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Game #24|Mar. 5, 2013|Flyers at Rangers|7:30 p.m. ET

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:11 AM
  #601
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well atleast people are not posting the "keep calm there are a lot of games left" anymore.
not like we had a realistic chance this year anyway. We are probably 2 years and a lot of luck away.

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03-06-2013, 12:16 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Just curious, which players do you think are underperforming? Really I'm asking anyone who feels this way. Most guys are on a really good pts/game pace, and Bryz has played well overall. Not many guys left to name but a couple defensemen maybe. I think this team is just not that good and has had a couple important injuries.
This team is good, it's only about little things. We need a better D to move the puck and improve the transition game. Losing Matt Carle really hurt us on that point. Talbot hasn't found his groove yet this year, I wouldn't give up on him, I'm sure he eventually will find it back and that he's a warrior, but he's underperforming right now. Couturier has a kind of slump, which is pardonnable as he's 20. When he'll break out, he'll be a monster. Coburn isn't playing very well as many other have noticed. He may be injured. Giroux is playing pretty well, but he's no where close to what he was last season. Hartnell hasn't been impressive either.

We have a couple of players that are really performing this year, though, Voracek and Simmonds have been monsters so far this year. Brayden Schenn has also improved a lot.

We need to fix some little issues and we'll be fine. This year will probably end up being a fail, but it will give us the chance to get a great player in a deep draft. We could have a very strong year next year if we make the right moves this summer (nothing big).

The fact that we have played a lot of back to back games hasn't helped us either.


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03-06-2013, 07:03 AM
  #603
blinds
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Just curious, which players do you think are underperforming? Really I'm asking anyone who feels this way. Most guys are on a really good pts/game pace, and Bryz has played well overall. Not many guys left to name but a couple defensemen maybe. I think this team is just not that good and has had a couple important injuries.
Bryz. He started the season awesome, but when the offense started to pick up, he dropped off and is letting in all kinds of soft goals again. He also makes terrible decisions like poke checks or reading obvious plays wrong. Seems like both the offense and Bryz can't be going at the same time.

Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what YuioIklo said. Couts, Coburn, Talbot, Briere, Timonen and Hartnell are all underperforming. I don't blame Couts though, he's only 20, and Hartnell is coming off foot surgery and the lockout, so I understand he'll take some time to get in his groove. The others, especially Coburn (I don't buy playing injured, I feel like Coburn does this all the time) and Briere need to step up. Giroux isn't playing like he was last year, seems like he isn't taking the same kind of risks offensively that used to pay off for him. Watching him it feels like he's just playing it safe, maybe he's distracted by the captaincy and off his game a little.

Otherwise, like I said, it seems like a coaching and management issue. Bad coaching decisions keep leading to defensive breakdowns, like the line changes against the Rangers and reckless pinching by defense (our defense is so slow, I don't know how always pinching is a good idea). We also seem to overcommit to the forecheck and give up oddman chances frequently. I think it's just Lavi's system in general, it's a risky, offensive-first system that's being exposed as teams both figure us out and our offense isn't producing like it should be. Our team looks good when we can produce offensively, but that's been extremely streaky this year and when we're up against a good defensive team, we just collapse.

As far as the offense not producing, it seems to be a finishing problem. No one can score right now other than Voracek and Simmonds. Hartnell is struggling, Briere is invisible, Giroux was never a goal scorer, and Schenn seems to be cooling off again. Gagne isn't his old self and likely won't be, Couts doesn't really have the opportunity to produce and is still too young to expect production from, and Read of course is injured. I think a pure goal scorer is a major need for this team.

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03-06-2013, 07:09 AM
  #604
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I think we might squeak a win out of the pens, but the bruins are gonna rip us apart.
I don't even think a win against the Pens is coming. There's lots of good pieces in place, but this is a team that is in A LOT of trouble. Injuries, players under performing and lack of depth in certain areas have really hurt this club. From what I also understand, Holmgren has been given the green light to start selling off assets and that he's waiting until the trade deadline, because that will really give an indication as to whether or not this club can put together a run to acquire a playoff spot AND bidding will be at it's highest and he can come away with several nice pieces with regards to the retool. It's not a full out rebuild, but there's definitely some rework that needs to be done.

