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Old
03-06-2013, 12:37 AM
  #26
ColePens
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Paul Martin is the highlight of this plus/minus. The guy was on his way out playing piss-poor hockey. I respect him so much for manning up and (so far) playing the way he should have from the beginning. It's hard to start from scratch and really face adversity the way he did. When his Pens tenure is over, I will respect the hell out of him. He's playing great hockey right now.

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03-06-2013, 12:38 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
It kind of is. The goalies are scambling because they are trying to cover up for a defense thats scrambling in front of them with shots just being thrown on net from everywhere.

A lot of teams seem to overload one side of the ice when the puck is there but I think its nonsense and just leads to mistakes. The worst of all is that the Pens use their defense to double up on pucks while playing a zone defense. Then when things don't go their way the defense has to scramble back into position leading to mass confusion.

Look at all the backdoor goals scored on MAF last playoff. He's so worried about going side to side to shut the back door that he can't focus on pucks. Then he overplays pucks and starts looking sloppy while allowing bad goals.

I hate an overactive D. Flat out hate it. Its 90's Caps way of thinking and it was garbage then. I understand that the pens like coming up the wall and when that gets taken away the players deep in the defensive zone have to carry the puck but when the defense has to carry the puck up the ice, force plays all over the ice and double up with his partner its to friggin much.
Good comparison with the Caps. I was going to post that the other day but didn't want ridiculed. I think this team is playing like the Caps. Winning on talent but the structure makes zero sense. I hate it.

And not only the 90s Caps... I feel like they are playing similar to 2008-2010 Caps.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:56 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Good comparison with the Caps. I was going to post that the other day but didn't want ridiculed. I think this team is playing like the Caps. Winning on talent but the structure makes zero sense. I hate it.

And not only the 90s Caps... I feel like they are playing similar to 2008-2010 Caps.
Fully agree. I think the Pens feel the need to play that way because of Sid and Malkin. The funny thing is that I don't think both of those players need or want to play that way. I was hoping the Pens would take a page out of the Devils book from last season. A player like Kovy has his freedom but there is structure and support around him. This doesn't limit him at all but gives him options to use his skill while still playing on the same page as everyone else. If the Pens would apply that logic all over the ice they can then take chance while having support in behind it for less risk.

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Old
03-06-2013, 01:08 AM
  #29
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I love the emotion Sid is playing with this season. The goal he scored against Montreal and the one against Tampa last night- he looked *really* fired up after those goals. You can just tell he's having fun out there and into the games right now. Sometimes Sid goes through stretches where he looks frustrated, but you can tell everything is clicking for him right now. I think he had a lot of weight on his shoulders last season with him coming back from injury and then having to deal with playing a playoff series against a bitter rival. This year he just looks like the weight of the world is off his back and he can just go back to playing hockey and being Sid.

I know there's plenty of things to gripe about with this team but I hope we all take a step back sometimes and really appreciate what we have here. I watch other teams a lot since I have center ice and none are as fun to watch as we are. We're so blessed to have Sid and Geno and it's made me beyond happy to see the two in the lineup together doing their thing again. No matter how frustrating the Pens can be at times with sloppy play and the Bylsma system and whatever else, it's always a joy to watch those two play, and I never feel like I've wasted my time watching a game.

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:49 AM
  #30
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Here's the Pen's GVT/G chart sorted by position and then "rank". It should read as a depth chart among the 3 primary positions D,F, and G.


This shows the contribution of each player / game in "goals". It is nice because when a player is out, you just substitute the GVT/G to see how much it affects the Pens. Pens as a team are the sum of all "playing" GVT/G. GVT/G is as close to an overall "skill" metric as I can find.

You can compare this "sum" against another team's "sum" to get an expected, average goal differential if the teams were to play against each other.

GVT is Goals Versus Threshold. Basically it shows you how many "equivalent goals" each player provides relative to a replacement (ie AHL) player. Players with negative values are not playing at a NHL level and could effectively be "replaced" by just about any warm body available.

This is the data to back up any opinions you have on players and how well/not well they are doing.

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03-06-2013, 08:06 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I think a lot of that is an attempt to absolve Malkin for his decidedly mediocre play thus far(for his standards). For some, the failure of the second line at even strength will be blamed on everything else in the world before it's blamed on Malkin.
This is an odd statement. Both Malkin and Neal are responsible for their lack of success 5 on 5. Even still, both are producing points at a pretty good clip. So if you are going to give Neal a plus for burying his chances but not playing a complete game, you need to do the same for Malkin. Hence why people have them both at ='s.

