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It's shakeup time

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Old
03-05-2013, 12:16 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
I can't see this ownership group doing anything about Trotz or Poile. They continue to gush about how Poile is the best GM in the league and Trotz is the best coach in the league. They have too much admiration\respect to shorten their leashes. It's a similar situation to what was going on in Buffalo until this season. The problem is that Cigarran and Fritch, the two mouthpieces, acknowledge that their more hockey fan than hockey mind. Their assumption is that the issue is player related, and that Poile\Trotz are the team to fix it.

Maybe they're right, maybe they're not.
that gushing will cease as soon as attendance falls and the financial losses mount.

even though they bought this team out of community spirit they are still businessmen and will eventually intervene if the business begins to fail.

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03-05-2013, 12:17 PM
  #77
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apparently Roman Hamrlik was just placed on waivers. I wonder if Poile is going to jump on that as well. Not that we need a D, but it seems as if he's willing to take any freebee at the moment.

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03-05-2013, 12:21 PM
  #78
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I agree with much of what is being said on here- I have been trying to stay positive, but I admit it- I have just about lost hope for this season.

I will say this- I think the “fire Trotz and Poile” talk is premature.

We have had 7 straight very successful seasons- 100+ points in 4 of 7 years and one of the few franchises with 40+ wins in 7 straight seasons. And we are coming off one of the best seasons in franchise history.

Yep, this season has completely sucked. But we are barely 6 weeks into a strike shortened season. And as horrendous as we have looked, we are still somehow, someway, still in the playoff hunt. We are 9-9-5, not 3-15-5. If we were to win the two home games this weekend we would be right back in the hunt. And I will also point out that last year after 27 games our record (12-11-4) was about the same as it is right now- many on here were calling for firings then, too- and we only went on to have one of the best seasons in franchise history.

If we were sitting here with a history of losing (ala Blue Jackets, Islanders, or even the long gone Thrashers (11 years with 0 playoff wins and 1 playoff appearance- try that on for size) THEN I would be right on board with firing everybody and blowing it up. But having 7 straight great seasons followed by a month and a half of .500 hockey is not enough to fire anyone- YET.

I guess I am in the vast minority, but Trotz and Poile have earned the right to have the chance to turn this around. But the clock is ticking. One of the problems with having the same coach for a long period of time is eventually (and usually much sooner than has happened here) things get stale- maybe that time is coming (or is already here).

Just to be clear, I am not trying to say everything is fine- it most definitely is not- changes need to happen, both now, at the trade deadline, and most definitely in the offseason.

But as some others have said, I am willing to ride out this weird, strike shortened season and see what happens. If this winds up being a down year, so be it- maybe we can luck out and get a top 5 pick in the draft and go all in during the offseason for adding offensive help. Ownership needs to put their money where their mouth is- they HAVE to spend some $$ in the offseason- period. If we are still sitting in a similar position a month into NEXT season, then it is truly time to clean house.

The thing I hate about all of this is the timing- attendance, fan support, interest in the team and hockey in Nashville is at an all time high. We needed a season like last year and another playoff run to capitalize on all the excitement and interest- instead, it looks like we may be headed for our worst season in a long time- really a shame. Whatever happens this season, I just hope it won’t slow the momentum of the franchise too much……………..

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03-05-2013, 12:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
Here's the full article from the Mayor on Trotz's comments last night.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2013/03/preda...cting-changes/
the whole article is a lot more bening sounding than the sound bite quote made it seem.

Trotz was basically saying nobody felt any pressure to keep their job because we have nobody on the bench.

I didnt see that as trotz calling for wholesale changes....

