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Old
03-05-2013, 09:54 AM
  #51
barrytrotzsneck
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I don't agree that Blum\Ellis haven't been part of the problem. Blum has gone full-on back to last season Blum, and Ellis is starting to show his size in the defensive end. He's getting worked pretty good.

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03-05-2013, 09:56 AM
  #52
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I can't see this ownership group doing anything about Trotz or Poile. They continue to gush about how Poile is the best GM in the league and Trotz is the best coach in the league. They have too much admiration\respect to shorten their leashes. It's a similar situation to what was going on in Buffalo until this season. The problem is that Cigarran and Fritch, the two mouthpieces, acknowledge that their more hockey fan than hockey mind. Their assumption is that the issue is player related, and that Poile\Trotz are the team to fix it.

Maybe they're right, maybe they're not.

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03-05-2013, 10:00 AM
  #53
triggrman
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I think Blum has to be able to play aggressive. When he plays on instinct he's great, when he tries to slow things down and play it safe he makes bone headed plays.

He reminds me in that regard to Klein in his early years.

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03-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
I think Blum has to be able to play aggressive. When he plays on instinct he's great, when he tries to slow things down and play it safe he makes bone headed plays.

He reminds me in that regard to Klein in his early years.
Blum's issue that I'm noticing is that he's terrible one on one. Whether along the boards, or worse, protecting a zone entry...he gets beat way too often. At least twice a game lately he's been trying to maintain gap, only to have a forward simply...go around him.

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03-05-2013, 10:17 AM
  #55
deansredhalo
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Again, it's not just a talent issue, it's a system issue. Different players are going to produce the same result. Coyotes last playoffs showed the NHL how to easily beat the Trotz system and we've yet to adjust.
This x2000

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03-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #56
triggrman
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My biggest fear is that Poile makes a move for a name just to make a move. Like giving up anything of value for a players like Iggy.

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03-05-2013, 10:18 AM
  #57
gopreds19
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
AS much as I blast Trotz, I would like to see him with a legit NHL line-up.
See 2006-2007

Kariya, Dumont, Legwand, Sullivan, Erat, Timonen, Arnott, Weber, Hartnell, Radulov, Zidlicky, Suter, Hamhuis, Forsberg, Vokoun

I've been a critic of Trotz in the past, he deserves the benefit of the doubt however. He, Weber, Rinne, Wilson, Smith, Bourque, and Klein are about the only things worth keeping on this ship.

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03-05-2013, 10:20 AM
  #58
triggrman
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
See 2006-2007

Kariya, Dumont, Legwand, Sullivan, Erat, Timonen, Arnott, Weber, Hartnell, Radulov, Zidlicky, Suter, Hamhuis, Forsberg, Vokoun

I've been a critic of Trotz in the past, he deserves the benefit of the doubt however. He, Weber, Rinne, Wilson, Smith, Bourque, and Klein are about the only things worth keeping on this ship.
I'd add Josi to that group for sure.

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03-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #59
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Problem is they play with no emotion. When they do, they play with jump. Last week against Dallas Weber got pissed. He took a stick to the face. He leveled to Stars on the rest of his shift. When he plays controlled and with no emotion he's a great player, when he plays angry, he's a freaking beast and the team feeds off of it. Pronger was a beast like that because he was just plain mean. Stevens played like that. Let Weber play like that. Let guys wonder when they come into the offensive zone if Weber is lurking around the corner. If they know they can come in and all he's going to do is give them a love tap, they'll skate circles around him. Let him be the beast that he is. I have never seen a stronger guy on the ice then him. If he plays with that emotion and stays out of the box, we're a better team for it. He laid two monster hits on Dallas guys and didn't go to the box. I think the coaches want to see him play a level headed game. Well, that's all fine and good but he isn't putting fear into anyone. You think guys like going in against Chara? They shouldn't be too happy to go up against Weber either.

