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Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

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Old
03-04-2013, 07:25 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
1)

3) I didn't see that. Do you have a link?
http://sportsbreakthrough.com/show-a...hip-situation/

Audio

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03-04-2013, 09:16 PM
  #702
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Ah I forgot about that one. I wrote off Jamison.

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03-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #703
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Looks llike there's more upheaval on the horizon

Quote:
Paul Giblin‏@PaulGiblinAriz

#Glendale to conduct "performance evaluations" of the acting city manager and the city clerk in executive session Tuesday.
Quote:
Paul Giblin‏@PaulGiblinAriz

The three pro-Tindall members of the #Glendale council called the executive session for the acting city manager and city clerk.
http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...30513-SM00.pdf

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03-04-2013, 10:54 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Looks llike there's more upheaval on the horizon

Quote:
Paul Giblin‏@PaulGiblinAriz

#Glendale to conduct "performance evaluations" of the acting city manager and the city clerk in executive session Tuesday.
Quote:
Paul Giblin‏@PaulGiblinAriz

The three pro-Tindall members of the #Glendale council called the executive session for the acting city manager and city clerk.
http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...30513-SM00.pdf
Here is a more detailed article...

Source:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...employees.html

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03-04-2013, 11:03 PM
  #705
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Here is a more detailed article...

Source:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...employees.html
Interesting take away quote from Weiers in that article

Quote:
“I would hope that the council isn’t stepping backwards and doing things that don’t make sense right now when we have a real opportunity to move forward and start correcting some issues. I guess I’ll find out more,” he said.
And..

Quote:
Martinez and Sherwood said that they thought it made sense to do the evaluations for the other two now.

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03-05-2013, 12:08 AM
  #706
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Interesting take away quote from Weiers in that article



And..
Make no mistake.... the council is split 3-3 and Weiers will be playing both sides against each other.

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03-05-2013, 12:35 AM
  #707
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Make no mistake.... the council is split 3-3 and Weiers will be playing both sides against each other.
Its certainly beginning to look that way. On the one hand, he reportedly asks for Tindalls resignation (who has yet to actually hand in a resignation letter) who verbally obliges with 3.5mnths left until his review; now here Weiers says "I think its kind of crazy" that they would be holding a Performance Review on Skeete when his Contracts up in 3.5-4mnths anyway, an Executive Placement Firm engaged to search for a new City Manager (Weiers encouraging Skeete to apply). Platitudes such as "I dont want us taking steps backwards" and so on. Already done that Jerry. In getting rid of Tindall prematurely, and it looks to me to be partially personal, Tindall neither malleable nor subservient, power play. Yet Skeete, who is subservient & malleable, he favours, telling council "its crazy". This Jerry Weiers guy, he needs some watching. Career politician.

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03-05-2013, 02:18 AM
  #708
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http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...-district.html

Quote:
Arizona State University’s 330-acre Athletics Facilities District could take 20 years or more to build, but former U.S. Congressman Harry Mitchell emphasized this week that Tempe must plan now for the immense infrastructure needed to support the massive development.

Nielsen said ASU’s vision includes building arts-and-culture facilities, amateur-athletic facilities and commercial-office space. The university’s plans center on developing enough fee-generating office, retail and residential space to pay for the renovation of Sun Devil Stadium and for other new state-of-the art sports facilities.
Quote:
The development is decades from completion, Nielsen said, “but under Dr. Crow, he wants it all done immediately.”

The university’s goal is to “use our (public) facilities as an economic driver.”

Nielsen has said that ASU expects to select a developer for the master plan by the end of this month.
ASU moving the chains slowly but surely on the redevelopment project. I can't really think of a parallel situation. Has any other university ever held so much prime land under control and been able to get revenue from it (CFD style) before? Crow wants that $$$ to renovate the football stadium to help the program get to Big 10/SEC status. They also need to replace the basketball stadium to do the same for the basketball team. So there's an opportunity there to put a nice arena in what is basically South Scottsdale. If such an arena is ever announced, the clock starts ticking on the Coyotes and the Suns. Powerhouse location. If you put it where Packard is/was, it's within walking distance of campus and a light rail station. Crow has said he wants the major facilities done no later than 2020.

It would be nice to escape the great Glendale dumpster fire.

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03-05-2013, 02:26 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
5) Was Kevy's list finally burned to ashes after being proven wrong so many times?

Updates much appreciated!
It's a tragic story, in all honesty. There were some rumors of a plot to cram "the list" down Kevy D's throat. He must have benn forewarned, as he easily thwarted this effort.

There were rumors of an impending transfer to the Middle East, and a ritualistic burial into the former local of the Dead Sea scrolls. However this was merely a cover for the true final destination was Washington D.C.'s prestigious Smithsonian Museum.

Why, it was on this secret journey that the plot took an extreme turn to the obscure. A rogue band of Nordiques Shaman priests had been afoot of the entire ordeal. They confronted the secret caravan on a mid-west interstate and commenced a stand off.

