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Prospect Talk PART VI

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Old
03-04-2013, 05:32 PM
  #301
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by PROMputt View Post
When can the Islanders start counting on Tavares as a veteran influence and the 'insulation' for some of the prospects the Islanders have?
Sometimes all this talk about when a prospect is ready Vs being rushed is mind numbing. I really do not think it is a perfect science and GM's are constantly under pressure to get them to the NHL level. I do no think the decision on Strome can be made until next seasons camp and see how he looks against NHL competition. Even then I am sure a debate will ensue with the rush vs ready fans here on these boards(I can see it already if Strome sticks and gets off to a slow start the amount of time and threads that will be made here...)
Tavares can only "insulate" Strome if he's on the same line with him. Isn't the whole point about upgrading the 2C spot, so that the Isles have two legitimate scoring line centers, rather than relying on Nielsen to be the 2nd line center?

When I say insulate, I mean playing Strome on a line that's easier to break into the league at (probably 2nd or 3rd line), but with some veterans who are established NHL scorers who can take some of the burden off of him so he doesn't have to carry his line right from the start. Can a line of Bailey-Strome-Okposo carry the load as a legitimate second line? Or how about Strome on the wing to start with Nielsen as his center? Would he be able to adjust slowly to the NHL in either of those scenarios? Maybe. But IMO it's asking a lot from a kid just out of junior to have to be the main offensive weapon on his line.

The only solution is putting Strome on Tavares' line, but it could mean the same kind of issue that having Boyes and Moulson on his line results in this year, with Tavares having to carry a bigger workload to make up for shortcomings of his linemates. Strome's not going to be any better defensively/physically than what Boyes currently provides, and as a rookie, I'd be surprised if Strome puts up superior numbers to Boyes/Parenteau. So in effect, you're not "upgrading" that line either.

I do agree, however, that if Strome gets off to a slow start you'll see numerous "is Strome a bust?" threads popping up. Which will be unfair to the kid, because if he DOES get off to a bad start, it'll likely be because he's put in a role he's not quite ready to handle yet.

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03-04-2013, 07:37 PM
  #302
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I don't think you can blame people for wanting to see guys like Strome, Nino, Nelson and Reinhart sooner rather than later. Considering this isn't the average team that would address a weakness with an actual acquisition, it comes down to either a top prospect or two or more waiver wire pickups.

While you obviously don't want to rush your best prospects, which choice would give you more hope for a successful season?

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03-04-2013, 08:36 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Tavares can only "insulate" Strome if he's on the same line with him. Isn't the whole point about upgrading the 2C spot, so that the Isles have two legitimate scoring line centers, rather than relying on Nielsen to be the 2nd line center?

When I say insulate, I mean playing Strome on a line that's easier to break into the league at (probably 2nd or 3rd line), but with some veterans who are established NHL scorers who can take some of the burden off of him so he doesn't have to carry his line right from the start. Can a line of Bailey-Strome-Okposo carry the load as a legitimate second line? Or how about Strome on the wing to start with Nielsen as his center? Would he be able to adjust slowly to the NHL in either of those scenarios? Maybe. But IMO it's asking a lot from a kid just out of junior to have to be the main offensive weapon on his line.

The only solution is putting Strome on Tavares' line, but it could mean the same kind of issue that having Boyes and Moulson on his line results in this year, with Tavares having to carry a bigger workload to make up for shortcomings of his linemates. Strome's not going to be any better defensively/physically than what Boyes currently provides, and as a rookie, I'd be surprised if Strome puts up superior numbers to Boyes/Parenteau. So in effect, you're not "upgrading" that line either.

I do agree, however, that if Strome gets off to a slow start you'll see numerous "is Strome a bust?" threads popping up. Which will be unfair to the kid, because if he DOES get off to a bad start, it'll likely be because he's put in a role he's not quite ready to handle yet.
You are exactly right. Strome is a finesse player, not a physical specimen. That 1st line will get a lot of attention and JT will have to actually carry Strome, making his job even tougher for a while. The best place for Strome to start on the Island is RW on a 2nd line (if only we had a big, experienced center for him, which we dont). There is really no good fit to slot him into the lineup because of roster shortcomings. I feel he will be overmatched as 2nd line center unless we have two very solid, physical wingers with him. But we don't. Okposo and Bailey can not provide that cover for Strome, they can barely exist themselves.

