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Cole's Plus/Minus: The Sid, Fleury, & Geno Show (Pens vs. Lightning)

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03-05-2013, 08:38 AM
  #201
Shady Machine
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I don't feel like reading through the entire thread but I have a few thoughts on Letang that I want to get off my chest haha. He is so important to this team in transition and off the rush, but holy **** is he frustrating with his blatant turnovers and missed coverage defensively (not to mention his PP ability although not really an issue tonight).

He does this thing where he slides toward the puck carrier defensively even if it's not his guy and leaves the guy streaking wide open. I watched a 2 on 2 last night where the puck carrier was his partners man and he had the open guy. Instead of picking up that guy, he puck watched the entire time and slid over toward him leaving his guy WIDE OPEN on the back door. He does this **** far too often for a premier number 1 dman. I really feel like he relies on his athleticism and not his brain far too often. Just play simple defense. It's not that hard dude.

Anyway, carry on.

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03-05-2013, 09:05 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Just play simple defense.

WHY!?

he should just be himself

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03-05-2013, 09:15 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
WHY!?

he should just be himself
He should run around chasing the puck carrier and abandoning his man just because he's fast?

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03-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #204
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He should run around chasing the puck carrier and abandoning his man just because he's fast?
I'm wrong.

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03-05-2013, 09:21 AM
  #205
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
I'm wrong.
I think you're strange

You are not necessarily wrong, you just didn't explain yourself.

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03-05-2013, 09:28 AM
  #206
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Good patience by Letang on the Crosby goal.. could've dumped it to Dupuis or tried a shot but the wait paid off.

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03-05-2013, 09:31 AM
  #207
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I think you're strange
weakest person shot ever

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03-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #208
AquaticBirdman
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It burns me up like crazy to see just how pathetically WEAK we are in front of our own net. How many times this season do we need to see opposing players (especially their star players) creep into the the slot area within a few feet of our goal and cleanly rip a shot on net completely untouched!

Also, I have to agree 110% with Cole on Orpik's play. The man has been flat out BRUTAL this season. It's gotten to the point where he only looks anywhere near effective when he's playing the puck carrier to the outside/along the boards. Ask him to defend against a cycle, a puck carrier down low, or clear the front of the net and the guy looks absolutely lost. That point I mentioned about us being weak at defending the slot area, well Orpik has been a culprit of this on numerous occasions.

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03-05-2013, 09:53 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
Good patience by Letang on the Crosby goal.. could've dumped it to Dupuis or tried a shot but the wait paid off.
People can rag about Letang as much as they want, but when the man is on his game he's absolutely brilliant out there. The vision and creativity he brings to our blue line is irreplaceable in my opinion.

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03-05-2013, 09:54 AM
  #210
plaidchuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaticBirdman View Post
It burns me up like crazy to see just how pathetically WEAK we are in front of our own net. How many times this season do we need to see opposing players (especially their star players) creep into the the slot area within a few feet of our goal and cleanly rip a shot on net completely untouched!
Yep been about 3 straight games now where the majority of goals are from an undefended crease/slot.. And herer we go playing Philly a team that set up camp inside the net last game.

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03-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
Yep been about 3 straight games now where the majority of goals are from an undefended crease/slot..
And I'm sorry to say it, but there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever to give that much time and space to the league's most dangerous goal scorer like we did on both his goals last night. Unacceptable defending.

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03-05-2013, 09:58 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by AquaticBirdman View Post
And I'm sorry to say it, but there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever to give that much time and space to the league's most dangerous goal scorer like we did on both his goals last night. Unacceptable defending.
Yep and not even amazing shots, plays any player could make. He got a few looks on one-timers on the PP as well, you'd think the league would have that figured out by now.

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03-05-2013, 10:04 AM
  #213
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Kunitz helps that line because he's an exceptional board player and puck hound, something Neal has never, ever been known for, even when he's on. Expecting him to all of a sudden be a monster on the boards is as unreasonable as expecting Kunitz to all of a sudden have Neal's shot.
First of all, Kunitz is a pretty good board player, not an exceptional one. Lets keep the exaggerating to a minimum. That's twice in as many posts.

And once again, no one expects Neal to become anyone except the player he has already shown he is capable of being.

Trying to exaggerate for effect and making excuses for Neal isn't very convincing.