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03-06-2013, 07:15 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't even think a win against the Pens is coming. There's lots of good pieces in place, but this is a team that is in A LOT of trouble. Injuries, players under performing and lack of depth in certain areas have really hurt this club. From what I also understand, Holmgren has been given the green light to start selling off assets and that he's waiting until the trade deadline, because that will really give an indication as to whether or not this club can put together a run to acquire a playoff spot AND bidding will be at it's highest and he can come away with several nice pieces with regards to the retool. It's not a full out rebuild, but there's definitely some rework that needs to be done.
I hope the assets Homer sells off include Briere, Bryz (if possible), Kimmo, and the other older, veteran players only. I wouldn't mind seeing Coburn moved either if the return is good. We should get as many 1st rounders as possible in a draft as deep as this years IMO.

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03-06-2013, 08:08 AM
  #606
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I hope the assets Homer sells off include Briere, Bryz (if possible), Kimmo, and the other older, veteran players only. I wouldn't mind seeing Coburn moved either if the return is good. We should get as many 1st rounders as possible in a draft as deep as this years IMO.
Brière is the most reasonably shopped veteran, but that will take a long, testy conversation with Holmgren about waiving his NMC. We've dissected the possibilities to death, but I'm unconvinced that he's as valuable in the eyes of other GMs to be bringing back a significant return. Maybe a 1st and a so-so prospect / player if a true bidding war starts.

I can't see Holmgren trading Bryzgalov for a number of reasons. First, it would be a repudiation of his and Mr. Snider's power play to sign Bryzgalov and to solve the goalie crisis for years. Second, it leaves (yet again) a gaping hole in goal. Where do you find a starter? The defense, at present, is too woeful to not have a top-notch goaltender behind them. Finally, who would be interested in Bryzgalov and his contract, particularly as long as the arguably better Luongo is there for the trading?

Timonen would have been an excellent trade asset for teams looking to make a playoff push. But then Holmgren had to mess this up by signing him to a $6 million extension. Maybe Timonen told Holmgren that he wouldn't waive to be dealt elsewhere. I don't think Timonen is worth $6 million anymore, and I doubt any of the other GMs do, either.

Moving Coburn is intriguing, but it would have to be D for D. As underwhelming as the Flyers defense has been, it would be much worse without him.

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03-06-2013, 08:23 AM
  #607
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Brière is the most reasonably shopped veteran, but that will take a long, testy conversation with Holmgren about waiving his NMC. We've dissected the possibilities to death, but I'm unconvinced that he's as valuable in the eyes of other GMs to be bringing back a significant return. Maybe a 1st and a so-so prospect / player if a true bidding war starts.

I can't see Holmgren trading Bryzgalov for a number of reasons. First, it would be a repudiation of his and Mr. Snider's power play to sign Bryzgalov and to solve the goalie crisis for years. Second, it leaves (yet again) a gaping hole in goal. Where do you find a starter? The defense, at present, is too woeful to not have a top-notch goaltender behind them. Finally, who would be interested in Bryzgalov and his contract, particularly as long as the arguably better Luongo is there for the trading?

Timonen would have been an excellent trade asset for teams looking to make a playoff push. But then Holmgren had to mess this up by signing him to a $6 million extension. Maybe Timonen told Holmgren that he wouldn't waive to be dealt elsewhere. I don't think Timonen is worth $6 million anymore, and I doubt any of the other GMs do, either.

Moving Coburn is intriguing, but it would have to be D for D. As underwhelming as the Flyers defense has been, it would be much worse without him.
I think you could convince Briere to waive. It could be his last shot at a Cup. I would be happy with a 1st for Briere. Anything else is just a bonus to me.

At some point you have to say it was a mistake to sign Bryz for that long and for that much. You can't just sweep it under the rug anymore. He takes up a large amount of cap and prevents us from making other moves. The way Bryz has played so far in Philly, I would argue he isn't a top-notch goalie in the NHL. He hasn't been the answer for our goaltending woes, nor will he ever I think. I rather plug in stopgaps at G for the next 7 years for $1.5M than pay an average goalie $5.67M/yr for 7 more years. I don't think anyone would trade for Bryz, which is why I said if possible. An amnesty is probably our only choice, realistically to get rid of his horrible contract.

Yea, I would move Coburn for a good D-prospect like a Gormley, not necessarily Gormley himself, just one with a ceiling like him, and a 1st.