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03-04-2013, 09:43 PM
  #304
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Strome is scary good. I don't think fans here realize we have something very special in the pipeline. I am far less excited about the rest of our AHL prospects... we have some bottom liners but lack true top 6 players.

I do agree we need to add more to our top 6 through UFAs and trades, but Strome is going to be legit awesome. Very happy he is being given the time to develop his game.

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03-04-2013, 11:39 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by PROMputt View Post
I really do not think it is a perfect science and GM's are constantly under pressure to get them to the NHL level. I do no think the decision on Strome can be made until next seasons camp and see how he looks against NHL competition. Even then I am sure a debate will ensue with the rush vs ready fans here on these boards(I can see it already if Strome sticks and gets off to a slow start the amount of time and threads that will be made here...)
Good points. I'm optimistic Strome will make a good pro and I like how his game has evolved. I truly hope Wang and Snow are able to bring in 1-2 solid forwards and 1-2 solid dmen and a goalie before Strome, Nelson and Nino are NHLers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Niederreiter-Tavares-Moulson
Grabner-Strome-Ullstrom
Okposo-Nielsen-Bailey
Martin-Cizikas-?

Who's to say those lines couldn't be very potent ? If Strome, Nelson and Niederreiter all have very good camps, why would you want to hold them back from achieving their dreams especially if they earned it. Let's see where the chips fall, and if they deserve it, they will make the team, and very possibly produce at a decent clip.
I hope you are right. There is a chance that all three of Strome, Nino and Nelson will be ready to contribute next year. I suspect Nelson is furthest ahead but we shall see.

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03-05-2013, 12:26 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
While that's true, I don't think it's exaggerating to suggest that the Isles' problems go far beyond Reasoner's contributions (or lack thereof). The upgrades that will make or break the Isles' success (or any club for that matter) next season are ones to the top six forward unit/top four defense corps.

Ideally, you want someone to replace Frans Nielsen as the second line center, allowing him to slot back to a more natural 3C role. At this point in time, I don't believe Strome is ready to do that. "Upgrading" on Reasoner simply means your 4th line is more productive, but you've still got a massive hole on your 2nd line.
Really annoying that one of the very few people with any sense on these boards ISN'T an Islander fan.

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03-05-2013, 12:49 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Good points. I'm optimistic Strome will make a good pro and I like how his game has evolved. I truly hope Wang and Snow are able to bring in 1-2 solid forwards and 1-2 solid dmen and a goalie before Strome, Nelson and Nino are NHLers.
But what do you think the odds are that he will?

At, above, or below 50/50? I am trying to keep an open mind, but then things like the TT trade happen... and we don't add an actual player who plays now... It is going to be an interesting summer.


Last edited by PWJunior: 03-05-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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03-05-2013, 05:26 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
While that's true, I don't think it's exaggerating to suggest that the Isles' problems go far beyond Reasoner's contributions (or lack thereof). The upgrades that will make or break the Isles' success (or any club for that matter) next season are ones to the top six forward unit/top four defense corps.

Ideally, you want someone to replace Frans Nielsen as the second line center, allowing him to slot back to a more natural 3C role. At this point in time, I don't believe Strome is ready to do that. "Upgrading" on Reasoner simply means your 4th line is more productive, but you've still got a massive hole on your 2nd line.
I think Strome may be ready. The problem is, you can't count on that. Ideally, the Isles would bring in a top-6 forward capable of playing wing or center. If Strome is ready to take the 2nd line center spot great, if not no worries. Unfortunately, the Isles don't really seem to work that way.

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03-05-2013, 08:49 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
But what do you think the odds are that he will?

At, above, or below 50/50? I am trying to keep an open mind, but then things like the TT trade happen... and we don't add an actual player who plays now... It is going to be an interesting summer.
I find it hard to understand why Wang would want to own a team that is such a failure and an embarrassment throughout the sports world. You'd think that out of sheer ego or pride, that I'd think most/all millionaires have, he'd have the smarts/pride to hire competency and invest just enough to give the team a chance.

With the pending move to Brooklyn, I'd like to think Wang would love to leave the NVMC with a huge splash after a decade of disaster. And why not go into Brooklyn with a team that's already "ahead". The incremental dollars between "below the cap" and mid-cap isn't that much difference, relatively speaking. Yet, the team would be SO MUCH MORE successful with just a few NHL players, they already have a solid base of players.

As a fan, I believe he owes Long Island MORE than he owes Brooklyn.