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03-05-2013, 12:36 PM
  #80
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DRW your right on many points this could be a missed chance just as the lost season was right after the teams first appearance in the playoffs. Fan support has fluctuated since day one. The newess the first couple years carried the team then interest dropped. A couple years of runs falling just short of making the playoffs and finally making it in. Then a lost season. Last years success can be lost even in this short season. The team is very lucky to have the 23 points they have right now. And if adding these two players lights a fire under the team they could still make it to the post season. If not the fan support will dip. Having seen every game this team has played since day one I have never seen them jut quit like the third period last night. There are some serious issues that have to be fixed. QUICK

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03-05-2013, 12:46 PM
  #81
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you show me a GM that will give a 3rd round pick for 2 goals and 7 assists, numerous turnovers, weak play on the boards, and a fear to shoot and I will show you a soon to be ****canned GM.
Kostitsyn's trade value definitely isn't where it was the past 2 seasons, but he is definitely still worth a 3rd round pick. He's projecting to finish about 10 points below where he normally should for an 82 game season. There certainly is a GM out there who would take a flyer on Kostitsyn for a 3rd round pick.

Poile traded a 4th for Dustin Boyd.

Anaheim traded a 3rd for Brad Winchester.

We gave up a 1st for Paul Gaustad.

GM's make ridiculous trades every year. Look at how many sellers there are going to be come trade deadline. Hardly any.

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03-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
I agree with much of what is being said on here- I have been trying to stay positive, but I admit it- I have just about lost hope for this season.

I will say this- I think the “fire Trotz and Poile” talk is premature.

We have had 7 straight very successful seasons- 100+ points in 4 of 7 years and one of the few franchises with 40+ wins in 7 straight seasons. And we are coming off one of the best seasons in franchise history.

Yep, this season has completely sucked. But we are barely 6 weeks into a strike shortened season. And as horrendous as we have looked, we are still somehow, someway, still in the playoff hunt. We are 9-9-5, not 3-15-5. If we were to win the two home games this weekend we would be right back in the hunt. And I will also point out that last year after 27 games our record (12-11-4) was about the same as it is right now- many on here were calling for firings then, too- and we only went on to have one of the best seasons in franchise history.

If we were sitting here with a history of losing (ala Blue Jackets, Islanders, or even the long gone Thrashers (11 years with 0 playoff wins and 1 playoff appearance- try that on for size) THEN I would be right on board with firing everybody and blowing it up. But having 7 straight great seasons followed by a month and a half of .500 hockey is not enough to fire anyone- YET.
I guess I am in the vast minority, but Trotz and Poile have earned the right to have the chance to turn this around. But the clock is ticking. One of the problems with having the same coach for a long period of time is eventually (and usually much sooner than has happened here) things get stale- maybe that time is coming (or is already here).

Just to be clear, I am not trying to say everything is fine- it most definitely is not- changes need to happen, both now, at the trade deadline, and most definitely in the offseason.

But as some others have said, I am willing to ride out this weird, strike shortened season and see what happens. If this winds up being a down year, so be it- maybe we can luck out and get a top 5 pick in the draft and go all in during the offseason for adding offensive help. Ownership needs to put their money where their mouth is- they HAVE to spend some $$ in the offseason- period. If we are still sitting in a similar position a month into NEXT season, then it is truly time to clean house.

The thing I hate about all of this is the timing- attendance, fan support, interest in the team and hockey in Nashville is at an all time high. We needed a season like last year and another playoff run to capitalize on all the excitement and interest- instead, it looks like we may be headed for our worst season in a long time- really a shame. Whatever happens this season, I just hope it won’t slow the momentum of the franchise too much……………..
At what point though does just making the playoffs or getting past the first round become a disappointment. I mean look at the Braves from 1991-2005, 14 division titles, 5 National League titles, 1 World Series title. Sure some people will say well they were consistant in making the playoffs and yeah they were but that shouldn't be the standard.

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03-05-2013, 01:00 PM
  #83
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DRW, you say Poile and Trotz should be given the opp to turn it around. Turn it around to what? A team that makes the playoffs year in and year out then flops? Consistency is great but when you're consistently average that's not saying much. Growth is what we're after and I'm not seeing it. The same lines, the same strategies but now we're not getting the most out of our guys. That's not good.

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03-05-2013, 01:01 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GwtGlads2013 View Post
At what point though does just making the playoffs or getting past the first round become a disappointment. I mean look at the Braves from 1991-2005, 14 division titles, 5 National League titles, 1 World Series title. Sure some people will say well they were consistant in making the playoffs and yeah they were but that shouldn't be the standard.
This is an argument Predators fans have been having for ten years. There's a big group that look at the way Poile\Trotz have consistently taken a team with low budget and low expecations and made the playoffs.

