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Arbitration ruining hockey

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07-23-2006, 02:20 PM
  #1
toshiro
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Arbitration ruining hockey

Before the lock out it was arbitration ruining hockey now it is doing the same. When a player like Briere is paid 5 million for 130 goals in 400 games it is obvious that salaries will be ratchet ed up by comparisons made to the highest comparabe even if figures for comparable based on impeneding free agency.

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07-23-2006, 02:23 PM
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Doesn't matter.

Individual cases will look stupid, but the overall team-by-team cap will still control salaries. If too many players get large judgements, they'll end up UFAs that will have to take half as much as they were awarded, so the system will end up regulating itself.

The only way it would have caused a real problem is if teams could accept arbritration rulings outside the cap (like those idiotic exemptions in NFL and NBA); that's what ruins caps.

Sucks for the Sabres to lose Briere (if they do deal him/let him go), but in the end it won't change the overall financial picture, and that's what is important longterm.

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07-23-2006, 02:26 PM
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It doesn't matter. Salaries are linked to revenues so it doesn't matter how much the players are getting payed with regards to the leagues health and with a cap in place it gets rid of the New York Rangers of old with their ludicrous spending.

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07-23-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
It doesn't matter. Salaries are linked to revenues so it doesn't matter how much the players are getting payed with regards to the leagues health and with a cap in place it gets rid of the New York Rangers of old with their ludicrous spending.
Absolutely correct.

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07-23-2006, 02:29 PM
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Wrong...Slaries are linked to revenues. But it will ovioulsy take a few years before a good equilibrium is reached.

And Brière was on pace for a pace for a 100 point season the new NHL was made for him.

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07-23-2006, 02:52 PM
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After seeing Brière bring his team that far into the playoffs, I think he's totally worth the 5M

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07-23-2006, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Riel View Post
After seeing Brière bring his team that far into the playoffs, I think he's totally worth the 5M
Except that Briere wasn't the leader on that team throughout the playoffs.

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07-23-2006, 03:01 PM
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The contracts given by the Referee are in line with the current market. As long as there is a cap there should'nt be such whining about the salaries.

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07-23-2006, 03:01 PM
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Yeah Briere is a good player and all but i dont think he's worth 5mil at all its pathetic

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07-23-2006, 03:39 PM
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Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
And Brière was on pace for a pace for a 100 point season the new NHL was made for him.
What Briere was on pace for shouldn't come into play. If we are going to base a guys salary on what "may" happen then many guys deserve 5 million. Hell if i had 10 points in 10 games, i guess i should get 5 million to because over a course of a season, i'd have 82 points.

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07-23-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer View Post
Doesn't matter.

Individual cases will look stupid, but the overall team-by-team cap will still control salaries. If too many players get large judgements, they'll end up UFAs that will have to take half as much as they were awarded, so the system will end up regulating itself.

The only way it would have caused a real problem is if teams could accept arbritration rulings outside the cap (like those idiotic exemptions in NFL and NBA); that's what ruins caps.

Sucks for the Sabres to lose Briere (if they do deal him/let him go), but in the end it won't change the overall financial picture, and that's what is important longterm.
Exactly. If arbitration ends up causing headaches, then it's only because NHL GMs choose to let that happen.

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07-23-2006, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
What Briere was on pace for shouldn't come into play. If we are going to base a guys salary on what "may" happen then many guys deserve 5 million. Hell if i had 10 points in 10 games, i guess i should get 5 million to because over a course of a season, i'd have 82 points.
Agreed, hell, Higgins had 24 points in the last 26 games of the season and he's 22, and his salary is below 1 M a year.

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07-23-2006, 04:30 PM
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Arbitration is fine with me, as far as i'm concerned : they decide a resonable amount for each player, please respect the arbitration!

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07-23-2006, 04:31 PM
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i said before there going to need to expand the leauge just to find a place for all these 5 million dollar players to play

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07-23-2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
What Briere was on pace for shouldn't come into play. If we are going to base a guys salary on what "may" happen then many guys deserve 5 million. Hell if i had 10 points in 10 games, i guess i should get 5 million to because over a course of a season, i'd have 82 points.
It's factor that among others that has to be considered. The player pleads his case and says...I had 58 points in 48 games that's more then 1 ppg. And he still would have been 2nd on montreal for goals even if he nearly missed half the year. If you dont want to factor this...then I want to be in the same fantasy league as you.

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07-23-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
What Briere was on pace for shouldn't come into play. If we are going to base a guys salary on what "may" happen then many guys deserve 5 million. Hell if i had 10 points in 10 games, i guess i should get 5 million to because over a course of a season, i'd have 82 points.
Briere played 66 games last season including playoffs for 77pts. In comparison Kovalev played 75 games (with playoffs) for 72 pts.

So if Kovy is worth 4.5 I don't think it's too far streched to give 5millions to Briere.

