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Arbitration ruining hockey

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:17 PM
  #26
Kimota
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Wait a minute, did Brière get 5 Mil in arbitration or is it just the amount he asked from the Sabres?

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:18 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Wait a minute, did Brière get 5 Mil in arbitration or is it just the amount he asked from the Sabres?
The arbitrator awarded him 5 million. The Sabres have yet to decide on whether to sign him at that price or not.

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07-23-2006, 08:19 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
But thats the problem, you are paying him for something he hasn't done. He hasn't proved he can sustain a point per game for an 82 game schedule, yet he is getting payed like he has.

If you are going to base that he is going to remain injury free for like the previous seasons, lets also, bring him back to 60 point player that he was the previous 4 seasons.

I don't expect him to play 48 games a year, but i don't expect him to be paid like a guy who sustained a point per game rate for an entire season.
The game has changed. That guy is taylor suited for the new NHL.
btw here are the 3 best goal scoring seasons for both Brière and Ribeiro.
32,28,25
20,16,8

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:23 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
The arbitrator awarded him 5 million. The Sabres have yet to decide on whether to sign him at that price or not.
Wow that`s awful. I wonder who would be interested in Brière in the league for that amount?

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
The game has changed. That guy is taylor suited for the new NHL.
btw here are the 3 best goal scoring seasons for both Brière and Ribeiro.
32,28,25
20,16,8
And what the hell does Ribeiro have to do with it now.

Ribeiro is a guy they said was "taylor made" for the new NHL and he still sucks.

Great, the game has changed, and when Briere proves he can be a point per game player over 82 games, then we can start talking whether he deserves 5 million a year.

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:56 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
And what the hell does Ribeiro have to do with it now.

Ribeiro is a guy they said was "taylor made" for the new NHL and he still sucks.

Great, the game has changed, and when Briere proves he can be a point per game player over 82 games, then we can start talking whether he deserves 5 million a year.
It's funny you've been using exactly the same kind of arguments people use to diss Koivu.

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Old
07-23-2006, 08:58 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Arbitration very often uses the comparables of a small number od idiotic signings by a rogue GM close to losing his job. This is not within the choices made by a BG. This is beyond the control of an individual or the majority of GMs and it is not market price.
Well, to be fair, I'm sure the PLAYER side uses those idiotic signings, but the TEAM side is equally likely to pull out some of the more amazing bargains on the market as their comparables. And the arbitrators are educated and intelligent people who may have some ability to distinguish between the two extremes.

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07-23-2006, 09:04 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
It's funny you've been using exactly the same kind of arguments people use to diss Koivu.

When and where, link me up.

I will give it to you in a nutshell what i have always said regarding Koivu's contract. He receives the money he does because: 1) you are buying into a players years of unrestrictedness 2) Koivu brings intangibles such as leadership 3) Captaincy 4) and his points.

You also look into point number one, its a big BIG difference and is why UFA's salary should not be compared to RFA's.

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Old
07-23-2006, 09:08 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
When and where, link me up.

I will give it to you in a nutshell what i have always said regarding Koivu's contract. He receives the money he does because: 1) you are buying into a players years of unrestrictedness 2) Koivu brings intangibles such as leadership 3) Captaincy 4) and his points.

You also look into point number one, its a big BIG difference and is why UFA's salary should not be compared to RFA's.
You dont have to convince me about Koivu I like him. I'm just saying you're using the same arguments they use against Koivu.

And your point 1 is not always true. Some guys signed for 1 year and the Habs signed Samosonov for 2 years. Also Briere for 5 millions 1 year is much more interesting then Brière 25 millions for 5 years because if he does underperform like you are expecting well then his next contract wont be so big.

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07-23-2006, 09:25 PM
  #35
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The problem with arbitration is that it gives too much lattitude to the arbitrator. Baseball has a good system: the arbitrator has to choose either the players offer, or the team's, nothing in between. It forces both sides to make offers that are supportable, or they risk loosing their entire case and the other side wins.