Then the other group looks at years like 06/07 and even 11/12, and wonders how the hell it could have gone so wrong.

I personally think there comes a point when the message becomes stale, and you have to try something else.

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03-05-2013, 01:03 PM
  #85
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I think you do what you can to make the playoffs. A hot streak can happen to almost any playoff team.

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03-05-2013, 01:26 PM
  #86
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Wison- Borque- Butler
Gaustad- Boychuk- Erat
Fish-Hornqvist-Leggy on wing
Last line whoever you do not want to scratch

There is not 1st 2nd or 3rd line play equal minutes.
Two lines with a guy that will get in front of the net the other an experimental line that should be tried to produce goals. Not sure what this would cost defensively but losing 3-2would be better than the abortion from last night.

Theres a pratice scheduled tomorrow at 1pm. May have to make the trip to see what lines Trotz puts iut.


Last edited by Byrddog: 03-05-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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03-05-2013, 02:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
Wison- Borque- Butler
Gaustad- Boychuk- Erat
Fish-Hornqvist-Leggy on wing
Last line whoever you do not want to scratch

There is not 1st 2nd or 3rd line play equal minutes.
Two lines with a guy that will get in front of the net the other an experimental line that should be tried to produce goals. Not sure what this would cost defensively but losing 3-2would be better than the abortion from last night.

Theres a pratice scheduled tomorrow at 1pm. May have to make the trip to see what lines Trotz puts iut.
Uh, Smith?

He's not exactly burning up the scoresheet, but he's the best puck handler we have by a mile, and he produces better chances than just about anyone on the team. He needs to be on the first two lines.

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03-05-2013, 02:27 PM
  #88
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Uh, Smith?

He's not exactly burning up the scoresheet, but he's the best puck handler we have by a mile, and he produces better chances than just about anyone on the team. He needs to be on the first two lines.
I am not a Smith fan. At best I see him as a 3rd liner. I have read his scouting reports. Looked at his stats from 2004 to today. Watching his play I agree with his speed and occosional puck handling ability. His shooting ability is truly lacking. He put up half a point a game last year, given. Currently he has a confidence problem, he is unproven if you look at the minutes he has been given this year and last he has been given a shot at producing. He has not held up this season. Is it the linemates ? that could well have somethin to do with it. But 5 points in 23 games and a -5 earns a reduction in playing time on a team that is struggling.

He may be better than I think but he is not as good as most here think either.

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03-05-2013, 02:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
I am not a Smith fan. At best I see him as a 3rd liner. I have read his scouting reports. Looked at his stats from 2004 to today. Watching his play I agree with his speed and occosional puck handling ability. His shooting ability is truly lacking. He put up half a point a game last year, given. Currently he has a confidence problem, he is unproven if you look at the minutes he has been given this year and last he has been given a shot at producing. He has not held up this season. Is it the linemates ? that could well have somethin to do with it. But 5 points in 23 games and a -5 earns a reduction in playing time on a team that is struggling.

He may be better than I think but he is not as good as most here think either.
Sure, on any normal team I might agree with you. You certainly wouldn't put Smith ahead of proven goal scorers.

But who do we have that's proven to produce better this year? Gaustad and Erat are invisible. Butler and Boycheck have potential and hopefully will quickly help, but they weren't waived and in the AHL for no reason, so that might be wishful thinking. Fisher and Leggy are horrible.

Smith, Borque and Wilson are the best we've got at the moment. I certainly would be onboard with bringing in a proven scorer, but I don't see that happening. Might as well give top minutes to the guys who are producing the most, even if it's just good chances. Good chances are better complete-fail followed by turnover.

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03-05-2013, 02:36 PM
  #90
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I say we take a look at the Avs Paul Statsny. They signed O'Reilly at center and that may make Statsny expendable, albeit for a price. He is young (26) a top 6 and can score at almost a ppg. He is signed for this yr and next at a cap hit and salary of 6.6m/per. I have read that they may look to move him.

