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Old
03-05-2013, 01:37 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Almost every time a trade is proposed the team/person that is proposing it thinks its fair value and the other team almost always says it isn't. It seems like every time overvalues their own players and it just makes silly arguments about every single proposal ever made.
That's a two-way street right there.

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03-05-2013, 01:37 PM
  #27
Zorf
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
What a stupid post. Seriously.

OP is a Sens fan. He's asking what it would take to acquire Gaborik. Don't like the price? Then accept the fact that you're not willing to invest the assets necessary for a talent like him, and move on.



14P in 20G and he's 'off'. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he was 'on'. And fact of the matter is, shoulder surgery takes longer than a few weeks to completely heal. It's not the main reason for his minor struggles, but it shouldn't be overlooked.
I'm fine with my proposal being shot down. I appreciate the answers and it makes sense to me. I thought the Rangers were under a much more serious cap crunch than is reality, and that's fine. It makes sense that Gaborik's value is more than what I proposed.

As for his production/expectations, based on an 82 game schedule, his current pace is basically 60 points. Considering he's paid $7.5M, I don't know how happy Rangers fans would be with that level of production, especially based on what he has done in the past.

And I didn't know he had shoulder surgery! The more you know!!

Still, I think everyone can agree that Gaborik isn't playing at a level expected of him.

Fair?

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03-05-2013, 01:37 PM
  #28
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Ottawa passes on both I beleive (Especially, the one With Zibi, Cowen, 1st)

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03-05-2013, 01:38 PM
  #29
Cujomi
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
It's way far off. Michalek isn't on Gaboriks level. You've constantly said Gaborik is playing below expecations which is true, but guess what he still has 14 points in 20 games. Pretty good for a guy who hasn't been playing well, no.

This trade is brutal. A consistent 30/40 goal scorer in Gaborik can't be had for anything less than a quality package. He's so underrated on these boards it's sad.
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
14P in 20G and he's 'off'. Imagine what his numbers would look like if he was 'on'. And fact of the matter is, shoulder surgery takes longer than a few weeks to completely heal. It's not the main reason for his minor struggles, but it shouldn't be overlooked.
Michalek is a career .65 point per game player with .311 goals per game. Gaborik is a career .89 point per game player with .446 goals per game. However, Gaborik has been trending down and Michalek is trending upwards. Right now they're pretty close (Michalek 8 in 13 and Gaborik 14 in 20).

When you take offence out of the equation there's no question that Michalek is far better everywhere else on the ice. He'll battle in the corners, he plays very well defensively and he's probably the most threatening forward on our roster on the PK.

Gaborik is a better player, but the gap isn't what you make it out to be.

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03-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #30
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I agree but they started it.

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03-05-2013, 01:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Altimus View Post
They both take up the same amount of space on the IR though.
Unfortunately that's the only area where they match up evenly.

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03-05-2013, 01:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Tell me, how many players scored 40 goals last season.

Tell me, how many players have put up 100+ goals over the last 3 years.

Tell me, how many players have had 2 40 goal seasons in the last three.

Tell me the value of those guys and why Gaborik shouldn't be considered worth in the realm they are.
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
That's a two-way street right there.
Not really sure what the point of these are. I wasn't referring only to one team or one person. Though the indignant responses were what prompted the post.

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03-05-2013, 01:40 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Zorf View Post
I'm fine with my proposal being shot down. I appreciate the answers and it makes sense to me. I thought the Rangers were under a much more serious cap crunch than is reality, and that's fine. It makes sense that Gaborik's value is more than what I proposed.

As for his production/expectations, based on an 82 game schedule, his current pace is basically 60 points. Considering he's paid $7.5M, I don't know how happy Rangers fans would be with that level of production, especially based on what he has done in the past.

And I didn't know he had shoulder surgery! The more you know!!

Still, I think everyone can agree that Gaborik isn't playing at a level expected of him.

Fair?
He's not, but when he does, imagine what his numbers will be. He's put up 14 points in 20 games and hasn't played like himself.

That's pretty damn good for a guy who's slumping.

And why don't you look into the cap situation before just throwing that out there as if it's a good reason why the Rangers will sell low on Gaborik.

Also, if they were to begin shopping him, i'd bet all my savings, that other teams would offer a hell of a lot more than what you proposed.