In the moment of truth, "The List" was snatched and returned to the bowels of Le Collissee. It is hither to unknown as to what has become of the sacred text, but it is believed that chanting and poutine is likely involved.

Cheers.

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03-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Platitudes such as "I dont want us taking steps backwards" and so on. Already done that Jerry. In getting rid of Tindall prematurely, and it looks to me to be partially personal, Tindall neither malleable nor subservient, power play. Yet Skeete, who is subservient & malleable, he favours, telling council "its crazy". This Jerry Weiers guy, he needs some watching. Career politician.
It seems to me that the politicians and staff who put the city into a massive deficit were the ones that need some watching, no? The new council majority seems compelled to do just that. I would hesitate to call any dismissals premature. Looks like Weiers and the majority are systematically eradicating the inefficiencies that created the problems (which extend well beyond the Coyotes). But for the purposes of our forum, the new majority doesn't seem to want to delude themselves with Clarkonomic misrepresentations and obfuscations. The economic reality is the Coyotes at AMF $13MM are about the worst possible use of the arena; which means if the new council continues to act prudently, the team is very likely one of the inefficiencies that will be cut.

None of this seems like a "power play" to me. It seems like a long overdue, logical return to basic fiduciary duties.

Quote:
Make no mistake.... the council is split 3-3 and Weiers will be playing both sides against each other
That's just a bit melodramatic, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
ASU moving the chains slowly but surely on the redevelopment project. If such an arena is ever announced, the clock starts ticking on the Coyotes and the Suns.
That concept probably belongs in the discard bin. NBA/NHL business models generally involve controlling all arena revenues. Why would the university ever give that type of control to a team?

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03-05-2013, 10:39 AM
  #711
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That concept probably belongs in the discard bin. NBA/NHL business models generally involve controlling all arena revenues. Why would the university ever give that type of control to a team?
I was going to say that the 20 year forecasted completion date, or the ramped up 2020 date, is well outside the fence of viability as an option, as the necessity is immediate... but this better exemplifies it

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03-05-2013, 10:40 AM
  #712
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That concept probably belongs in the discard bin. NBA/NHL business models generally involve controlling all arena revenues. Why would the university ever give that type of control to a team?
How does the Hurricanes/NC State deal work?

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03-05-2013, 10:53 AM
  #713
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It seems the history of the Coyotes hockey in Glendale is nearly over. Out of curiosity what was the totall damage in $$ of keeping them there all these years: excluding the cost of the arena of course.

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03-05-2013, 11:02 AM
  #714
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How does the Hurricanes/NC State deal work?
IIRC, and Tarheel Hockey would probably better suited to fill in the grey areas, NC State put in about $20M towards the Arena construction. Think they receive revs for Wolfpack games but again, Tarheel would probably answer that in more detail.

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03-05-2013, 11:35 AM
  #715
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How does the Hurricanes/NC State deal work?
I don't know enough about it to comment. But I would be really surprised if NC State University created the mechanism that funded construction and then turned around and gave the Hurricanes control of the major building revenues.

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03-05-2013, 11:56 AM
  #716
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How does the Hurricanes/NC State deal work?
According to the below article, it seems the teams collects all hockey related ticket revenue. In addition, it seems that also get money from an undisclosed source, per the $2.3 million in revenue from the 2004-05 season. Perhaps it is naming rights, perhaps other concerts. The team does pay about $3 million in rent. It doesn't answer all the questions, but it least is interesting.

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/ins...nt?oid=3177102

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03-05-2013, 12:28 PM
  #717
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That's just a bit melodramatic, don't you think?
Over the last four years in Glendale.... what hasn't been that???

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03-05-2013, 12:31 PM
  #718
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It seems the history of the Coyotes hockey in Glendale is nearly over. Out of curiosity what was the totall damage in $$ of keeping them there all these years: excluding the cost of the arena of course.
Up to this point.... $25 million.... with another $25 million pending.

Before the team was sent to BK court, the city was pulling in enough to easily make it's bond payments.

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03-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #719
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It seems like a long overdue, logical return to basic fiduciary duties.
I dont think theres any question that thats' clearly their intent, and certainly I applaud those efforts. Its how one achieves such objectives, goes about them thats telling. With so much in flux, basically January 31 through the end of the season absolutely critical in having informed & experienced staff on hand. I for one think it foolish to have forced Tindall out early when here's a guy who knows where the bodies are buried, is beyond experienced & Sr to everyone else involved, right up to speed. Weiers etc might not like what he had to say or proposed, thats fine, disagree with whatever. His review & renewal was pending in late spring anyway, no need for such haste.

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03-05-2013, 01:33 PM
  #720
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So, from the other thread, Sherwood thinks that ~12M for 12 years is palatable to Glendale. What is his history on the matter? Does anyone know?