That makes much more sense than the hockey arbitration system.


Last edited by Habbadasher: 07-23-2006 at 11:27 PM.
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Old
07-23-2006, 09:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well, to be fair, I'm sure the PLAYER side uses those idiotic signings, but the TEAM side is equally likely to pull out some of the more amazing bargains on the market as their comparables. And the arbitrators are educated and intelligent people who may have some ability to distinguish between the two extremes.
LOl amazing bargains? They are used lol. I doubt it as they are mostly younger players. A ratcheting effect occurs with each high award pulling the total up.

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07-23-2006, 09:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
You dont have to convince me about Koivu I like him. I'm just saying you're using the same arguments they use against Koivu.

And your point 1 is not always true. Some guys signed for 1 year and the Habs signed Samosonov for 2 years. Also Briere for 5 millions 1 year is much more interesting then Brière 25 millions for 5 years because if he does underperform like you are expecting well then his next contract wont be so big.

Again where are these arguments. I don't believe Briere deserves 5 million yet because he managed to play all of 48 games, and put up a point per game. You are making no sense whatsoever now. I told you the reason Koivu makes what he does, and they don't have anything to do with the reason i don't think Briere deserves 5 million.

UFA players have earned the right because of years of service (at least the good ones) to choose where they want to play. A UFA will sign a 1 year contract for less because they know if they play well, they will hit the lotto after the season. You are thus only buying into the minimum of their free agency.

Now again, i haven't said once that i expect Briere to underperform, and like yesterday with Smail, you aren't reading what people write. The guy played a great half season, sorry, that doesn't make him a 5 million dollar man, imo. Is that hard to explain. He could repeat it, its a distinct possibility, but maybe the arbitrator should actually wait and see if he actually can for an entire season before handing him out that type of money.

My problem is, the arbitrator is giving him an amount based on what he may have done and not what he did. He is giving the same money to guys that proved they could put the points up over a course of an entire season, don't you see where that is slightly flawed.

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Old
07-23-2006, 10:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Again where are these arguments. I don't believe Briere deserves 5 million yet because he managed to play all of 48 games, and put up a point per game. You are making no sense whatsoever now. I told you the reason Koivu makes what he does, and they don't have anything to do with the reason i don't think Briere deserves 5 million.

UFA players have earned the right because of years of service (at least the good ones) to choose where they want to play. A UFA will sign a 1 year contract for less because they know if they play well, they will hit the lotto after the season. You are thus only buying into the minimum of their free agency.

Now again, i haven't said once that i expect Briere to underperform, and like yesterday with Smail, you aren't reading what people write. The guy played a great half season, sorry, that doesn't make him a 5 million dollar man, imo. Is that hard to explain. He could repeat it, its a distinct possibility, but maybe the arbitrator should actually wait and see if he actually can for an entire season before handing him out that type of money.

My problem is, the arbitrator is giving him an amount based on what he may have done and not what he did. He is giving the same money to guys that proved they could put the points up over a course of an entire season, don't you see where that is slightly flawed.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu


Btw...I never said he deserved 5 millions. I said I would still rather have him and a 1 year 5 million dollar contract then Ribs 1 year 1.9 million. There is no doubt in my mind that the team would be better.


And yes I read what you say....and I could say the same about you.

Anyway the Sabres fans think he was worth 4 millions and I'd rather go by their opinion.
And also I dont think he's going anywhere.

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Old
07-23-2006, 10:09 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Arbitration very often uses the comparables of a small number od idiotic signings by a rogue GM close to losing his job. This is not within the choices made by a BG. This is beyond the control of an individual or the majority of GMs and it is not market price.
I wouldn't say GM's being close to being fired, it is by all GM's who are still out there spending money like $5 million per for 2nd line players like Jason Arnott and giving $8 million to players like Elias who have scored 40 goals once and has only broken the 90 point plateau once as well.

Too many GM's out there are still spending money like there is not a salary cap in place, these ludicras signings then are great ammo for players looking to cash in who have similar numbers and have been low balled in an offer by their GM. All the power to these players if GM's are going to be stupid about spending still.