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03-06-2013, 08:16 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
This is an odd statement. Both Malkin and Neal are responsible for their lack of success 5 on 5. Even still, both are producing points at a pretty good clip. So if you are going to give Neal a plus for burying his chances but not playing a complete game, you need to do the same for Malkin. Hence why people have them both at ='s.
I think Malkin has looked a lot like I thought Sid looked the first 2 weeks of the year: trying to play at a high level, but no puck possession and support to do so.

Those first two weeks, Sid was just skating circles while his wingers and D men took turns gaining and giving up possession.


Now Malkin needs his wingers to hold on to the puck.

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03-06-2013, 08:17 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
This is an odd statement. Both Malkin and Neal are responsible for their lack of success 5 on 5. Even still, both are producing points at a pretty good clip. So if you are going to give Neal a plus for burying his chances but not playing a complete game, you need to do the same for Malkin. Hence why people have them both at ='s.
That's only if you have the same expectations for Neal and Malkin. I definitely don't. Malkin is capable of far better than he's shown so far this season(and he'll get back there eventually). But Neal is a pure sniper/trigger-man. Finishing his chances and making the occasional nice pass is about what I expect from him and, so far, that's what he's done. There's a reason Geno will likely be making over 4 million more per year than Neal pretty soon.


Last edited by TheSniper26: 03-06-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old
03-06-2013, 08:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
It kind of is. The goalies are scambling because they are trying to cover up for a defense thats scrambling in front of them with shots just being thrown on net from everywhere.

A lot of teams seem to overload one side of the ice when the puck is there but I think its nonsense and just leads to mistakes. The worst of all is that the Pens use their defense to double up on pucks while playing a zone defense. Then when things don't go their way the defense has to scramble back into position leading to mass confusion.

Look at all the backdoor goals scored on MAF last playoff. He's so worried about going side to side to shut the back door that he can't focus on pucks. Then he overplays pucks and starts looking sloppy while allowing bad goals.

I hate an overactive D. Flat out hate it. Its 90's Caps way of thinking and it was garbage then. I understand that the pens like coming up the wall and when that gets taken away the players deep in the defensive zone have to carry the puck but when the defense has to carry the puck up the ice, force plays all over the ice and double up with his partner its to friggin much.
You make it seem like the goalie has nothing to do with the goals and it's all about the D in front of them.

At some point the goalie needs to make the saveable saves, period. Doesn't matter if he faces 50 shots or 10 shots. If it's saveable then he has to make it.

That Gionto Goal was pathetic, a short stop would have caught that. That Prust goal, Vokoun deflected the rebound in front of the net into the slot. Isn't rebound control one of Vokoun's strengths? That Voracek GWG, why wasn' the in position hugging the post? This is Brent Johnson all over again and the D can't take blame for every bad goal.

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Old
03-06-2013, 08:52 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
You make it seem like the goalie has nothing to do with the goals and it's all about the D in front of them.

At some point the goalie needs to make the saveable saves, period. Doesn't matter if he faces 50 shots or 10 shots. If it's saveable then he has to make it.

That Gionto Goal was pathetic, a short stop would have caught that. That Prust goal, Vokoun deflected the rebound in front of the net into the slot. Isn't rebound control one of Vokoun's strengths? That Voracek GWG, why wasn' the in position hugging the post? This is Brent Johnson all over again and the D can't take blame for every bad goal.
You're right, you can't blame the D for every bad goal. In the Montreal game, I thought the 5th and 6th goals were clearly on Vokoun. The 1st goal was about 50% on Vokoun kicking the rebound right to Prust and 50% on Orpik for doing nothing about Prust being there. However, I do believe that tightening up their defensive play would lead to improved goaltending.

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Old
03-06-2013, 09:56 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Good comparison with the Caps. I was going to post that the other day but didn't want ridiculed. I think this team is playing like the Caps. Winning on talent but the structure makes zero sense. I hate it.

And not only the 90s Caps... I feel like they are playing similar to 2008-2010 Caps.
This is what I'm thinking.

Sid, Geno, Neal, MAF and Kuni are basically winning games despite DB and his system as opposed to because of it.

What pisses me off is that all the wins just elongate DB's tenure here.

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:44 AM
  #37
ColePens
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We COULD hire Adam Oates.

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