Long Island is his home/community, he (at one time) was looked to have "saved" the franchise.....well, why rescue someone from drowning if you plan on holding their head under water in the bathtub?

So who knows.....50/50? I'm not that optimistic, been disappointed for far too long.

Common sense means these guys should make a splash. Cap going down across the league, Isles moving to Brooklyn, "rebuild" already has enough emerging prospects that need to come into a winning environment......the stars are aligning.....so we shall see.

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03-05-2013, 08:54 AM
  #310
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Really annoying that one of the very few people with any sense on these boards ISN'T an Islander fan.
If he'll work cheap, and I mean, below the cap floor cheap, we should hire SDK as the assistant GM.

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03-05-2013, 09:39 AM
  #311
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Waiver Reasoner or send Aucoin down and call up Nelson
You guys talk as if the Islanders are actually trying to do EVERYTHING to make the playoffs this year.

But that clearly ain't the goal.

If it were to happen by chance with the group they have now, then that's a cherry on top.

But to think any moves other than the many waiver wire pick-ups and the signing of Martinek on the heals of the Visnovsky and Boyes additions is, well, wishful thinking on fan behalf.

By the way folks, do you really think a kid like Nelson could come up and turn things around here? Do you really think he's so good one year removed from college, that he'll add more than a 10 year checking line pro? Do you really think that after already pulling up Cizikas and Ullstrom for what looks like the long haul, and adding bubble player Aucoin to the mix, that they did this to 'fast track' a guy like Nelson to the bigs, much less a guy like Niederreiter. They didn't have them in for a day during the mini-camp in January.

I dunno guys. Gotta think that the best thing for our few remaining 'prospects' down on the farm is to battle through diversity in the AHL and learn to win there while playing PP, PK and in other critical situations.

That of course would be a universally accepted notion if Snow had actually bothered putting together a team that competes on the Island - and of course if the midrange guys this team invests in (namely Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen and Bailey) were more capable of doing what's necessary to make this team compete.

Would anyone here be clamoring for the rushing of AHL rookies if the following even had the following numbers:
Okposo 5-10-15
Grabner 12-6-18
Nielsen 4-14-18
Bailey 4-8-12

Those few extra stats alone at this point would surely have given this team an extra 3-5 victories.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 03-05-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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Old
03-05-2013, 09:44 AM
  #312
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Any word on Scott Mayfield? He's on his second season in Denver, will be 21 in October, maybe possible to play in Bridgeport next season?

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03-05-2013, 09:45 AM
  #313
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Any word on Scott Mayfield? He's on his second season in Denver, will be 21 in October, maybe possible to play in Bridgeport next season?
No word. Gotta think he'll stay one more year in Denver. This season has been ok, but in no way a 'break out' year.

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03-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
No word. Gotta think he'll stay one more year in Denver. This season has been ok, but in no way a 'break out' year.
I think the key with Mayfield is, how is he playing DEFENSE. I don't think a 1-10 point increase would mean he had a breakout year, if his defensive play was worse than the prior year. Unfortunately, it's hard to find info on how well (or poor) he is playing defense. I think the offense will come eventually. The guy has excellent skating skills, and excellent hands.

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03-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I think the key with Mayfield is, how is he playing DEFENSE. I don't think a 1-10 point increase would mean he had a breakout year, if his defensive play was worse than the prior year. Unfortunately, it's hard to find info on how well (or poor) he is playing defense. I think the offense will come eventually. The guy has excellent skating skills, and excellent hands.
From the little I've seen from Mayfield and Denver, I think he'll be back there for his Junior season. While he hasn't been doing anything outstanding, he has excellent tools. The defense on his team is pretty stacked with a crazy amount of offense generated from the blue line. He should have a bigger role next season and could be their top pairing d-man. I think that would be best for his development.

Sign him then and insert into the SoundTigers lineup. I think he could be a good 3rd pairing guy with his size, mobility, and physicality. He does have the upside to be more, but I'd rather wait and see how he does in professional hockey before making that determination. I think he's still 2-3 years away from making an impact.

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03-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
From the little I've seen from Mayfield and Denver, I think he'll be back there for his Junior season. While he hasn't been doing anything outstanding, he has excellent tools. The defense on his team is pretty stacked with a crazy amount of offense generated from the blue line. He should have a bigger role next season and could be their top pairing d-man. I think that would be best for his development.

