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It's shakeup time

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Old
03-05-2013, 08:55 AM
  #26
PredsV82
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Hockey is a funny game.

last year, this exact same team, was one of the top 4 teams in the conference and probably top 6 in the league.

Poile, as he often does, locked up what looked like a really solid roster(except suter of course) for the next couple of years.

and now this same bunch, only one year later, is just plain awful. and no, it isnt just due to Suter...

the problem is, the pieces that need to be moved (Fisher, first and foremost) are signed to contracts no one will want to eat at the level they are currently performing.

As much as I'd like to see some major trades, I think we are stuck.

Might as well dump Clune, Halischuk, Hannan, Gill and Yip to create roster spots for the young guys in Milwaukee to come up for a shakedown cruise, accept the suck, take the hgh draft pick, and then see if ownership has the money and the balls to eat a bad contract or two this summer.

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03-05-2013, 08:56 AM
  #27
darth5
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Right now, this team is an embarrassment.
In all my years of following the team this is the first time I have felt like saying that. With a few exceptions they do not even seem to play with heart. I don't know the answer, but I am sick of the product. Glad I went to bad after the first Kings goal last night. I could sense where the suckage was leading but had no idea it would fall so low. Just sad and angry that a team that prides itself on work ethic would seem so directionless on the ice.

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03-05-2013, 09:14 AM
  #28
triggrman
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Again, it's not just a talent issue, it's a system issue. Different players are going to produce the same result. Coyotes last playoffs showed the NHL how to easily beat the Trotz system and we've yet to adjust.

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03-05-2013, 09:23 AM
  #29
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Also, I've stuck up for SK74 since he's arrived and really been pulling for him. It looks like he has lost his game. I really hate to say it, but it might be time for him to move on.

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03-05-2013, 09:36 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Hockey is a funny game.

last year, this exact same team, was one of the top 4 teams in the conference and probably top 6 in the league.

Poile, as he often does, locked up what looked like a really solid roster(except suter of course) for the next couple of years.

and now this same bunch, only one year later, is just plain awful. and no, it isnt just due to Suter...

the problem is, the pieces that need to be moved (Fisher, first and foremost) are signed to contracts no one will want to eat at the level they are currently performing.

As much as I'd like to see some major trades, I think we are stuck.

Might as well dump Clune, Halischuk, Hannan, Gill and Yip to create roster spots for the young guys in Milwaukee to come up for a shakedown cruise, accept the suck, take the hgh draft pick, and then see if ownership has the money and the balls to eat a bad contract or two this summer.
I was trying to figure what else has changed since last year, and two other things stuck out.

First...the Weber deal. Say what you will about chasing the high contract, but to the other players, your captain and face tried to bolt for another team. Not a great motivational tool.

Also (much more minor), there was SK's comments where he supposedly stated that he wanted to play(or didn't mind to?) in the KHL. Considering how useless he's been, that could also be a factor.

Overall, it's looking like we're going to be sellers at the deadline. Silver lining...This short season is just weird anyway. Never felt right. Kind of like a weird exhibition.

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03-05-2013, 09:39 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Again, it's not just a talent issue, it's a system issue. Different players are going to produce the same result. Coyotes last playoffs showed the NHL how to easily beat the Trotz system and we've yet to adjust.
Tend to agree with this.

Just forecheck like hell and stand up at the line and the Preds will bungle the breakout 9 times out of 10. (this was something Suter could remedy, but, oh well).

Then, when we get into the offensive zone - the guys who have the heart and drive to keep the puck aren't skilled enough to actually keep the puck more than 2 seconds. And the guys who might be skilled enough to do it don't have the grit.

The team doesn't need a total rebuild. The defense corps is solid, and will only get better as the kids progress. The forward corps needs the overhaul.

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03-05-2013, 09:47 AM
  #32
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I agree with a lot of what is here. I think major changes have to be made in both coaching and players. I think both assistant coaches need to go as a minimum.
And with all the players that have been mentioned also.........whatever is practically possible.

And now to the elephant in the room. The weber match may have been , in hindsight , one of the worst things that has happened to us. I wish we could trade him. I think he is horrid as a captain, has no leadership , and is phoning it in physically on the ice. I wonder if he is the quiet cancer in the room.