The new NHL is perfect for players like Briere: fast and creative

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07-23-2006, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
It's factor that among others that has to be considered. The player pleads his case and says...I had 58 points in 48 games that's more then 1 ppg. And he still would have been 2nd on montreal for goals even if he nearly missed half the year. If you dont want to factor this...then I want to be in the same fantasy league as you.


And if he misses half the year, he isn't helping you in half the games.

Maybe thats the problem, you believe the NHL is a fantasy hockey league where it is simply about your statistics at the end of a year.

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07-23-2006, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveash View Post
Briere played 66 games last season including playoffs for 77pts. In comparison Kovalev played 75 games (with playoffs) for 72 pts.

So if Kovy is worth 4.5 I don't think it's too far streched to give 5millions to Briere.

The new NHL is perfect for players like Briere: fast and creative
Kovalev was a UFA, apples and oranges.

And last time i checked, players don't earn their salaries for the playoffs. Briere played 48 regular season games.

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07-23-2006, 06:11 PM
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Kovalev is also very important for us because he's a leader and ambassador for the russians on our team of which we have a lot (almost russians anyways, let's not split hair here).

Perezhogin, Markov, Kostitsyn, Samsonov, Kostitsyn (S.), Emelin among others.

I assume you have to consider the leader/veteran factor in a contract. Like Nash13 says though, apples and oranges really.


Last edited by kernkraft: 07-23-2006 at 06:16 PM.
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07-23-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
And if he misses half the year, he isn't helping you in half the games.

Maybe thats the problem, you believe the NHL is a fantasy hockey league where it is simply about your statistics at the end of a year.
Well..I guess the difference is you expect him to play 48 games a year. And I expect him to play 82 games a year...just like he did the previous 4 seasons.
He's definetly a 100+ point player if he plays with Samsonov and Kovalev.

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07-23-2006, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer View Post
Doesn't matter.

Individual cases will look stupid, but the overall team-by-team cap will still control salaries. If too many players get large judgements, they'll end up UFAs that will have to take half as much as they were awarded, so the system will end up regulating itself.

The only way it would have caused a real problem is if teams could accept arbritration rulings outside the cap (like those idiotic exemptions in NFL and NBA); that's what ruins caps.

Sucks for the Sabres to lose Briere (if they do deal him/let him go), but in the end it won't change the overall financial picture, and that's what is important longterm.
It isnt all or nothing. It will ratchet up salaries until teams walk away. It isnt based on market but ofetn some idiotic signing with the others ratcheting up. With teams loathe to let go of players something has to give so it may be middle of the road players especially free agents such as Carter, Peca and Bulis surprised by free agency. Teams will try to fit under the cap with slugs and rookies and players winning arbitrations will drive teams to the cap. What will relieve the pressure?

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07-23-2006, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveash View Post
Briere played 66 games last season including playoffs for 77pts. In comparison Kovalev played 75 games (with playoffs) for 72 pts.

So if Kovy is worth 4.5 I don't think it's too far streched to give 5millions to Briere.

The new NHL is perfect for players like Briere: fast and creative
Briere could mean a cup run before Koivu gets too old. Hot goalie 2 fast killer lines great powerplay veteran defense

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07-23-2006, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Exactly. If arbitration ends up causing headaches, then it's only because NHL GMs choose to let that happen.
Arbitration very often uses the comparables of a small number od idiotic signings by a rogue GM close to losing his job. This is not within the choices made by a BG. This is beyond the control of an individual or the majority of GMs and it is not market price.

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07-23-2006, 06:38 PM
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Remember My Post In 2009. Mark My Words.

I'm finding arbitration a little wierd in the new salary capped NHL. I gotta feeling that in a few years, the same thing will happen as in my 2K5 game after season 3 or 4. There was no room on any team to sign UFA for almost all teams. I was able to sign UFAs for dirt cheap becuase I had salary cap left.

I think salary arbitration is going to have to work on a bell curve basis. Everyone can't be over the top of the bell in their awards or the bell will be bent and broke, just like the NHL will be.

Please note that many teams now are cap-sick. The teams can even itself out now by uncappy teams taking some more cap. But then everyone will be close to cap and where will the uncappy teams come from next year????????

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07-23-2006, 06:47 PM
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Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
Well..I guess the difference is you expect him to play 48 games a year. And I expect him to play 82 games a year...just like he did the previous 4 seasons.
He's definetly a 100+ point player if he plays with Samsonov and Kovalev.
But thats the problem, you are paying him for something he hasn't done. He hasn't proved he can sustain a point per game for an 82 game schedule, yet he is getting payed like he has.

If you are going to base that he is going to remain injury free for like the previous seasons, lets also, bring him back to 60 point player that he was the previous 4 seasons.

I don't expect him to play 48 games a year, but i don't expect him to be paid like a guy who sustained a point per game rate for an entire season.

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