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03-06-2013, 10:04 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't even think a win against the Pens is coming. There's lots of good pieces in place, but this is a team that is in A LOT of trouble. Injuries, players under performing and lack of depth in certain areas have really hurt this club. From what I also understand, Holmgren has been given the green light to start selling off assets and that he's waiting until the trade deadline, because that will really give an indication as to whether or not this club can put together a run to acquire a playoff spot AND bidding will be at it's highest and he can come away with several nice pieces with regards to the retool. It's not a full out rebuild, but there's definitely some rework that needs to be done.
Do you have inside info on Holmgrens "green light" or are you guessing.

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #609
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Bryz. He started the season awesome, but when the offense started to pick up, he dropped off and is letting in all kinds of soft goals again. He also makes terrible decisions like poke checks or reading obvious plays wrong. Seems like both the offense and Bryz can't be going at the same time.

Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what YuioIklo said. Couts, Coburn, Talbot, Briere, Timonen and Hartnell are all underperforming. I don't blame Couts though, he's only 20, and Hartnell is coming off foot surgery and the lockout, so I understand he'll take some time to get in his groove. The others, especially Coburn (I don't buy playing injured, I feel like Coburn does this all the time) and Briere need to step up. Giroux isn't playing like he was last year, seems like he isn't taking the same kind of risks offensively that used to pay off for him. Watching him it feels like he's just playing it safe, maybe he's distracted by the captaincy and off his game a little.

Otherwise, like I said, it seems like a coaching and management issue. Bad coaching decisions keep leading to defensive breakdowns, like the line changes against the Rangers and reckless pinching by defense (our defense is so slow, I don't know how always pinching is a good idea). We also seem to overcommit to the forecheck and give up oddman chances frequently. I think it's just Lavi's system in general, it's a risky, offensive-first system that's being exposed as teams both figure us out and our offense isn't producing like it should be. Our team looks good when we can produce offensively, but that's been extremely streaky this year and when we're up against a good defensive team, we just collapse.

As far as the offense not producing, it seems to be a finishing problem. No one can score right now other than Voracek and Simmonds. Hartnell is struggling, Briere is invisible, Giroux was never a goal scorer, and Schenn seems to be cooling off again. Gagne isn't his old self and likely won't be, Couts doesn't really have the opportunity to produce and is still too young to expect production from, and Read of course is injured. I think a pure goal scorer is a major need for this team.
Everybody seems to have lost it after last night, but Bryz was coming off two really strong games previously. True, he hasn't been playing at the same level he was early in the season, but overall he's still been a good goalie. I don't think Couturier is underperforming because he's got no resume at the NHL level to suggest he should be doing more at this point. And to me it was much more surprising to see Talbot with 19 goals last year than with 1 goal so far this year, although I would have guessed he'd have a few more.

I think the Giroux and Hartnell points tie into the injuries. Harts missed a lot of time and Giroux didn't seem to have chemistry with his replacement linemates at times. Still he's almost at a ppg, so his production has still been there at a respectable amount. Timonen and Briere are getting older and I think its time to say that they're not underperforming, they're declining. And Briere is still picking up points at a decent rate even though he's taken a lot of criticism on these boards.

So I agree with Coburn, but for the rest of the players often criticized, I think people's expectations were just maybe too high. And Hartnell missing so much time is no small thing to me. Without injuries to key players, I think this is a 6th/7th place team when all is said and done. Factor in the time missed by players we really count on, and they're fighting for a playoff spot. Lavi's system works when it has players that are a fit, and this team isn't a great fit at this point. Too many guys without defensive instincts and skills to allow them to play at such a high tempo.

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03-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #610
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Kind of confusd at why nobody goes after Ryan Callahan. That dude should have been hit by somebody in the first 5 minutes.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:35 PM
  #611
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I don't know if your broadcast showed this, but hagelin's suiting up for the world cup next week:


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03-06-2013, 03:59 PM
  #612
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I haven't found right topic for my question about Hartnell, hopefully you can answer what topic would be right because I'm new user for that forum.

But I ask you guys: anyone knows why Hartnell is using a dark visor, I noticed that he started to using it after his leg injury. Did he get a concussion?

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03-06-2013, 04:18 PM
  #613
MiamiScreamingEagles
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I haven't found right topic for my question about Hartnell, hopefully you can answer what topic would be right because I'm new user for that forum.

But I ask you guys: anyone knows why Hartnell is using a dark visor, I noticed that he started to using it after his leg injury. Did he get a concussion?
Someone at CSN mentioned an eye infection around the time of Hartnell's return. Not much has been said otherwise.

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