Someone put up an interesting stat about the longest tenured coaches in all the major sports leagues and in the NBA, MLB and NFL all those guys had championships, some of them multiple championships but also runs to multiple finals and big games. As much as I've enjoyed Trotz and what he can bring to a team, he can't get them over the hump. He needs to go at some point and the way the team gave up last night on him, it may be that time.

Poile may need to go as well and it may be time for Fenton to take over. He's a young creative mind. He knows how to draft well. Let him have the reigns. Shero has done wonders in Pittsburgh after being mentored by Poile. Maybe it's time to let go and let Fenton be the man. Belichik certainly did fine once he left his mentor, Parcells and he hasn't looked back. He's actually done better.

If a coach normally gets the most out of his players and he's not getting anything out of them, it's time for a changed. Outscored 12-3 on this road trip? Really? It's ridiculous. Guys being left alone in the slot game after game taking pot shots at Rinne from close distance. It's silly. No one sticks up for anyone else. How many times does Rinne get bumped or whacked after the whistle? How many times is Hornqvist taking a beating? What about Blum going face first into the boards a few nights ago and our guys just like, whatever. Stand up for another for once. Finish a check. Do something. Show emotion.

To go out and play like we did last night was embarrassing. I was able to score some tix for Friday night but part of me is like, what do I care, if they're going to play like that, I shouldn't even bother. This is what we waited for because of the lockout? Overpaid bunch of babies. Go out and play the game like you mean it.

I also wonder if our strength and conditioning guy needs to go. Our guys seem slow this year compared to other teams. Teach them how to skate.

We also suck at faceoffs. Learn how to win them. We've got one of the best guys in the league at winning them, let them learn from him. Call up Yannick Perrault and get him in to teach a clinic on how to win faceoffs. It's ridiculous that our team can't win a faceoff on the PP to save our lives. We can't hardly set anything up on the PP and get good scoring chances. Oh that's right, we have two guys that are abysmal at handling the puck on PP unit 1 in Horny and Fisher. Really, let's put SK on the point and that will solve things? That was the answer Trotz? I honestly think a baboon could actually put lines out there that make more sense. Let's break up SK, Smith and Clune who had been the only line doing anything and put Spaling out there in place of Clune. I'm as big a fan of Spaling as there is but Clune earned his spot out there with those two and it was working but hey, let's change it up. Oh yeah, Wilson is finally producing but let's move him away from Erat and Legwand both. That makes a lot of sense. He hasn't been the same player since he's been moved.

My question is, which player has the goat pictures?

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03-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #60
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Trotz or Poile may or may not be the problem. Historically one can't deny the defense they has put to together is playoff worthy. The short coming is and always has been offense. Last year being the exception, which is amazing that this basic group did what they did last year.

After the second goal last night it just seemed the entire team just melted down.Look to be going thru the motions but little else. The Borque goal was opportunistic due to a breakdown by the Kings. The Kings have been struggling this year much the same way the Preds have been. The major difference they have a group of forwards that can turn there situation arround. There is not one forward on this team that has played NHL caliber hockey this year at the 1st or 2nd line level.

I took alot of heat in another thread predicting that before this road trip began the next 6 gaes would tell the tell about making the playoffs. Well I was wrong it only took three games. This current roster has no chance of making it happen.

There has been something on ice that has brought them to this point. Is it how the AK, Radu thing was handled? Is it the Weber situation? Is it the inability to ice lines consistantly, for the most part its like names are put into a hat and drawn out to set lines. Is it that the forwards experienced playoff success last year has went to there head and they have the self image they are all Steven Stamkos and will not pull the trigger unless its a perfect shot? There is something that we have no clue about, it is up to the coaching staff to get this corrected. Even then the talent level is not offensivley competitive.