Oh, and motivationally............this team needs to be booed for 60 minutes at the Bridge. No standing O for this lackluster effort. Unfortunately the crowd loves it...sigh

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03-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
I was trying to figure what else has changed since last year, and two other things stuck out.

First...the Weber deal. Say what you will about chasing the high contract, but to the other players, your captain and face tried to bolt for another team. Not a great motivational tool.

Also (much more minor), there was SK's comments where he supposedly stated that he wanted to play(or didn't mind to?) in the KHL. Considering how useless he's been, that could also be a factor.

Overall, it's looking like we're going to be sellers at the deadline. Silver lining...This short season is just weird anyway. Never felt right. Kind of like a weird exhibition.
I think this is key to SK's play. In October, he publicly stated he didn't want there to be a season, The not being able to make plans and sign a 1 year KHL contract seemed to bother him.

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03-05-2013, 09:57 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Looking back it Poile really messed up thinking Fisher and Legwand could hold down the top 2 center spots on a contending team. We have to upgrade on one of them at least and also bring in a bonafide 1st line PPG guy before this team is a serious contender.
I don't think that was the plan; they've been the bridge to Wilson and potentially Smith. Shortened season kept us from trying Wilson there.

If you look at the Fisher extension, seems Poile's basically thinking Fish's got enough in the tank to go a couple more seasons as a #2C, and Leggy is done next year. Given the Gausted signing, got to believe Poile was thinking Leggy gets one more modest contract after that to play forward on 3rd line and fill in when a top 6 gets dinged.

also, whether we like it or not, we don't really roll a top 6, we roll a top 9 more-or-less (unfortunately we really only have 7 or when we're lucky 8 talented guys to do that with). As folks have analyzed to death over the years, we roll a sub-standard top line or two, but a superior set of bottom lines. This year, our top lines are REALLY sub-standard and our bottom lines (except Smith) aren't really superior.

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03-05-2013, 10:12 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
I was trying to figure what else has changed since last year, and two other things stuck out.

First...the Weber deal. Say what you will about chasing the high contract, but to the other players, your captain and face tried to bolt for another team. Not a great motivational tool.

Also (much more minor), there was SK's comments where he supposedly stated that he wanted to play(or didn't mind to?) in the KHL. Considering how useless he's been, that could also be a factor.

Overall, it's looking like we're going to be sellers at the deadline. Silver lining...This short season is just weird anyway. Never felt right. Kind of like a weird exhibition.
I agree totally about Weber. I will always think that he wanted out because he saw this coming especially with Suter bolting. And yes I know all of that talk about 'he was a RFA so knew that the Preds could match' out there. But come on, do you think that Weber really thought this ownership group had the money to match the offer? He thought he was going to be a Flyer. But for good or bad, ownership broke open their collective piggy banks and came up with the money. Don't be shocked if we get rumblings after the season of Weber asking for a trade.

We shall see.

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03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #36
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I don't want Trotz system here anymore, but if he stays, I would like to have one offensive player who is allowed to not play two way hockey. Just one guy who is here to put up 30-35 goals. You can manage one of those Barry. It's not 1999. Pekka and Weber type players can atone for 1/18 guys not bailing out for defense 24/7.

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03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #37
deanwormer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Might as well dump Clune, Halischuk, Hannan, Gill and Yip to create roster spots for the young guys in Milwaukee to come up for a shakedown cruise, accept the suck, take the hgh draft pick, and then see if ownership has the money and the balls to eat a bad contract or two this summer.
I'm pretty much in this camp, too, but I think it's probably a little soon yet for them to make that move; sell-outs or not, we can use the revenue from a PO series, and as bad as we suck if we win them both this weekend we aren't going to look as dead as we probably are.

Assuming no one wants to take any of those contracts we'd like to deal, we give Butler some ice time and see if he can rekindle that spark that made him a hobey baker finalist and a .6/game guy at Ottawa; if so, we got a 2nd liner for next year.

Meanwhile, a few more weeks of suckage and Poile/Fenton need to decide if they want to give the kids 15-20 games up, or they want Milwaukee to make the POs. Myself - I want at least Beck and Watson up and roll them with Smith/Wilson/Erat/ and whoever looks best (probably Gabby right now). Put Leggy and SK on Fish's wings and let them shut down the enemy top line. Gives you Goose, Spals, and whoever (and if Butler is a present surprise, you can keep him up and put the suckage that is SK74 on the 4th line).