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03-05-2013, 01:41 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Zorf View Post
I'm fine with my proposal being shot down. I appreciate the answers and it makes sense to me. I thought the Rangers were under a much more serious cap crunch than is reality, and that's fine. It makes sense that Gaborik's value is more than what I proposed.

As for his production/expectations, based on an 82 game schedule, his current pace is basically 60 points. Considering he's paid $7.5M, I don't know how happy Rangers fans would be with that level of production, especially based on what he has done in the past.

And I didn't know he had shoulder surgery! The more you know!!

Still, I think everyone can agree that Gaborik isn't playing at a level expected of him.

Fair?
Of course it's fair. Nothing wrong with kicking tires on something. And I don't hate the Michalek/Gaborik swap, I think the foundation for a potential trade is there, assuming the Rangers did want to move Gaborik.

IMO, other teams would ultimately out-bid Ottawa if Gaborik was available. Consistent 40G scorers don't just grow on trees. They are an extremely rare, and valuable bunch.

The + is what's not enough. It would be nice to stockpile picks in this draft, but considering we already have 3 3rd's, it isn't enough to sway our opinions about the swap. Again though, I don't hate it. It's better than the rest of the crap cluttering this trade-section.

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03-05-2013, 01:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Not really sure what the point of these are. I wasn't referring only to one team or one person. Though the indignant responses were what prompted the post.
I understand, but I'm saying why people always respond like this. Most of the proposals are serious garbage without any sort of thought put into them.

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03-05-2013, 01:43 PM
  #36
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Michalek + 3rd for Gaborik is a way, way closer deal than Zibanejad, Cowen/Ceci, 1st.

Even then I'd still not want to trade Michalek for Gaborik. He's cheaper, more physical and better defensively than Gaborik. I don't think the upgrade in offense is worth it.

Sens are better off saving their money and going after Perry if he hits UFA. Not really interested in Gaborik at 7.5M if I might be able to get Perry for 8M.

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03-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #37
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I'd be willing to add a good prospect to Michalek+3rd. On defense Gryba, Borowiecki or Claesson might be of interest. Forward prospects would be Puempel, Hoffman, Da Costa, Prince, Maidens not sure what you'd be looknig for. We could even throw in a good bottom 6'er for an overpaid bottem 6'er to give the rangers even more cap savings. Something like adding O'Brien and Boyle or Pyatt

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03-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Michalek is a career .65 point per game player with .311 goals per game. Gaborik is a career .89 point per game player with .446 goals per game. However, Gaborik has been trending down and Michalek is trending upwards. Right now they're pretty close (Michalek 8 in 13 and Gaborik 14 in 20).
When you take offence out of the equation there's no question that Michalek is far better everywhere else on the ice. He'll battle in the corners, he plays very well defensively and he's probably the most threatening forward on our roster on the PK.

Gaborik is a better player, but the gap isn't what you make it out to be.
Right now is misleading. Gaborik's still recovering from shoulder surgery. You have to look at the big picture. 7 time 40+ goal scorer, versus 1 time 30+ goal scorer. .65ppg to .89ppg. It's a significant difference.

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03-05-2013, 01:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
IMO, other teams would ultimately out-bid Ottawa if Gaborik was available. Consistent 40G scorers don't just grow on trees. They are an extremely rare, and valuable bunch.
I don't know. You usually get an undervalued return when trading away star players. Look at what Boston got in return for Joe Thornton for example. Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. Decent players but no real all-stars or potential stars.

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03-05-2013, 01:48 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Michalek is a career .65 point per game player with .311 goals per game. Gaborik is a career .89 point per game player with .446 goals per game. However, Gaborik has been trending down and Michalek is trending upwards. Right now they're pretty close (Michalek 8 in 13 and Gaborik 14 in 20).

When you take offence out of the equation there's no question that Michalek is far better everywhere else on the ice. He'll battle in the corners, he plays very well defensively and he's probably the most threatening forward on our roster on the PK.

Gaborik is a better player, but the gap isn't what you make it out to be.
A net gain of 11 goals and 20 points per season is a pretty significant gap.

Gaborik had 41 goals last year, good for third in the NHL. Not exactly sure how that's trending down.