As to what to do short term some new blood needs to be added. Im not convinced bringing anyone up from Milwaukee would be a good idea. The can develope there much better than on an NHL roster. Smith is a perfect example of how quick a players confidence can be crushed. Im not sold he is a top caliber player in the first place but his skill level is sure hurt at ths point. He was a 4th round pick for goodness sake and while gems are found in later rounds he is no Datsyuk. And Datsyuk played 5 years after being drafted before sticking. College hockey rarely prepares players for the NHL that is the issue with Smith and could be with Watson as well. Heck look at Wilson were still waiting for him to breakout as well.

All that said just to point out the development program has two standards they develop defensemen thru the system and play craps with offense. Why I don't know.

If the reports that some changes are coming sooner rather than later you would have to think it will be by April 3rd. In all likleyhood too late to salvage this season. Much pressure will lessened if they can win Friday but at this point im not sure they can beat the kids from the Oil either.

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03-05-2013, 10:56 AM
  #61
triggrman
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I'm all for a season of developing in the minors but neither Beck nor Latta are going to learn much more in Milwaukee bring them up for sure, no reason not too.

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03-05-2013, 10:58 AM
  #62
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I'm all for a season of developing in the minors but neither Beck nor Latta are going to learn much more in Milwaukee bring them up for sure, no reason not too.
I'd be all for bringing up Beck, but at this time, he is currently injured. Latta has been playing wing this season, but I'd be interested to see what he could do as well. Mueller though is the likely call-up along with working Butler into the mix at forward.

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03-05-2013, 11:02 AM
  #63
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2. Send Kostitsyn down. If he gets picked up at 3 million a year, he gets picked up. We leave him there to motivate him/see if he has the fight to stay at the NHL level. He can come back next year or buy him out. At worst let him toil til next year and bring him up and hope to eat only 1.5 million.
This thread is ridiculous, but I think this idea takes the cake.

Waive Kostitsyn? Seriously? I agree that it might be time to part ways with him, but waiving a player like Kostitsyn is essentially the same as wiping your ass with draft picks and flushing them down the toilet. Terrible asset management. Kostitsyn would definitely get picked up and we wouldn't get anything of value. Kostitsyn is definitely worth at least a 3rd rounder at the deadline.

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03-05-2013, 11:05 AM
  #64
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Zach Boychuk incoming!

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03-05-2013, 11:11 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
This thread is ridiculous, but I think this idea takes the cake.

Waive Kostitsyn? Seriously? I agree that it might be time to part ways with him, but waiving a player like Kostitsyn is essentially the same as wiping your ass with draft picks and flushing them down the toilet. Terrible asset management. Kostitsyn would definitely get picked up and we wouldn't get anything of value. Kostitsyn is definitely worth at least a 3rd rounder at the deadline.
At his point three weeks away your right dangle him out there for a pick. If none are found send him down if he is picked up off waivers you gain salary relief. You can only put so much perfume on a turd to keep the smell down and the bottle is dry for SK and Legwand.

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03-05-2013, 11:24 AM
  #66
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I don't agree that Blum\Ellis haven't been part of the problem. Blum has gone full-on back to last season Blum, and Ellis is starting to show his size in the defensive end. He's getting worked pretty good.
disagree that blum has gone "full-on" back to last season. He is holding his own on the 2nd line, and has consistently stayed with a + on the overall +/-. Ellis is getting solid minutes on the 3rd line and is looking good on the PP. Hannan, however, is a -9...how come he isnt "part of the problem?"

