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The All-Purpose Goaltending Thread #8

View Poll Results: Should we use an amnesty buyout on Bryz?
Hell Yes! 65 72.22%
Hell No! 25 27.78%
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Old
03-06-2013, 12:36 PM
  #326
spudnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Bryz probably should not attempt the poke check as much on breakaways.
going back to last year, though ?

2 power moves by Nash & Callahan .... both guys in all alone ..... many of your videos were defensive breakdowns. that said, I'd like to see Bryz poke check less.

here are some gems, too ... all from THIS YEAR, by "elite" goalies

Stanley Cup Champ & Conn Smythe winner Quick:
http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...ed-share-video

http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...ed-share-video

All World Mike Smith:
http://video.coyotes.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

http://video.coyotes.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

Mr. .940 sv% from last year Elliot:
http://video.blues.nhl.com/videocent...ed-share-video

the stud Schneider:
http://video.canucks.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

the great Luongo:
http://video.canucks.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

http://video.canucks.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

All-Everything Hank:
http://video.rangers.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video

http://video.rangers.nhl.com/videoce...ed-share-video
JUST STOP!!!! [mod]He played great the first 15 games yes but if he has proven anything is that he CANNOT maintain that play. He can be spectacular to down right horrible. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with this guy. The only consistant thing about him is that he is inconsistant. We CANNOT be burdened with that contract and inconsistant play for 7 more years. It doesn't matter who is out there to take his spot. Buy him out and find someone because seriously I dont think it would be that hard to find a goalie more consistant than him. I would take an average going who is constantly average to a one extreme to another goalie. If we are all talking about this on a message board you can imagine how his teammates, coaches and management feel, although they wont come out and say it to the media.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 03-06-2013 at 12:39 PM. Reason: nope
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03-06-2013, 12:40 PM
  #327
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post

I don't consider Smith, Elliot, or Schneider elite. Quick and Luongo are boarder line elite you can make a case for either way. Hank's hands down the best goalie in the NHL. But honestly I don't care what they do because none of them play for the Flyers.
that's fine, but all of those names were mentioned as upgrades over Bryz last year. Not caring what other goalies do is 1 thing. Not seeing that Bryz isn't the only goalie who gives up bad goals is another.

And, I agree, in general i'd like to see Bryz poke check less on breakaways. About as much as i'd like the Flyers to stop leaving guys wide open so often.

other than that, i'm still more concerned about the apparent lack of urgency shown by this team, and not by the goaltending.

and, i don't want to hear the "tired" excuse. then practice less.

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03-06-2013, 12:43 PM
  #328
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by spudnick View Post
JUST STOP!!!! [mod]He played great the first 15 games yes but if he has proven anything is that he CANNOT maintain that play.
there is room for more than 1 opinion here. but the post you quoted does clearly show every goalie lets in "bad goals"

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03-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
there is room for more than 1 opinion here. but the post you quoted does clearly show every goalie lets in "bad goals"
Nobody claims goalies don't let in bad goals, that's a strawman. The issue here is that Bryz lets in more than a lot of other goalies.

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03-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
there is room for more than 1 opinion here. but the post you quoted does clearly show every goalie lets in "bad goals"
No one is saying other goalie dont let in bad goal because they do, its just that Bryz seems to let in more then average for a goalie with his contract. He is getting franchise money/contract for 7 more years and is playing great to horrible. Its just to long to be tied up in a contract like that. We can thank our lucky stars that the new CBA gave us an amnesty buy out claus. Personally I think the Flyers should pull the band aid off fast (buy him out this summer) then letting this go on for another season.

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03-06-2013, 12:57 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Not trying to make excuses here for Bryz. Does anybody think Jeff Reese could be the problem here?

I know Reese hasn't had the best of goalies to work with here during his tenure. But Bryz seems to be regressing ever since he got here. I know he worked with Sean Burke in Phoenix and he's considered one of the best in the business. Would it be worth trying to get someone like Burke in here to replace Reese?
I think it's exactly what many people warned us about prior to Bryz's arrival and have been trumpeting since Bryz started struggling: HE IS A SYSTEM GOALIE.

