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NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

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03-06-2013, 06:37 AM
  #126
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It's guaranteed to create more excitement globally than any World Cup would... But since many posters here seem to keep repeating, just like the points in Whose Line is It Anyway, the rest of of the world doesn't matter because 'Murrica.
What you are failing to realize is the NHL is not concerned about excitement globally. Secondly, once the Olympics are over, how much excitement will be generated for the NHL in Europe? I was in Prague 2 weeks ago. Couldn't find a bar that showed NHL games because they all started at 1am or later local time.

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03-06-2013, 06:48 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
What you are failing to realize is the NHL is not concerned about excitement globally. Secondly, once the Olympics are over, how much excitement will be generated for the NHL in Europe? I was in Prague 2 weeks ago. Couldn't find a bar that showed NHL games because they all started at 1am or later local time.
Let 's put it this way, the excitement doesn't show in bars but on the internet. And that goes for every major sport these days. The biggest Finnish hockey site/messageboard Jatkoaika.com has nightly GDTs for NHL and I've never seen more posts and posters there than this season. The chat window on HDPlayer is also very lively with plenty of people commenting on the games they are watching for free.


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03-06-2013, 06:53 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Let 's put it this way, the excitement doesn't show in bars but on the internet. And that goes for every major sport these days. The biggest Finnish hockey site/messageboard Jatkoaika.com has night GDTs for NHL and I've never seen more posts and posters there than this season. The chat window on HDPlayer is also very lively with plenty of people commenting on the games they are watching for free.
Okay sure, but how does this translate into more money to the NHL clubs' bottom line? And what percent of total NHL revenues would this equate to?

What you must understand is that the NHL's biggest desire is to capture the interest of the casual sports fan in the United States. More interest in the United States means a bigger national TV contract, which means a significant increase to the NHL clubs' bottom line. The Olympic Games in Sochi, where the games will be aired between dawn and lunch time, will not resonate with the casual sports fan in United States. The NHL might end up going regardless of whether the IOC is willing to 'repay' the NHL for their troubles. But now is absolutely the correct time to bluff.


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03-06-2013, 06:53 AM
  #129
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Neither do us Europeans when the games are played in North America...
No offense to you and every other European, but the NHL doesn't really care how much buzz the games would create overseas. Not nearly as much as they care about the interest here. Bottom line is, imo, there is less incentive to send the players. If the games were in NA I don't think we're even discussing this right now. Gary's picking the right spot to fight this battle, and if he gets what he wants than good for him.

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03-06-2013, 06:54 AM
  #130
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No, absolutely not. Completely different. The point is, in soccer the Olympics is not nearly as important as other international tournaments. Would be the same in hockey if the NHL decides not to go and then hold a World Cup every few years.
You're assuming other countries outside North America would participate in the World Cup. And comparing an under-23 Olympic tournament to a potential non-NHL but with European pros Olympic hockey tournament is not a valid comparison. Russia and Czech Republic already use more KHL players on their national teams than NHL players, even if they could use more.

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03-06-2013, 07:00 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
No offense to you and every other European, but the NHL doesn't really care how much buzz the games would create overseas. Not nearly as much as they care about the interest here. Bottom line is, imo, there is less incentive to send the players. If the games were in NA I don't think we're even discussing this right now. Gary's picking the right spot to fight this battle, and if he gets what he wants than good for him.
Ever thought that that maybe the reason NHL is at it's current position so to speak? NBA definitely cares more about international fans.

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03-06-2013, 07:02 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Ever thought that that maybe the reason NHL is at it's current position so to speak? NBA definitely cares more about international fans.
The NBA's national TV contract is $980 Million per season. The NHL's national TV contract is $200 Million per season. There's your difference, and it has very little if nothing to do with international interest.

If you stick around this forum, I promise you'll learn a lot about the NHL's business engine and what motivates their business decisions. You have to have an open mind though.