Sign him then and insert into the SoundTigers lineup. I think he could be a good 3rd pairing guy with his size, mobility, and physicality. He does have the upside to be more, but I'd rather wait and see how he does in professional hockey before making that determination. I think he's still 2-3 years away from making an impact.
I agree with you, another year at Denver, a full year at Bridgeport, and then maybe he'll be ready. I love everything about the style of hockey he plays though, very excited about his future.

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03-05-2013, 11:42 AM
  #317
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You guys talk as if the Islanders are actually trying to do EVERYTHING to make the playoffs this year.

But that clearly ain't the goal.

If it were to happen by chance with the group they have now, then that's a cherry on top.

But to think any moves other than the many waiver wire pick-ups and the signing of Martinek on the heals of the Visnovsky and Boyes additions is, well, wishful thinking on fan behalf.

By the way folks, do you really think a kid like Nelson could come up and turn things around here? Do you really think he's so good one year removed from college, that he'll add more than a 10 year checking line pro? Do you really think that after already pulling up Cizikas and Ullstrom for what looks like the long haul, and adding bubble player Aucoin to the mix, that they did this to 'fast track' a guy like Nelson to the bigs, much less a guy like Niederreiter. They didn't have them in for a day during the mini-camp in January.

I dunno guys. Gotta think that the best thing for our few remaining 'prospects' down on the farm is to battle through diversity in the AHL and learn to win there while playing PP, PK and in other critical situations.

That of course would be a universally accepted notion if Snow had actually bothered putting together a team that competes on the Island - and of course if the midrange guys this team invests in (namely Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen and Bailey) were more capable of doing what's necessary to make this team compete.

Would anyone here be clamoring for the rushing of AHL rookies if the following even had the following numbers:
Okposo 5-10-15
Grabner 12-6-18
Nielsen 4-14-18
Bailey 4-8-12

Those few extra stats alone at this point would surely have given this team an extra 3-5 victories.
Reasoner is horrible. He is a liability on the ice. He isnt even good defensively anymore because he cant keep up. Yes, I think Nelson could come in and easily out compete Reasoner. I have no problem with a rookie coming up and taking over limited minutes. At least bring him up and have a look. It is embarassing watching Reasoner play.

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03-05-2013, 11:49 AM
  #318
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I could see Reasoner being replaced by Sundstrom next year and may even see Perrson in the lineup for at least a few games too.

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03-05-2013, 11:55 AM
  #319
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I could see Reasoner being replaced by Sundstrom next year and may even see Perrson in the lineup for at least a few games too.
Id be more then happy if they tried this...Try something. Very hard to watch the same team, game in game out, and try nothing different.

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03-05-2013, 12:46 PM
  #320
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I find it hard to understand why Wang would want to own a team that is such a failure and an embarrassment throughout the sports world. You'd think that out of sheer ego or pride, that I'd think most/all millionaires have, he'd have the smarts/pride to hire competency and invest just enough to give the team a chance.

With the pending move to Brooklyn, I'd like to think Wang would love to leave the NVMC with a huge splash after a decade of disaster. And why not go into Brooklyn with a team that's already "ahead". The incremental dollars between "below the cap" and mid-cap isn't that much difference, relatively speaking. Yet, the team would be SO MUCH MORE successful with just a few NHL players, they already have a solid base of players.

As a fan, I believe he owes Long Island MORE than he owes Brooklyn.

Long Island is his home/community, he (at one time) was looked to have "saved" the franchise.....well, why rescue someone from drowning if you plan on holding their head under water in the bathtub?

So who knows.....50/50? I'm not that optimistic, been disappointed for far too long.

Common sense means these guys should make a splash. Cap going down across the league, Isles moving to Brooklyn, "rebuild" already has enough emerging prospects that need to come into a winning environment......the stars are aligning.....so we shall see.
You did a great job of summing my feelings, and your comparison to saving a drowning man just so you can do him in yourself... a perfect analogy. To me it points to him selling, but what I don't get is how he won't even further develop Tavares. If I was going to sell the club I would make the small investment in at least him by giving him a one good wing t maximize his value. So yeah, I stand confused as well.

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03-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #321
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I agree with you, another year at Denver, a full year at Bridgeport, and then maybe he'll be ready. I love everything about the style of hockey he plays though, very excited about his future.
I think we all thought Donovan would spend a third year at Denver and he left after his Sophomore season to join the Bridge and I do not think this has hurt his development. I do agree that I don't think he is ready for the NHL and Denver or the Bridge is fine with me. And yes, really excited about what he brings to the table and to see how well it translates to the NHL.