Bryzgalov is generally really good at stopping stuff when he is square to the puck and can see it cleanly. He also generally gets confidence throughout a game when he's making a ton of saves (even if they are easy ones), while he struggles big time with rebound control, lateral movement, and breakaways. So Phoenix's system was pretty much designed to fit Bryzgalov to a T. Phoenix was continually among the league-worst in shots-against and during his last 2 years in Phoenix where he posted elite level stats, Phoenix was also among the league-worst at blocking shots. That was by design. Phoenix gave up a lot of shots on goal, but they kept things (mostly) to the outside and by not going down to block shots, they ensured Bryz had clean sight-lines. They also played a very conservative trap-like system, which meant that they were caught in less odd-man situations. The result was decent stats from Bryzgalov. Of course, over the same 2 years where Bryz looked elite, Jason LaBarbera posted nearly identical stats. Over roughly 1800 minutes, LaBarbera posted a .919 save %, whereas Bryz posted .9207. And of course, Mike Smith (a career backup/platoon goalie )has gone on to post a .930 save % the season after Bryz left.

Bryzgalov is a bad fit for this system and really for any offensive system. And while I could see us perhaps getting rid of Laviolette, I really hope we don't attempt to "waste" guys like Giroux, Voracek, B. Schenn, etc. by instituting a trap style.

The bottom line is that Bryzgalov should be bought out this offseason. 2 years is a long enough time-period to see that he's not consistent enough to lead this team anywhere. Regardless of the goalies who are UFAs, he shouldn't be given a 3rd year.

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03-06-2013, 01:01 PM
  #332
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Remember when Marty Biron put up back-to-back 0.915 save percentage seasons (second was actually 0.918) and the fan base laughed when he asked for $5M/year?

Those were the days.

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03-06-2013, 01:02 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Nobody claims goalies don't let in bad goals, that's a strawman. The issue here is that Bryz lets in more than a lot of other goalies.
Bryzgalov lets in softie after softie over multiples games; BP1974 posts same 5-6 videos of "elite" goalies struggling each time. Says that it happens to all goalies, totally ignores the fact that those videos show 1 isolated incident each while it's happened to Bryz double-digit times this year alone already.

This is why we're on Bryz thread #8 and steaming quickly towards #9.

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03-06-2013, 01:04 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
there is room for more than 1 opinion here. but the post you quoted does clearly show every goalie lets in "bad goals"
Anecdotal evidence and strawman arguments. Everyone knows goalies aren't perfect 100% of the time and let in bad goals, you don't have to prove that. And yes, Bryz did play well in the beginning of the season. He also played well last March. But for the majority of his time here he's played like ****, and is usually reliable for AT LEAST 1 soft goal a game. He makes bad decisions, and you can't blame that on the team's play.

It's not the fact that he lets in goals that every goalie lets in sometimes, it's that he lets them in way more often than other goalies and generally can't be relied on to make big saves when we need them.

Saving any one of those three **** goals from the Rangers would have kept us in it. Like Giroux said in the post-game, these goals that he lets in rob the team of any momentum and force the team to have to come back after these morale-deflating goal. Nash's first came after a nice shift by the Flyers where it was looking like we were getting some momentum going. If Bryz makes a big play there, it continues our momentum. He doesn't however, lets in a soft goal without even reacting, puts us in a hole, and robs us of the momentum we already had. Sure, there was a terrible line change. But the goalie we expect him to be should make those kind of saves. That was 3 goals on 15 shots at that point.

And if that's too anecdotal for you, I can show you the stats but you won't like them.

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03-06-2013, 01:04 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Remember when Marty Biron put up back-to-back 0.915 save percentage seasons (second was actually 0.918) and the fan base laughed when he asked for $5M/year?

Those were the days.
Well, so did the rest of the league

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03-06-2013, 01:05 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
I think it's exactly what many people warned us about prior to Bryz's arrival and have been trumpeting since Bryz started struggling: HE IS A SYSTEM GOALIE.
that doesn't explain his strong start: the Flyers were still playing their normal awful defense then, too. he was just able to overcome it, then. Now, not as much. that said: he's won 3 of 5.

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03-06-2013, 01:08 PM
  #337
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Saving any one of those three **** goals from the Rangers would have kept us in it.
just as the team D not breaking down as much would have.
just as the team scoring [get this new concept] an even strength goal would have.