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03-06-2013, 07:03 AM
  #133
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On a unrelated note The NFL and australian football league are the biggest sports where its players dont have an international tourney.
How close is Australian football to rugby? gaelic football?

An international tournament for American football would be a waste of time. The US would beat Canada and Somoa by 60 points each and everyone else a lot worse.

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03-06-2013, 07:05 AM
  #134
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You're assuming other countries outside North America would participate in the World Cup. And comparing an under-23 Olympic tournament to a potential non-NHL but with European pros Olympic hockey tournament is not a valid comparison. Russia and Czech Republic already use more KHL players on their national teams than NHL players, even if they could use more.
Why wouldn't the other countries participate? They have done it before. On their national teams for the World Championship maybe, since most NHLers are either still in the play-offs or elect not to play. In an Olympic or World Cup tournament, they would be using NHL'ers.

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03-06-2013, 07:47 AM
  #135
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If you stick around this forum, I promise you'll learn a lot about the NHL's business engine and what motivates their business decisions. You have to have an open mind though.

Oh I already know enough about their business thinking or rather lack of it. If they want drop into obscurity in the US by dropping out of Olympics, fine, go ahead.

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03-06-2013, 07:50 AM
  #136
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Oh I already know enough about their business thinking or rather lack of it. If they want drop into obscurity in the US by dropping out of Olympics, fine, go ahead.
Dropping out of the Olympics will have no bearing on whether the drop into obscurity in the US or not.

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03-06-2013, 07:59 AM
  #137
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Oh I already know enough about their business thinking or rather lack of it. If they want drop into obscurity in the US by dropping out of Olympics, fine, go ahead.
Right now as far as I can tell of the major sports, the only ones that realistically participate are the NHL, NBA, and MLS. Football isn't in the Olympics, Baseball hasn't been for the longest time though are back I believe, and soccer in the Olympics doesn't get the best players because "they don't want to compete with the prestige of the World Cup and Euro Championship".

No one, not even the NHL, will argue about whether or not it's important for NHL players to be there because anyone with a brain knows that it is. Not only for the "excitement" that it brings but also the money it generates. And on a simpler level, it would look extremely bad if they were to all of a sudden stop going after just starting to go in 98.

As far as I understand it, the NHL isn't asking for a cut of the money but rather for increased physical and media access and I don't understand why the IOC is hesitant to do so. Maybe the NHL/NHLPA share in the costs associated with sending team doctors and trainers which cuts spending for the IIHF. And who knows, crazy thought here, maybe if NBC is allowed to show highlights from 2010 and the Americans getting so close, they could generate even more interest for 2014 which would lead to even more money for the IOC. Nah forget that, increased exposure of what goes on at the Olympics would never lead to that....

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03-06-2013, 08:00 AM
  #138
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Oh I already know enough about their business thinking or rather lack of it. If they want drop into obscurity in the US by dropping out of Olympics, fine, go ahead.
Surely there is at least one reason why you believe the NHL's popularity in the United States depends on the presence of it's players in Sochi. Can you please provide it. Your drive-by assertions aren't adding much to this discussion.

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03-06-2013, 08:01 AM
  #139
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Why wouldn't the other countries participate? They have done it before. On their national teams for the World Championship maybe, since most NHLers are either still in the play-offs or elect not to play. In an Olympic or World Cup tournament, they would be using NHL'ers.
I already explained in the now closed thread and other European poster have expressed similar views. Simple case of level playing field, games played only in NA is a big nono. If you've paid any attention to what not only the Russian posters her but what their hockey bosses have been saying, their egos are "a bit" high right now mostly due to the KHL. Which means expecting Russia to take part in a tournament with a clear NA advantage, is not going to happen. With Russia saying no, other European federations would follow. Someone suggested that each federation would be paid for participation. Even if the organizers paid for the players insurance (doubtful, considering how high they already are), it would take at least a high 7 figure sum, probably even an 8 figure sum to get Russia even get their ***** off the couch. Once again, other federations would demand equal money which would make the tournament making any kind of profit impossible. As has been demonstrated before, NHL values NA tv audiences more than anything so games played in Europe are no go to them. To sum it up, the time when Europeans would jump at joy to play in an NHL hosted/organized tournament, is gone.