I say lets see what they are asking/interested...

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03-05-2013, 02:40 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
Here's the full article from the Mayor on Trotz's comments last night.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2013/03/preda...cting-changes/
Holy crap another distant cousin posting!

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03-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GwtGlads2013 View Post
At what point though does just making the playoffs or getting past the first round become a disappointment. I mean look at the Braves from 1991-2005, 14 division titles, 5 National League titles, 1 World Series title. Sure some people will say well they were consistant in making the playoffs and yeah they were but that shouldn't be the standard.
Well, I am also a Braves fan and I know too well about their playoff disappointment- but it’s comparing apples and oranges.

The Braves were a huge post season failure, the main reason being in almost every one of their playoff years, they were the prohibitive favorite to win the World Series, and still failed almost every year. That was painful.

How many of the past 7 years have the Predators really been expected to win the Cup? If the Preds were a #1 seed 7 straight years and never made the Finals, I would be screaming about it, too.

For a franchise that isn’t even 20 years old, their level of success is pretty darn good, but many on here act like they are pulling for the Atlanta Thrashers.

The Predators have been a playoff team almost every year, and were a true contender for a couple of them. There are a bunch of NHL franchises that would trade the last 7 years with us.

All I want is a competitive team that makes the playoffs most years and one that can occasionally be a true Cup contender. There are no guarantees in the playoffs- Pittsburgh was the #1 seed and the odds on favorite to win the Cup last year and got bounced in the first round. Same for Vancouver- bounced in first round.

I just think there are many on here who have unrealistic expectations- win the Cup or the season is a failure.

I’ve said this before, if I just woke up from a coma and had no knowledge of how the franchise had been doing and read these boards, I would swear the Predators were on a long playoff drought…..

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03-05-2013, 02:48 PM
  #93
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Sure, on any normal team I might agree with you. You certainly wouldn't put Smith ahead of proven goal scorers.

But who do we have that's proven to produce better this year? Gaustad and Erat are invisible. Butler and Boycheck have potential and hopefully will quickly help, but they weren't waived and in the AHL for no reason, so that might be wishful thinking. Fisher and Leggy are horrible.

Smith, Borque and Wilson are the best we've got at the moment. I certainly would be onboard with bringing in a proven scorer, but I don't see that happening. Might as well give top minutes to the guys who are producing the most, even if it's just good chances. Good chances are better complete-fail followed by turnover.
Erat has is stuck in nowhere land but has the ability to put the puck in the net. Gaustad deserves a bigger role. People ***** about his salary but he is doing his job over 60% at the dot has done a decent job on the PK no worse than others and most important he is willing to put his body in front of the net. He could be as effective as Holmstrom was if given the chance or he could tank and be put back to 4th line. Yes Fish and Leggy are horrid but theres no way to move them really, I don't see anyone that ould jump at there salary facing the cap drop next season. Leggy has shown in the past he can be effective on the wing. If they do not work out put them in the scratch list and give there minutes to someone else.

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03-05-2013, 02:48 PM
  #94
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drwpreds - do not lie about the braves. they were not favorites to win it all every year. certainly not after the turn of the century.. they were good teams that couldn't break into greatness every season. i see a lot of similarities between the two. definitely the 06-07 team and last 2 seasons... braves had a lot of seasons where they weren't the favorite to even win the division series like us in our first round..

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03-05-2013, 02:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
This is an argument Predators fans have been having for ten years. There's a big group that look at the way Poile\Trotz have consistently taken a team with low budget and low expecations and made the playoffs.

Then the other group looks at years like 06/07 and even 11/12, and wonders how the hell it could have gone so wrong.
I personally think there comes a point when the message becomes stale, and you have to try something else.
So when you look back at last season, you wonder "how it could have gone so wrong?"

A 104 point season, knocking out Detroit in 5 games in Round 1, and losing in round 2 is "going so wrong"??

So, I guess its win the Cup or the season is a bust? I just don't get that.