I don't see any difference in that, and in letting them leave now, because in 12 years they will either have their hand out for more, or they will leave then.

And, for 12 years, it's not much different than the 320M offered to Jamison in a per year calculation.

Comments?

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03-05-2013, 01:43 PM
  #721
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^^^

When you do the math its....

$12M for 12 years or was

$15.4M for 20 years

Does saving on average that $3.4M per year make all that much difference to the CoG? Every dollar counts I guess, but its not like they are saving 50% or along those lines.

And why 12 years? Someone is still going to have to manage the arena after 12 years, or is that when it will be paid off and can be shuttered up, or is Jamison going to buy / own it in 12 years?

Questions... questions...


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03-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #722
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Over the last four years in Glendale.... what hasn't been that???
Good point. I bet if I scanned the archive, I could find more than one comment that I've made that belongs in the thespian column as well.

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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post
Up to this point.... $25 million.... with another $25 million pending.

Before the team was sent to BK court, the city was pulling in enough to easily make it's bond payments.
I think if you check the actuals, you'll arrive at a different conclusion. City revenue from Westgate and Arena have never been enough to offset the annual bond debt servicing. But at least they weren't compounding that shortfall by tossing an absurd AMF payment into the mix as well.

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I dont think theres any question that thats' clearly their intent, and certainly I applaud those efforts. Its how one achieves such objectives, goes about them thats telling. With so much in flux, basically January 31 through the end of the season absolutely critical in having informed & experienced staff on hand. I for one think it foolish to have forced Tindall out early when here's a guy who knows where the bodies are buried, is beyond experienced & Sr to everyone else involved, right up to speed. Weiers etc might not like what he had to say or proposed, thats fine, disagree with whatever. His review & renewal was pending in late spring anyway, no need for such haste.
Maybe you and I just disagree on Tindall's effectiveness. In my opinion, it's never too early to dismiss individuals who create a wake of wreckage comparable to what has occurred in Glendale. Also, Jan 31 through end of season is only critical if you think persisting the Coyotes in Glendale is imperative. But since there is no economic justification for that position, it's hard to view it is critical.

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03-05-2013, 02:14 PM
  #723
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^^^

When you do the math its....

$12M for 12 years or was

$15.4M for 20 years

Does saving on average that $3.4M per year make all that much difference to the CoG? Every dollar counts I guess, but its not like they are saving 50% or along those lines.

And why 12 years? Someone is still going to have to manage the arena after 12 years, or is that when it will be paid off and can be shuttered up, or is Jamison going to buy / own it in 12 years?

Questions... questions...
The main question I would have is why the COG is still talking to folks like Leblanc and Jamison. They should be talking to folks who might actually be able to afford to buy the Coyotes.

Remember, Leblanc was part of a group that cajoled the COG into a signing an "exclusivity" agreement for negotiating a lease on the false claim that they had the financial wherewithal to purchase the Coyotes. Jamison has had two lease agreements passed by the COG, and failed to deliver investors for either one, while refusing to disclose the identity of his investors or provide any explanation for the failure of his bid. Why would the COG believe anything that these guys claimed in terms of the sort of lease that would be acceptable to a prospective owner. The COG should shove these guys aside and find out who has the money to invest, and negotiate directly with them.

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03-05-2013, 02:20 PM
  #724
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Maybe you and I just disagree on Tindall's effectiveness. In my opinion, it's never too early to dismiss individuals who create a wake of wreckage comparable to what has occurred in Glendale. Also, Jan 31 through end of season is only critical if you think persisting the Coyotes in Glendale is imperative. But since there is no economic justification for that position, it's hard to view it is critical.
While I agree "its never to early to dismiss individuals who create a wake wreckage", Im not so sure he wasnt acting on the instruction of the former Mayor & majority of Council in simply performing his duties as lead City Attorney. While I found many of his tactics reprehensible, not so quick to condemn. He was engaging in sharp practice, crafting & trying to facilitate the sale on orders, dont believe he was "out there" freelancing, self interested & bent, looking to somehow feather his own nest. His "clients", the city itself demanding he build the rocket for their various Moonshots, who then failed to hit the red button when it came to launch. The Bonding issue a classic example, whereby their window of opportunity for lift-off, late December 2010 through the first week of January 2011 closed, the Hulsizer dealeo completely unravelling thereafter. I thought the agreement utterly absurd, sure enough, but so too perhaps did Craig Tindall. Simply facilitated the build of the launch pad as ordered, instructed, quite possibly more than conscious of the fact that Mission Control didnt have the guts to pull the switch.

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03-05-2013, 03:22 PM
  #725
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So circle May 31 2013 on your calendars...

A person with knowledge of the negotiations, who asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to discuss city deals, said if an owner is not found by June, the Coyotes will move from Arizona.

http://www.glendalestar.com/news/art...a4bcf887a.html

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