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03-06-2013, 08:01 AM
  #140
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It's interesting, though, to consider the potential European market that the NHL has only begun to tap. They might not buy tickets, but surely they could account for a significant amount of revenue through television, online viewing and merchandise sales. But it would take some investment to develop that consumer market, and the NHL isn't playing with unlimited sums of money for developing new markets. Sochi offers an opportunity to focus on the Euro market for a month, and draw interest to what these players are doing on their NHL teams.

Regardless whether he's interested in Europe or not, Bettman isn't going to tip his hand during negotiations. Until the contract is signed, he's going to act like the Olympics are just a big burden that the NHL has to accommodate. That's the way he bargains.

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03-06-2013, 08:02 AM
  #141
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Surely there is at least one reason why you believe the NHL's popularity in the United States depends on the presence of it's players in Sochi. Can you please provide it. Your drive-by assertions aren't adding much to this discussion.
27 miliion compared to 6 million. Easy math.

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03-06-2013, 08:06 AM
  #142
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27 miliion compared to 6 million. Easy math.
Sorry, what are these numbers referring to? I'm trying to learn something here. No need to be snarky.

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03-06-2013, 08:08 AM
  #143
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It's interesting, though, to consider the potential European market that the NHL has only begun to tap. They might not buy tickets, but surely they could account for a significant amount of revenue through television, online viewing and merchandise sales. But it would take some investment to develop that consumer market, and the NHL isn't playing with unlimited sums of money for developing new markets. Sochi offers an opportunity to focus on the Euro market for a month, and draw interest to what these players are doing on their NHL teams.

Regardless whether he's interested in Europe or not, Bettman isn't going to tip his hand during negotiations. Until the contract is signed, he's going to act like the Olympics are just a big burden that the NHL has to accommodate. That's the way he bargains.
Ironically enough, NHL has been sort of shooting themselves on the foot with European tv audiences. They've either outpriced the rights, sold them to obscure channels (ask the UK fans) and in most cases, hid it from the fans by selling them to pay tv channels. There is a reason why wiziwig.eu and similar sites and for us Finns the HDTVPlayer program are so popular. An overwhelming majority of the NHL fans can't afford the multitude of often overpriced channel packages.

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03-06-2013, 08:15 AM
  #144
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Sorry, what are these numbers referring to? I'm trying to learn something here. No need to be snarky.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=38

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03-06-2013, 08:33 AM
  #145
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Thanks for the link. Yes, no doubt the 2010 Gold Medal Game had excellent TV ratings in the US. A couple of questions:

1. Do you think time zone is a factor in US ratings? The Sochi games will be aired either on tape delay or live very early in the morning. I'd love to see the ratings in Nagano and Turin as a comparison to Vancouver. Any idea where we can find them or if they're available?

2. What evidence is there that the Olympic Games has a long-term impact on the popularity of the game in the United States. I have no doubt there are short-term spikes in ratings after a highly watched Gold Medal Game. But where is the evidence of a long-term impact that helps you arrive to the conclusion that the NHL's popularity in the United States absolutely depends on the participation of NHL players in Sochi.