I will take a year like last year's every year- as I said in another post, the playoffs are a total crapshoot, no matter how good you are- just ask Pittsburgh and Vancouver- #1 seeds and the overwhelming favorites to win the Cup last year- both knocked out in round 1........

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03-05-2013, 02:52 PM
  #96
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Erat has is stuck in nowhere land but has the ability to put the puck in the net. Gaustad deserves a bigger role. People ***** about his salary but he is doing his job over 60% at the dot has done a decent job on the PK no worse than others and most important he is willing to put his body in front of the net. He could be as effective as Holmstrom was if given the chance or he could tank and be put back to 4th line. Yes Fish and Leggy are horrid but theres no way to move them really, I don't see anyone that ould jump at there salary facing the cap drop next season. Leggy has shown in the past he can be effective on the wing. If they do not work out put them in the scratch list and give there minutes to someone else.
i don't agree with expanding a guy like gaustad's role while decreasing guys like smith's role. we need to be giving the young guys time to develop and play. bring up some guys from Milwaukee. we are nowhere near a contender. gaustad on the PP or increased ice time won't solve nothing. like shine on a turd. smith however could be part of the solution 1-2 years down the road if developed and given the chance to succeed .. this means giving smith top 6 time along with wilson (duh) and 1st unit PP time over guys like farquaad and invisible man.. like no neck would ever do that

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03-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #97
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we need to ACTUALLY spend to cap to compete in this league. It's the truth!
This is why Suter/Weber signed elsewhere.

and the CBA of course.

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03-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #98
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drwpreds - do not lie about the braves. they were not favorites to win it all every year. certainly not after the turn of the century.. they were good teams that couldn't break into greatness every season. i see a lot of similarities between the two. definitely the 06-07 team and last 2 seasons... braves had a lot of seasons where they weren't the favorite to even win the division series like us in our first round..
Nonecks- not to turn this into baseball talk- but I am a die hard Braves fan- I may have overstated it by saying "almost every year" but they were the favorite or one of 2 or 3 favorites more years than not- only in the latter stages of their playoff run were they really just an average team. I just don't see the similarities at all- the Predators have never had a team as good as the Braves 90's teams were.

But as I keep saying, there are no gaurantees in the playoffs, no matter how good you are- and the Braves are exhibit A of that theory.

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03-05-2013, 03:02 PM
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i don't agree with expanding a guy like gaustad's role while decreasing guys like smith's role. we need to be giving the young guys time to develop and play. bring up some guys from Milwaukee. we are nowhere near a contender. gaustad on the PP or increased ice time won't solve nothing. like shine on a turd. smith however could be part of the solution 1-2 years down the road if developed and given the chance to succeed .. this means giving smith top 6 time along with wilson (duh) and 1st unit PP time over guys like farquaad and invisible man.. like no neck would ever do that
Smith has a better chance to be out of the league in two years than he has to be a top 6 guy here or anywhere in the league. I get it theres alot of people who like him. What I do not get is reading his scouting reports completly mirrors what has happened with his play and folks just want to expand his role. His minutes have been increased, stsrting in the last quarter of last year and this year. If we had a true first line that could carry the team on many of the nights it would allow time for Smith to develop on a second or 3rd line. This team does not have that and to think you can out hm in The 1st line role to develop is a recipe for even further disaster for him. I sid it before he may be better than I project him but he is nowhere near the caliber most here think he is.

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03-05-2013, 03:08 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by drwpreds View Post
Nonecks- not to turn this into baseball talk- but I am a die hard Braves fan- I may have overstated it by saying "almost every year" but they were the favorite or one of 2 or 3 favorites more years than not- only in the latter stages of their playoff run were they really just an average team. I just don't see the similarities at all- the Predators have never had a team as good as the Braves 90's teams were.

But as I keep saying, there are no gaurantees in the playoffs, no matter how good you are- and the Braves are exhibit A of that theory.
im talking towards the latter years... where they were expected to be oust in the divisional playoffs every year.

we have been very fortunate for an expansion franchise but we are no longer that. that title was gone after the lockout imo.. we need a shakeup as this thread says.. we tried with a quick fix last year in ak46 and rads.. its time for a long term solution now

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