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03-05-2013, 01:50 PM
  #41
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Michalek + Zibanejad

Gaborik + 2nd

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03-05-2013, 01:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
He's not, but when he does, imagine what his numbers will be. He's put up 14 points in 20 games and hasn't played like himself.

That's pretty damn good for a guy who's slumping.

And why don't you look into the cap situation before just throwing that out there as if it's a good reason why the Rangers will sell low on Gaborik.

Also, if they were to begin shopping him, i'd bet all my savings, that other teams would offer a hell of a lot more than what you proposed.
Christ, you're pretty defensive about a question that I asked, which is representative of a ficticious situation to begin with.

Keep your savings in your bank. This entire Trade Forum is make believe stuff anyways. No need to get your panties in a twist. Again, this forum is not real life.

Yes, Gaborik has scored 40+ goals on multiple occasions, but he's not close to that pace right now and regardless of your stiffy for Gaborik, there is no way you can fully claim that he will ever hit 40 again. He probably will, but he might not. His value, whether you like it or not, is taking a hit based on his level of play right now, which while "good" is not at the level expected of a guy taking up $7.5M in cap space.

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03-05-2013, 01:55 PM
  #43
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I don't know. You usually get an undervalued return when trading away star players. Look at what Boston got in return for Joe Thornton for example. Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau and Brad Stuart. Decent players but no real all-stars or potential stars.
Who was the last elite winger traded post-lockout coming off a 40G season that wasn't a pending UFA again?

What does Sather's trade history tell you about his negotiating skills?

Gaborik's not getting moved for scraps. Or "less" than we expect. I guarantee that.

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03-05-2013, 01:55 PM
  #44
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dont see why both teams would do this

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03-05-2013, 01:58 PM
  #45
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Michalek + Puempel + 2nd or Michalek + Ceci is the most I'd do probably

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03-05-2013, 02:02 PM
  #46
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No, absolutely not!!. Michaelek and Gaborik are free agents at the same time (2014). I'd rather let Gaborik and his 40 goals walk then let Michaelek walk. The Rangers are better off going for the cup these next 2 years with Gaborik over Michaelek.

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03-05-2013, 02:02 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensontheRush View Post
Michalek + Zibanejad

Gaborik + 2nd
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Michalek + Puempel + 2nd or Michalek + Ceci is the most I'd do probably
Step up. Kudos.

Rangers would still pass though.

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03-05-2013, 02:03 PM
  #48
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Christ, you're pretty defensive about a question that I asked, which is representative of a ficticious situation to begin with.

Keep your savings in your bank. This entire Trade Forum is make believe stuff anyways. No need to get your panties in a twist. Again, this forum is not real life.

Yes, Gaborik has scored 40+ goals on multiple occasions, but he's not close to that pace right now and regardless of your stiffy for Gaborik, there is no way you can fully claim that he will ever hit 40 again. He probably will, but he might not. His value, whether you like it or not, is taking a hit based on his level of play right now, which while "good" is not at the level expected of a guy taking up $7.5M in cap space.
I'm going off the facts that he hit 40 last year. That he's hit it 2 out of the last 3 years.

There isn't a hit based on 20 games into a season where he's still nearly put up a PPG.

You really don't understand how value works at all.

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03-05-2013, 02:04 PM
  #49
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Ummm yes to the OP...

No way NY does it though.

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03-05-2013, 02:05 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Zorf View Post
Christ, you're pretty defensive about a question that I asked, which is representative of a ficticious situation to begin with.

Keep your savings in your bank. This entire Trade Forum is make believe stuff anyways. No need to get your panties in a twist. Again, this forum is not real life.

Yes, Gaborik has scored 40+ goals on multiple occasions, but he's not close to that pace right now and regardless of your stiffy for Gaborik, there is no way you can fully claim that he will ever hit 40 again. He probably will, but he might not. His value, whether you like it or not, is taking a hit based on his level of play right now, which while "good" is not at the level expected of a guy taking up $7.5M in cap space.
Wait, what? you can't claim he won't hit 40 again either. just like I can claim Michaelek wouldn't hit 30 with the Rangers (defensive style system), see how that works? I'll take the guy who's scored 40 7x over the guy who's scored 30 once.

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