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07-23-2006, 10:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
I wouldn't say GM's being close to being fired, it is by all GM's who are still out there spending money like $5 million per for 2nd line players like Jason Arnott and giving $8 million to players like Elias who have scored 40 goals once and has ony broken the 90 point plateau once as well.

Too many GM's out there are still spending money like there is not salary cap in place, these ludicras signings then are great ammo for players looking to cash in who have similar numbers and have been low balled in an offer by their GM. All the power to these players in GM's are going to be stupid about spending still.
Elias got $6 million
but for 7 years.

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07-23-2006, 10:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Elias got $6 million
but for 7 years.
he average $6 millions per year but next year he get $7.5

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07-23-2006, 10:20 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Elias got $6 million
but for 7 years.
Do you thing he will be worth $6 million per in the final years of that contract when he is closing in on 37 on a Defensive styled team like NJ?

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07-23-2006, 10:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Do you thing he will be worth $6 million per in the final years of that contract when he is closing in on 37 on a Defensive styled team like NJ?
I was just pointing out he wasnt making 8 million.

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07-23-2006, 10:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Kovalev was a UFA, apples and oranges.

And last time i checked, players don't earn their salaries for the playoffs. Briere played 48 regular season games.
The guys who decided on Briere salary today doesn't give a s**t about his sattus.

Actually players raise their value A LOT during the playoffs....Pisani is a good example.


Last edited by Shatmat*: 07-23-2006 at 11:05 PM.
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07-23-2006, 11:03 PM
  #45
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The guys who decided on Briere salary today diesn't give a s**t about his sattus.

Actually players raise their value A LOT during the playoffs....Pisani is a good example.
do you saw a lot of players who almost equal their 80 games goals production in 24 playoff games?

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07-23-2006, 11:04 PM
  #46
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do you saw a lot of players who almost equal their 80 games goals production in 24 playoff games?
Huh?

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07-23-2006, 11:07 PM
  #47
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Huh?
18 goals in 80 regular season games ~= 14 goals in 24 playoff games

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Old
07-23-2006, 11:21 PM
  #48
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I think playoffs are a huge barganing chip in sallary arbitration...for playeres but even more so Goalies.
Honestly who wants a goalie that sucks in the playoffs see Turco ( no way the Stars are happy with his contrazct right now and would love to move him)
Brad Richards has been close to a point a game player before but it is his playoff numbers that have earned him at or near the cap minimum.

I do agree with Nash13 about paying for a players years of restriced free agancy and intangables such as leadership (Koivu) Ambassador (Kovalev)

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07-23-2006, 11:44 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu


Btw...I never said he deserved 5 millions. I said I would still rather have him and a 1 year 5 million dollar contract then Ribs 1 year 1.9 million. There is no doubt in my mind that the team would be better.


And yes I read what you say....and I could say the same about you.

Anyway the Sabres fans think he was worth 4 millions and I'd rather go by their opinion.
And also I dont think he's going anywhere.
I only went thru one of those threads and it was futile, and i am not going through the rest to prove a point. Nowhere did i say Koivu deserves the money he received because he for half a season put up a ppg. That is my problem, until you can find a quote from me saying that, you are talking out of your *** once again.

Again my arguments to why Koivu is paid the way he is, and the reason why Briere shouldn't are completely different. You can dig up threads that i posted in regarding Koivu, but they say exactly what i am saying today, good try though.

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Old
07-23-2006, 11:50 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=koivu


Btw...I never said he deserved 5 millions. I said I would still rather have him and a 1 year 5 million dollar contract then Ribs 1 year 1.9 million. There is no doubt in my mind that the team would be better.


And yes I read what you say....and I could say the same about you.

Anyway the Sabres fans think he was worth 4 millions and I'd rather go by their opinion.
And also I dont think he's going anywhere.
Whats also pathetic is i go thru a couple of those threads and i didn't even post in them, and you are using them as proof of something i said.

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