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03-05-2013, 01:17 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
You guys talk as if the Islanders are actually trying to do EVERYTHING to make the playoffs this year.

But that clearly ain't the goal.

If it were to happen by chance with the group they have now, then that's a cherry on top.

But to think any moves other than the many waiver wire pick-ups and the signing of Martinek on the heals of the Visnovsky and Boyes additions is, well, wishful thinking on fan behalf.

By the way folks, do you really think a kid like Nelson could come up and turn things around here? Do you really think he's so good one year removed from college, that he'll add more than a 10 year checking line pro? Do you really think that after already pulling up Cizikas and Ullstrom for what looks like the long haul, and adding bubble player Aucoin to the mix, that they did this to 'fast track' a guy like Nelson to the bigs, much less a guy like Niederreiter. They didn't have them in for a day during the mini-camp in January.

I dunno guys. Gotta think that the best thing for our few remaining 'prospects' down on the farm is to battle through diversity in the AHL and learn to win there while playing PP, PK and in other critical situations.

That of course would be a universally accepted notion if Snow had actually bothered putting together a team that competes on the Island - and of course if the midrange guys this team invests in (namely Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen and Bailey) were more capable of doing what's necessary to make this team compete.

Would anyone here be clamoring for the rushing of AHL rookies if the following even had the following numbers:
Okposo 5-10-15
Grabner 12-6-18
Nielsen 4-14-18
Bailey 4-8-12

Those few extra stats alone at this point would surely have given this team an extra 3-5 victories.
I don't think it's about Brock Nelson or Nino Niederreiter turning this team around(although, it would be nice to see an influx of youth spark the rest of the team), it's about getting these guys some NHL experience in a wasted season, so you get a better understanding of what you have or don't have next season.

I also wouldn't call promoting kids like Nino or Nelson at this point as "fast tracking". They are both top-prospects. Borderline "elite" prospects. They are both having successful AHL seasons. There are a handful of open spots at the NHL level.

If we continue to hover around the same spot in the standings, I wouldn't mind seeing both of these guys up here for the last month/month and a half of the season.

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03-05-2013, 01:22 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I don't think it's about Brock Nelson or Nino Niederreiter turning this team around(although, it would be nice to see an influx of youth spark the rest of the team), it's about getting these guys some NHL experience in a wasted season, so you get a better understanding of what you have or don't have next season.

I also wouldn't call promoting kids like Nino or Nelson at this point as "fast tracking". They are both top-prospects. Borderline "elite" prospects. They are both having successful AHL seasons. There are a handful of open spots at the NHL level.

If we continue to hover around the same spot in the standings, I wouldn't mind seeing both of these guys up here for the last month/month and a half of the season.
And to add to that, they are both 2 1/2 years post draft. How is that "fast tracking" ?

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03-05-2013, 02:01 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I don't think it's about Brock Nelson or Nino Niederreiter turning this team around(although, it would be nice to see an influx of youth spark the rest of the team), it's about getting these guys some NHL experience in a wasted season, so you get a better understanding of what you have or don't have next season.

I also wouldn't call promoting kids like Nino or Nelson at this point as "fast tracking". They are both top-prospects. Borderline "elite" prospects. They are both having successful AHL seasons. There are a handful of open spots at the NHL level.

If we continue to hover around the same spot in the standings, I wouldn't mind seeing both of these guys up here for the last month/month and a half of the season.
I think it would be a smart decision to call up Nelson and Nino after the trade deadline and give them a cup of coffee this year in the NHL. Both will be competing next year for a top 9 role if not top 6 and a little NHL action in 2012-2013 season might help them to better prepare over the summer for the 2013-2014 season in my opinion

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03-05-2013, 02:09 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramatanboy View Post
I think it would be a smart decision to call up Nelson and Nino after the trade deadline and give them a cup of coffee this year in the NHL. Both will be competing next year for a top 9 role if not top 6 and a little NHL action in 2012-2013 season might help them to better prepare over the summer for the 2013-2014 season in my opinion


IF (they will be) the Isles are sellers at the deadline, this will be a foregone conclusion, Nelson, Niederreiter and Donovan will probably be called up. Reasoner, Vis, Streit, Nabby and Bailey (one year contract ?) could be gone at the trade deadline.

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