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03-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #67
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Whats up bros, and possibly ladies. First time caller long time listener here on the boards. Last night's effort has motivated me to create an account to voice my complaints. I agree for the most part with everybody that says we need some major changes. As far as I see it, we only have a few players I'd like us to keep, Wilson, Bourque, Craig the flow beast, and hornqvist for the forwards, and josi, ellis, and klein on D. Anybody else that could be traded for appropriate value I wouldn't mind seeing moved. Clearly this team is not going to win anything but the league record for most times shutout in a season (even in half a season), and personally I expect more from this franchise, we've seen enough bad years as is. The vets at the top that Trotz is counting on (Fisher, Erat, SK, Legwand, etc..) are failing him miserably, and will likely cost him his job if he doesn't make some adjustments. I don't think I've ever hated a preds player more than Kostitsyn, he looks scared out there and probably doesn't know enough English to figure out that the coaches have been telling him to shoot for the past 3 years. Legwand has always been in my doghouse because of the expectations when he was drafted that never panned out, but he has never looked as bad as he has this year. I don't know what marty's deal is, same with fish, although I expect it has something to do with Carrie not putting out. I'd be fine if we had to keep fisher due to the NTC, but he has become much more reliable on D than on the other end, and we can't afford to put him out there as our #1 center if that is going to be the case. (I know fisher has always been like that, but this year's version can't even settle a tape to tape pass)

We need to move some of our young D prospects and some of our dead weight on O for a package including either a top line forward (prob not gonna happen) or some elite offensive prospect that will give us something to look forward to. I'd most like to see blum gone if there are any teams stupid enough out there to still over value him, but I assume other hockey GM's see the same things we do..

This season is pretty much over in my book. Unless Weber starts playing like he's worth half our cap room and the team follows suit, we are a first round exit at best (worst case imo). If we weren't required to hold onto him for the year I would be all for letting him go, he's not gonna win a cup on his own.

What do y'all see as the best case scenario? I hope we bring up some of our forward prospects to see if any of them have the desire to prove themselves on a team that desperately needs someone to step up, like craig did preseason last year. Expectations are sure to be low if it gets to that point, so I think the low pressure environment and needed nhl experience could do some good for the development of watson, beck, latta, or anyone else trotzy thinks could cut it. Somethings gotta happen, because this stuff isn't cutting it.

Also Gill/Hannan have got to go

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03-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #68
triggrman
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I think we all agree Hannan is a major part of the problem

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03-05-2013, 11:29 AM
  #69
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What do y'all see as the best case scenario?
Butler and Boychuk on the top line.

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03-05-2013, 11:30 AM
  #70
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At his point three weeks away your right dangle him out there for a pick. If none are found send him down if he is picked up off waivers you gain salary relief. You can only put so much perfume on a turd to keep the smell down and the bottle is dry for SK and Legwand.
He's definitely having a poor season, but so is everyone else on this team. Kostitsyn is good for ~45 points each season. This year, he's playing at a 32 point pace. He's still definitely worth a draft pick.

Carry on.

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03-05-2013, 11:39 AM
  #71
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Problem is they play with no emotion. When they do, they play with jump. Last week against Dallas Weber got pissed. He took a stick to the face. He leveled to Stars on the rest of his shift. When he plays controlled and with no emotion he's a great player, when he plays angry, he's a freaking beast and the team feeds off of it. Pronger was a beast like that because he was just plain mean. Stevens played like that. Let Weber play like that. Let guys wonder when they come into the offensive zone if Weber is lurking around the corner. If they know they can come in and all he's going to do is give them a love tap, they'll skate circles around him. Let him be the beast that he is. I have never seen a stronger guy on the ice then him. If he plays with that emotion and stays out of the box, we're a better team for it. He laid two monster hits on Dallas guys and didn't go to the box. I think the coaches want to see him play a level headed game. Well, that's all fine and good but he isn't putting fear into anyone. You think guys like going in against Chara? They shouldn't be too happy to go up against Weber either.

Someone put up an interesting stat about the longest tenured coaches in all the major sports leagues and in the NBA, MLB and NFL all those guys had championships, some of them multiple championships but also runs to multiple finals and big games. As much as I've enjoyed Trotz and what he can bring to a team, he can't get them over the hump. He needs to go at some point and the way the team gave up last night on him, it may be that time.

Poile may need to go as well and it may be time for Fenton to take over. He's a young creative mind. He knows how to draft well. Let him have the reigns. Shero has done wonders in Pittsburgh after being mentored by Poile. Maybe it's time to let go and let Fenton be the man. Belichik certainly did fine once he left his mentor, Parcells and he hasn't looked back. He's actually done better.