Bryz did exactly that in the 2-1 win vs NYR earlier in the year.

i'm sorry if i'm not panicking about the goaltending.

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03-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #338
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Well, so did the rest of the league


True enough.

I was just thinking back to a time when we were worrying about overpaying for a goalie who was putting up respectble numbers instead of arguing about overpaying a goalie who isn't.

I much preferred the former.

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03-06-2013, 01:11 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Bryzgalov lets in softie after softie over multiples games
yet somehow has won 3 of 5. and has been a top 3 best Flyer this year.

who would you start vs Pitt ?

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03-06-2013, 01:12 PM
  #340
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yet somehow has won 3 of 5. and has been a top 3 best Flyer this year.

who would you start vs Pitt ?
3 of 5 and 11 of 22...

The only answer is to start Bryz; the Flyers don't have another NHL capable goalie.

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03-06-2013, 01:25 PM
  #341
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The only answer is to start Bryz; the Flyers don't have another NHL capable goalie.
agreed. i'm not sure there can be any debate on that, honestly. no matter how much we complain about him on poke checks, or contesting that he gives up more 'softies' than other goalies, he's our goalie. He was able to overcome this teams deficiencies on D earlier in the year, but not as much now.

all in all, i'm more concerned about the team D & lack of effort by the forwards than i am the netminding.

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03-06-2013, 01:28 PM
  #342
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The team D really isn't that bad. It looks worse than it should because there are nights where any mistake ends up in the net.

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03-06-2013, 01:31 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
3 of 5 and 11 of 22...

The only answer is to start Bryz; the Flyers don't have another NHL capable goalie.
I start Boosh actually, Bryz dont deserve to play. If we are using being tired as an excuse, he has to rest. Bryz gives us yest effort and the Pens put up double digit goals. The Rangers had 8 damn scoring chances and scored 4, Pens could have 20 scoring chances.

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03-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
agreed. i'm not sure there can be any debate on that, honestly. no matter how much we complain about him on poke checks, or contesting that he gives up more 'softies' than other goalies, he's our goalie. He was able to overcome this teams deficiencies on D earlier in the year, but not as much now.

all in all, i'm more concerned about the team D & lack of effort by the forwards than i am the netminding.
20 shots, 8 scoring chances !!!!! I mean I guess they should of held them to 10 shots and 2 scoring chances and we could of won.

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03-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #345
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or not allowed the 2 scoring chances with Nash & Callahan coming in alone.

they are 2 pts behind 7th place [NJD has 1 game in hand]


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-06-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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03-06-2013, 01:45 PM
  #346
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20 shots, 8 scoring chances !!!!! I mean I guess they should of held them to 10 shots and 2 scoring chances and we could of won.
There's no use arguing with the guy

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03-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #347
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You seem to be taking all goalies in a vacuum, when they really aren't. If Bryz was making 3m a year there would be no argument. However, he's making near 6. He is expected to bail the team out of at least a few of the defensive breakdowns at that salary.

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03-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #348
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It's the same reason that a specialist is regarded to be able to diagonse and treat special maladies that a general doctor can't. Bryz was regarded as a specialist.

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03-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #349
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There's no use arguing with the guy
I am a Bryz supporter too, but there is no way to defend yesterdays game. No team will play perfect defensively, no goalie gets a pass on a goal because the team ****ed up. He has to make saves in big games vs teams behind us in the standings.

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03-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #350
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bryzgalov sucked last night but the flyers team defense is pretty bad. they play the same feel good game the penguins do. which depends on trying to get into a back and forth offensively aggressive in all zones game that teams like the rangers who are more patient and opportunistic love to laugh at. (the penguins are better at it so not so much at them.) bryzgalov let in two weak ones last night but they were also created from two lazy defensive plays. situations where everyone reacted wrong. a team is a machine and the problem i have with the criticism is not the critique of his goals its the insinuation that he is somehow the weak link on this powerhouse of a team. he's one of our strongest components. this week was gonna suck no matter what. its all about being a realist (as a fan i mean). penguins, bruins, were doomed. there's some sunshine for ya.

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