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And I don't think Neal's compete level has been anything near as atrocious as you're making out. You are over-exaggerating to make your point. He backchecks as hard as anyone on the team outside of Dupes, and he has 1.5 hits per game.
So it is your estimation that he didn't honestly come by his -4, and it was just a big coincidence the second line couldn't score at ES, and yet an even bigger coincidence DB removed him from Crosby's line. None of this had anything to do with Neal dogging it most of the season?

I guess DB figured Crosby needed his big PF, Dupuis, back.

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Neither Neal nor Malkin is a dogged board player, and that was a valuable component Kunitz brought to that line. If we want that line to consistently succeed at ES, it needs to find that attribute elsewhere.
Malkin is an exceptional board player but he can't cycle with himself. Neal has shown again and again he can do everything I expect from him, but he most certainly isn't doing it this season.

I guess he drank some gummy bear juice before the first period last night. I mean, there is no way we should expect that kind of effort for a full game, let alone an entire season.

It's not fair, right? He scores goals.

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You've gotta be kidding me with that list. Half of them don't hit and the other half don't score. I wouldn't trade Neal for any of them outside of Perry.
All of those guys hit more than Neal and play harder than Neal. And saying you prefer Neal over the likes of Lucic and Kane is borderline ridiculous.

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Hartnell and Kane are probably the closest to your ideal...one of them takes more stupid penalties than anyone in the league, and the other's a jackass who puts himself before his team.
Right because Neal isn't taking stupid, lazy penalties and he is giving it his all every shift for his teammates.

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Perry would be a godsend, but that's why he's going to make 7 mil plus on his next contract.
Perry doesn't have some magic powers that makes him better than Neal. He isn't a dynamic skater or anymore physically imposing. The difference is he does all of the little things needed to win. He agitates, goes to the net, finishes his checks and knows how to finish.

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The fact is that we got James Neal to score goals. We had a ******** of grinders and muckers, and exactly zero wingers who were one-shot scorers. Well now we have probably the 2nd best player in the league in that regard, and all some people want to do is chew them out for not being Kunitz. That's what's unreal.
The fact is you are wrong and making excuses for Neal. Once again he got removed from Crosby's line for a reason. DB was drolling for the day he could put those two together, then he was forced to break them up.

You want to read what you want to read. My point is and remains that Neal has another level he can go to and he is playing uninspired hockey. Just because he scores goals, doesn't mean he should be excused from hard work.

Joey Mullen, as I said, was a true sniper who wasn't very big and wasn't a great skater, but he worked his ass off every shift and didn't use his natural goal scoring abilities as a crutch to dog it.

Even the poster boy for lazy snipers (unfairly), Kessel, works twice as hard as Neal every game.

Just excuse after excuse for Neal. Keep them coming.

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03-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #214
AquaticBirdman
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I too gotta agree that Neal's overall work ethic hasn't quite been up to par with what we saw from him last season. Granted, he was playing on a line with a super human Malkin for the entire season, but it's not like he was merely floating around sponging off of Geno either. Last season Neal looked to have been playing a much more intense and energetic overall game. This season however he's appeared to be somewhat lethargic out there at times. Perhaps it has to do with Malkin's game having dipped a bit as well to start the season? Who knows...

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03-05-2013, 10:09 AM
  #215
12IsGreaterThan47
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Jiggy, stop holding back, tell us how you really feel about James Neal.

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03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
weakest person shot ever
Are you trolling me

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Old
03-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #217
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Are you trolling me
why don't you let me be I'm busy

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03-05-2013, 10:20 AM
  #218
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Jiggy, stop holding back, tell us how you really feel about James Neal.
He's a tireless worker who scores lots of goals.

It's not fair.

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03-05-2013, 10:21 AM
  #219
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by ILoveLuci View Post
why don't you let me be I'm busy
This is by far the strangest conversation I've had on these boards. Good day!

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03-05-2013, 10:23 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
He's a tireless worker who scores lots of goals.

It's not fair.
I don't know how anyone could watch Montreal or the 1st period last night and not think Neal is... "holding back" most shifts. He wasn't transformed in that 80-minute period, he was just working his ass off.