If a coach normally gets the most out of his players and he's not getting anything out of them, it's time for a changed. Outscored 12-3 on this road trip? Really? It's ridiculous. Guys being left alone in the slot game after game taking pot shots at Rinne from close distance. It's silly. No one sticks up for anyone else. How many times does Rinne get bumped or whacked after the whistle? How many times is Hornqvist taking a beating? What about Blum going face first into the boards a few nights ago and our guys just like, whatever. Stand up for another for once. Finish a check. Do something. Show emotion.

To go out and play like we did last night was embarrassing. I was able to score some tix for Friday night but part of me is like, what do I care, if they're going to play like that, I shouldn't even bother. This is what we waited for because of the lockout? Overpaid bunch of babies. Go out and play the game like you mean it.

I also wonder if our strength and conditioning guy needs to go. Our guys seem slow this year compared to other teams. Teach them how to skate.

We also suck at faceoffs. Learn how to win them. We've got one of the best guys in the league at winning them, let them learn from him. Call up Yannick Perrault and get him in to teach a clinic on how to win faceoffs. It's ridiculous that our team can't win a faceoff on the PP to save our lives. We can't hardly set anything up on the PP and get good scoring chances. Oh that's right, we have two guys that are abysmal at handling the puck on PP unit 1 in Horny and Fisher. Really, let's put SK on the point and that will solve things? That was the answer Trotz? I honestly think a baboon could actually put lines out there that make more sense. Let's break up SK, Smith and Clune who had been the only line doing anything and put Spaling out there in place of Clune. I'm as big a fan of Spaling as there is but Clune earned his spot out there with those two and it was working but hey, let's change it up. Oh yeah, Wilson is finally producing but let's move him away from Erat and Legwand both. That makes a lot of sense. He hasn't been the same player since he's been moved.

My question is, which player has the goat pictures?
we agree... esp on weber,emotion and not sticking up for each other.

we need boo birds out in force this weekend and for the rest of this year. no more standing O crap.... they don't deserve it.

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03-05-2013, 11:41 AM
  #72
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Butler and Boychuk on the top line.
well, put leggy and fish and whatever vet on the 4th......can;t be much worse than it has been .

let the hungry ones play..

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03-05-2013, 12:00 PM
  #73
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If ownership wants Poile gone and Fenton to take over, it's probably this year or else Fenton will most likely move on to another team. I'm guessing ownership would be more comfortable with Fenton than an unknown outsider. Perhaps there is already some sort of gentleman's agreement about Fenton taking over if Poile retires anyway?
Im pretty sure when poile signed his three year extension (not sure if that was this past summer or the summer before) that the plan was he would retire at the end of that deal and Fenton would take over.

I really think the shortened season is going to give Trotz and Poile cover... they can (rightfully) argue that the team has had funks like this before and pulled out of them but the shortened season isnt going to give them time to right the ship.

knowing this org and the faith they have in poile I think he gets this summer to try to fix things and if next year is a bust too then he will be gone, and likely Trotz too

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03-05-2013, 12:03 PM
  #74
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Here's the full article from the Mayor on Trotz's comments last night.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2013/03/preda...cting-changes/

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03-05-2013, 12:13 PM
  #75
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This thread is ridiculous, but I think this idea takes the cake.

Waive Kostitsyn? Seriously? I agree that it might be time to part ways with him, but waiving a player like Kostitsyn is essentially the same as wiping your ass with draft picks and flushing them down the toilet. Terrible asset management. Kostitsyn would definitely get picked up and we wouldn't get anything of value. Kostitsyn is definitely worth at least a 3rd rounder at the deadline.
you show me a GM that will give a 3rd round pick for 2 goals and 7 assists, numerous turnovers, weak play on the boards, and a fear to shoot and I will show you a soon to be ****canned GM.

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