delay in North America. The IOC on the other hand, is going to have a hell of a time getting people in the stands and eyeballs on the TV sets if NHL players aren't involved.

The NHL allowed their workforce to participate in the Vancouver games because they knew it would garner interest from casual sports fans in North America. Time zone is a huge factor here. A hockey game at 4am on a weeknight is not not compelling tv for Joe Schmoe in Wisconsin.
Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.

agentblack is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:28 AM
  #21
Crease
Registered User
 
Crease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentblack View Post
Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.
Not sure where you got that from. I said that the IOC needs the NHL's players more than the NHL needs the IOC. Note I didn't say pros in the second part of that sentence. Never once mentioned anything about players desire here, which by the way is all but moot. The league doesn't need the Sochi games to boost interest in North America. The time zones are too far apart.

Crease is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:34 AM
  #22
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Not sure where you got that from. I said that the IOC needs the NHL's players more than the NHL needs the IOC. Note I didn't say pros in the second part of that sentence. Never once mentioned anything about players desire here, which by the way is all but moot. The league doesn't need the Sochi games to boost interest in North America. The time zones are too far apart.
Can you give evidence of that? From what I recall, the hockey games in Lillehammer and even Albertville were well attended.

Jussi is online now  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:41 AM
  #23
DocBrown
Registered User
 
DocBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,009
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Can you give evidence of that? From what I recall, the hockey games in Lillehammer and even Albertville were well attended.
I can't recall actual ratings/attendance figures for Lillehammer, but I do remember hockey was merely a blip of background noise compared to figure skating due to Tonya Harding etc.

1994 might be a bad year to compare to.

DocBrown is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:43 AM
  #24
Pilky01
@JamesD_TO
 
Pilky01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,176
vCash: 500
I support the NHL 100%.

They give away an incredibly valuable service and receive next to nothing in return.

Pilky01 is offline  
Old
03-05-2013, 09:43 AM
  #25
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentblack View Post
Well we can agree to disagree here, I mean its not like olympic hockey didnt exist before 1998 iifc. And isnt it the NHLPA thats spearheading the involvement in the games? Your comment makes it seem like the scenario from a player is "Oh gee wizz do we have to go id rather stay home." Most, if not all players WANT to go, they dont have to. im not saying that as fact just my sense of things. The league and the owners group im pretty sure would rather not be there.
Pre-92, it was a political thing. The whole capitalism vs communism. Once that ended, the amateurs playing didnt have the same appeal. I watched in 92, because I knew Zubov and Kovalev were Rangers property. In 94, I don't think I watched a single game. 1980 was a different animal. US college players beating a team that had beaten the NHL and had beaten NHL All-star teams. Without NHLers, it might be a college all-star team if the NCAA decides to shut down. Not sure who would play for other teams.

patnyrnyg is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.