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03-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #221
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
Good patience by Letang on the Crosby goal.. could've dumped it to Dupuis or tried a shot but the wait paid off.
Lucky for us his 1st passing attempt failed and he was able to keep the puck and eventually set up Sid

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03-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #222
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I don't know how anyone could watch Montreal or the 1st period last night and not think Neal is... "holding back" most shifts. He wasn't transformed in that 80-minute period, he was just working his ass off.
Doesn't matter. He scores goals. It's not fair.

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03-05-2013, 10:30 AM
  #223
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As for the Neal debate, there is room in the middle, no?
Jiggy is right to point out that his compete level has been too low on many nights this season, and that is a major reason that his line(s) have been struggling ES; why he got pulled in favor of Dupuis from Crosby's line, and why he has the plus/minus he does. Many of us said this also when Geno was getting hammered for being a minus player.

.... and at the same time.... while wanting more (and effort should be expected from anyone), I agree that we should hardly consider Neal a problem.... it would be if he isn't giving his all consistently when the real season starts though.
I think the thing with Neal right now is that he makes the type of player Geno's other winger is relevant. I think Jiggy is arguing that, if Neal were playing like he should in his entire game, then Geno's other winger shouldn't matter. It's not an entirely unfair argument, but I think this is why I want a Malone/Kulemin/Kunitz type for Geno's other wing, because that makes what Neal does when he isn't shooting less relevant to Geno's ability to control a game.

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03-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Even the poster boy for lazy snipers (unfairly), Kessel, works twice as hard as Neal every game.

Just excuse after excuse for Neal. Keep them coming.
If you truly believe this then I seriously question your judgment regarding hockey players and their play.

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03-05-2013, 10:38 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
First of all, Kunitz is a pretty good board player, not an exceptional one. Lets keep the exaggerating to a minimum. That's twice in as many posts.

And once again, no one expects Neal to become anyone except the player he has already shown he is capable of being.

Trying to exaggerate for effect and making excuses for Neal isn't very convincing.



So it is your estimation that he didn't honestly come by his -4, and it was just a big coincidence the second line couldn't score at ES, and yet an even bigger coincidence DB removed him from Crosby's line. None of this had anything to do with Neal dogging it most of the season?

I guess DB figured Crosby needed his big PF, Dupuis, back.



Malkin is an exceptional board player but he can't cycle with himself. Neal has shown again and again he can do everything I expect from him, but he most certainly isn't doing it this season.

I guess he drank some gummy bear juice before the first period last night. I mean, there is no way we should expect that kind of effort for a full game, let alone an entire season.

It's not fair, right? He scores goals.



All of those guys hit more than Neal and play harder than Neal. And saying you prefer Neal over the likes of Lucic and Kane is borderline ridiculous.



Right because Neal isn't taking stupid, lazy penalties and he is giving it his all every shift for his teammates.



Perry doesn't have some magic powers that makes him better than Neal. He isn't a dynamic skater or anymore physically imposing. The difference is he does all of the little things needed to win. He agitates, goes to the net, finishes his checks and knows how to finish.



The fact is you are wrong and making excuses for Neal. Once again he got removed from Crosby's line for a reason. DB was drolling for the day he could put those two together, then he was forced to break them up.

You want to read what you want to read. My point is and remains that Neal has another level he can go to and he is playing uninspired hockey. Just because he scores goals, doesn't mean he should be excused from hard work.

Joey Mullen, as I said, was a true sniper who wasn't very big and wasn't a great skater, but he worked his ass off every shift and didn't use his natural goal scoring abilities as a crutch to dog it.

Even the poster boy for lazy snipers (unfairly), Kessel, works twice as hard as Neal every game.

Just excuse after excuse for Neal. Keep them coming.
I wouldn't call Malkin an exceptional board player, but I will agree that it's a little hard to do all the forechecking and cycling for your line. It wasn't as bad last night, but that may have had a lot to do with Geno going into 'I'm playing Tampa Bay God Mode'.

Even last night, third period, there was a 30 second sequence where Geno was ragging the puck low in the offensive zone against 3 Bolts players working switch offs and double teams, and Cooke and Neal may as well have pulled out the popcorn for all they were doing to help.

That said, I do agree a little with RRP that the player you think (IMO, rightfully) Neal can be isn't really a player he's ever consistently been. Must end post now . . . convulsions starting.

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