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03-06-2013, 08:54 AM
  #146
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I already explained in the now closed thread and other European poster have expressed similar views. Simple case of level playing field, games played only in NA is a big nono. If you've paid any attention to what not only the Russian posters her but what their hockey bosses have been saying, their egos are "a bit" high right now mostly due to the KHL. Which means expecting Russia to take part in a tournament with a clear NA advantage, is not going to happen. With Russia saying no, other European federations would follow. Someone suggested that each federation would be paid for participation. Even if the organizers paid for the players insurance (doubtful, considering how high they already are), it would take at least a high 7 figure sum, probably even an 8 figure sum to get Russia even get their ***** off the couch. Once again, other federations would demand equal money which would make the tournament making any kind of profit impossible. As has been demonstrated before, NHL values NA tv audiences more than anything so games played in Europe are no go to them. To sum it up, the time when Europeans would jump at joy to play in an NHL hosted/organized tournament, is gone.
So, all the European countries are going to just follow Russia's lead? Didn't realize this was 1973. It is not as if the rest of the countries have followed Russia's lead in reagards to dealing with their NHL draftees and transfer agreements. Russian NHLers will play, regardless of whether their federation or the IIHF is involved. Russia would only boycott because they know the only tourney they can win is when they are able to use their best players while the US and Canada is using mostly players from the C and D squad, like was the case in last year's World Championships.

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03-06-2013, 09:50 AM
  #147
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Thanks for the link. Yes, no doubt the 2010 Gold Medal Game had excellent TV ratings in the US. A couple of questions:

1. Do you think time zone is a factor in US ratings? The Sochi games will be aired either on tape delay or live very early in the morning. I'd love to see the ratings in Nagano and Turin as a comparison to Vancouver. Any idea where we can find them or if they're available?

2. What evidence is there that the Olympic Games has a long-term impact on the popularity of the game in the United States. I have no doubt there are short-term spikes in ratings after a highly watched Gold Medal Game. But where is the evidence of a long-term impact that helps you arrive to the conclusion that the NHL's popularity in the United States absolutely depends on the participation of NHL players in Sochi.
TBF, can that even be measured? Like, is it worth more to pocket a few millions and have 2 million Americans watch a bad World Cup, or have 20 million watch an Olympics.

All I can say is that hanging out on casual message boards where poeple start game threads, no one started World Cup of Hockey threads except hardcores, but that casuals watch the Olympics and start asking questions about hockey after.

Just from a competition, open, and fair tournament, the World Cup is bad.....which is all I care about as a fan. I personally didn't watch the 04 World Cup for that reason.

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03-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #148
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IMO too, if you want people to love hockey, give kids the chance to afford it. How many sets of equipment could the NHL hand out annually? The idea of plopping a faux World Cup that tries to cater to America so blantantly just seems like a dumb idea.

The NFL is thinking like the NHL too, hoping plopping games into London does something. Talking to international gridiron players, those games do nothing to get people to try the sport.

You want kids to like a sport, follow what soccer does in the USA and baseball does in Australia and Europe, make the sport accessible to try and let them love the game through play.

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03-06-2013, 10:22 AM
  #149
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TBF, can that even be measured? Like, is it worth more to pocket a few millions and have 2 million Americans watch a bad World Cup, or have 20 million watch an Olympics.

All I can say is that hanging out on casual message boards where poeple start game threads, no one started World Cup of Hockey threads except hardcores, but that casuals watch the Olympics and start asking questions about hockey after.

Just from a competition, open, and fair tournament, the World Cup is bad.....which is all I care about as a fan. I personally didn't watch the 04 World Cup for that reason.
With the bolded, who says it has to be one or the other? I'm sure the NHL loves the Olympics, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid for it.

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03-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #150
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So, all the European countries are going to just follow Russia's lead? Didn't realize this was 1973. It is not as if the rest of the countries have followed Russia's lead in reagards to dealing with their NHL draftees and transfer agreements. Russian NHLers will play, regardless of whether their federation or the IIHF is involved. Russia would only boycott because they know the only tourney they can win is when they are able to use their best players while the US and Canada is using mostly players from the C and D squad, like was the case in last year's World Championships.
What ever gives you that idea? They's play in the Olympics, because it's The Olympics but the World Cup doesn't not enjoy such appreciation among the players who'd most likely spend the time vacationing still. Also, it's not about "following the lead" but rather "well if they're not going, why should we?/hey, we want the same money they do".

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