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03-05-2013, 10:14 AM
  #38
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We also lost a player who added spark and busted his butt when the rest of the team got like this. He is now playing for our rivals because we benched him.

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03-05-2013, 10:15 AM
  #39
triggrman
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We also lost a player who added spark and busted his butt when the rest of the team got like this. He is now playing for our rivals because we benched him.
I agree. I said all along we'd miss his spark.

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03-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Preddownsouth View Post
I agree totally about Weber. I will always think that he wanted out because he saw this coming especially with Suter bolting. And yes I know all of that talk about 'he was a RFA so knew that the Preds could match' out there. But come on, do you think that Weber really thought this ownership group had the money to match the offer? He thought he was going to be a Flyer. But for good or bad, ownership broke open their collective piggy banks and came up with the money. Don't be shocked if we get rumblings after the season of Weber asking for a trade.

We shall see.
We gave up a lot of value and picks to sign him. I would hope for serious value. You don't sign an offer sheet of that magnitude and want to stay where you are.

I wanted him signed, still do. But when Josi has been you're best defenseman...

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03-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MrHenley View Post
I don't want Trotz system here anymore, but if he stays, I would like to have one offensive player who is allowed to not play two way hockey. Just one guy who is here to put up 30-35 goals. You can manage one of those Barry. It's not 1999. Pekka and Weber type players can atone for 1/18 guys not bailing out for defense 24/7.
I'm not sure that's really a fair observation. We rolled a line of Arnott/Dumont/Sully - not a ton of D being played there. We had PK - that's your "one guy". If Trotz is given those players he does play them the way we'd all like - Poile hasn't gotten him those kinda' assets the last couple years.

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03-05-2013, 10:19 AM
  #42
triggrman
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I agree totally about Weber. I will always think that he wanted out because he saw this coming especially with Suter bolting. And yes I know all of that talk about 'he was a RFA so knew that the Preds could match' out there. But come on, do you think that Weber really thought this ownership group had the money to match the offer? He thought he was going to be a Flyer. But for good or bad, ownership broke open their collective piggy banks and came up with the money. Don't be shocked if we get rumblings after the season of Weber asking for a trade.

We shall see.
You mean other than the fact the owners told him we had the money to match and did?

That argument is played. Weber even acknowledged the owners told him they would match any offer, and they did.

Adding a billionaire owner to the group is supposed to help with the cash flow thing right?

Weber hasn't been the problem anyway. We've seen him stick up for team mates, score game winning goals, throw the game changing hit. He's been our captain but it's tough to lead a ship right when the navigator is giving the wrong coordinates.

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03-05-2013, 10:20 AM
  #43
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I'm not totally against a coaching team, but some of you are missing the point:

The roster is garbage. Everyone on the team outside of Weber and Rinne is playing at least one line too high. Sure, you could bring in a different coach, but he's not going to suddenly turn Mike Fisher or David Legwand into a true offensive contributor. Erat is typically a second line wing, but he's played like trash this year for the most part, as well.

What I dont' understand is why you have two players that are the closest thing to "hot" that we have-- Craig Smith and Gabby Bourque-- yet Trotz continues to put Fisher, Kostitsyn, Erat on the first PP unit, despite the fact that it's been abysmal all season.

I've never seen another coach stress a "defensively responsible" power play unit.

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03-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #44
triggrman
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
I'm not totally against a coaching team, but some of you are missing the point:

The roster is garbage. Everyone on the team outside of Weber and Rinne is playing at least one line too high. Sure, you could bring in a different coach, but he's not going to suddenly turn Mike Fisher or David Legwand into a true offensive contributor. Erat is typically a second line wing, but he's played like trash this year for the most part, as well.

What I dont' understand is why you have two players that are the closest thing to "hot" that we have-- Craig Smith and Gabby Bourque-- yet Trotz continues to put Fisher, Kostitsyn, Erat on the first PP unit, despite the fact that it's been abysmal all season.

I've never seen another coach stress a "defensively responsible" power play unit.
It's not all Trotz but he is at fault.

And I agree, why in the world our young scorers aren't seeing more pp time is mind boggling.

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03-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #45
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I shut up about this mess pending what I saw against LA, but I've seen enough. Basically agreeing with most of you at this point.

I have zero interest in making any typical move we might see to improve this team for this season...I just think they are too far away from being a good team in a compressed schedule which never favored the Preds anyway. No rentals. Only moves that have mid and long term benefit should be considered.

In the addition by subtraction category, either Purse Holder or Legwand have to go. Redundant and under performing messes. Also, I've been sour on SK since last season and it's time he's got to go. He is good defensively and has offensive skill, but no offensive instinct. Does he even care? I don't think so.

If somebody wants a Gill, Hannan, Yip, Hustlesschuk, etc. off this team, fine, I'm listening.

The "Road to Nashville Goes Through Milwaukee". Really? Is the organizational depth so poor that there is nobody worth a look or is Poile so stupid/stubborn that he can't send a fax or whatever he's using these days to get some help from the Ads? If you don't bring somebody up you're sending this mixed message to the kids down there, again.

If I'm ownership, I tell Poile that I want to see his plan for improving this team and for him to implement it. Let it be known that if that means coaching changes, fine, do it. If it means moving players/picks, he's got until mid-summer after the draft and FA for ownership to make a decision as to whether we believe Poile has successfully upgraded this team and executed the plan. It's only a "team on paper" at that point, but we'll know by mid-summer if Poile was able to substantially upgrade the roster or not. Same old same old is just BS and excuses.

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03-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #46
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Poile and Trotz both shoulder the blame here, maybe it's time for a new direction with both.

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03-05-2013, 10:40 AM
  #47
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Poile and Trotz both shoulder the blame here, maybe it's time for a new direction with both.
If ownership wants Poile gone and Fenton to take over, it's probably this year or else Fenton will most likely move on to another team. I'm guessing ownership would be more comfortable with Fenton than an unknown outsider. Perhaps there is already some sort of gentleman's agreement about Fenton taking over if Poile retires anyway?

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03-05-2013, 10:42 AM
  #48
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AS much as I blast Trotz, I would like to see him with a legit NHL line-up.

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03-05-2013, 10:42 AM
  #49
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With Edmonton coming to town, there is a rare opportunity to jump start this team, especially with 3 days off here. I assume today is the CBA mandated off day and we practice tomorrow and Thursday. Now I mention Edmonton because they suck defensively. This is what I would do:

1. I would go ahead and form my shurtdown line of Spaling-Fisher-Legwand they want to play defensivly all the time, have at it and spend back to back nights dealing with edmonton and minnesotas top lines. have fun. Call it line 3 if you have to have a number on it.

2. Send Kostitsyn down. If he gets picked up at 3 million a year, he gets picked up. We leave him there to motivate him/see if he has the fight to stay at the NHL level. He can come back next year or buy him out. At worst let him toil til next year and bring him up and hope to eat only 1.5 million.

3. Decide what we want to do with our scoring lines. If Smith/Wilson is the horse we are gonna ride in on, so be it. Gaustad-Halischuk-yip-clune-butler is our fourth line. Sit two every night as the extra forwards. See what Butler has to offer here in small spurts, but the guy was on waivers for a reason. Stick Smith between Erat and bourque. Stick Wilson between Watson and Hornquist.

4. Waive Hannan. Ellis and Blum aren't the problem here. Or Klein. Or Weber. Or Josi. Each will take turns with a flub, but all dmen do. its a fact. If someone claims him great. We aren't gonna be able to trade him and if we do it will be for a low low pick. woowoo. Give Bartley a shot. If he fails, oh well, Gill will be back to suck up some time soon.

Erat-Smith-bourque
Watson/Beck-Wilson-Hornquist
Spaling-Legwand-Fisher
glut of grinder 4th line

Weber-Josi
Klein-Blum
Bartley-Ellis

Can't be worse then the **** put out last night

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03-05-2013, 10:43 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds Partisan View Post
If ownership wants Poile gone and Fenton to take over, it's probably this year or else Fenton will most likely move on to another team. I'm guessing ownership would be more comfortable with Fenton than an unknown outsider. Perhaps there is already some sort of gentleman's agreement about Fenton taking over if Poile retires anyway?
the last deal Poile signed he acknowledged it may have been his last with fenton taking over.

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