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Ryan Jones to Habs for 3rd and Weber

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:48 PM
  #26
Horseradish
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Oilers fan, and I'd do it. Addresses a need for both teams, and Edmonton's defence is more of a concern than its 3rd line at this point.

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03-06-2013, 01:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Potter is as much of a puck mover as Weber. We don't need another bottom 6 d-man, we need top 4 guys.

Jones is also one of a few that goes in tough areas and gives 110% every shift. He can be had, but not for guys that add very little.
Jones is not anywhere close to the value necessary to get an established top 4 defenceman in the NHL. Jones might get you a young guy with top 4 potential. In any case, Jones is not the kind of guy we need. He is definitely not the kind of guy you overpay for, either. Just like Eager. Nice complementary fourth liners, but nothing special.

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03-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Jones is not anywhere close to the value necessary to get an established top 4 defenceman in the NHL. Jones might get you a young guy with top 4 potential. In any case, Jones is not the kind of guy we need. He is definitely not the kind of guy you overpay for, either. Just like Eager. Nice complementary fourth liners, but nothing special.
4th liners don't score 18 goals. Jones himself might not get us that top 4, but we don't need another #7 dman. Jones actually plays an everyday role for us.

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03-06-2013, 02:58 PM
  #29
WeridAl
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Oilers fan, and I'd do it. Addresses a need for both teams, and Edmonton's defence is more of a concern than its 3rd line at this point.
Weber would end up being place on waivers, how does this address a problem with Oilers when Potter is a better PMD then Weber.

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03-06-2013, 04:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Weber would end up being place on waivers, how does this address a problem with Oilers when Potter is a better PMD then Weber.
Potter is better than Weber based on what, exactly? Shall we compare as we dare from last year?

Weber: 24 years old, ESTOI: 11:54, PKTOI: :52, PPTOI: 2:49, 60 Games, 4 goals 14 assists, -7, 49 hits, 47 blocked shots

Potter: 29 years old, ESTOI: 16:36, PKTOI: :51, PPTOI: 2:28, 62 games, 4 goals, 17 assists, -16, 90 hits, 79 blocked shots.

So, Potter, a "BETTER PMD" than Weber scored a whopping 4 more assists than Weber while playing 2 more games and averaging over 4:42 more TOI per game than Weber. Should we even comment on the fact that Potter is 5 years older than Weber? How do we feel about Potter's being -16 to Weber's -7? Heck, Potter is so much better than Weber that Potter and Weber have the exact same point totals this season even though Potter has played 13 games to Weber's 1.

Weber's ONLY problem is that he is playing on a team that has 3 superior PMD in Subban, Markov and Diaz, as well as having a coach who trusts a veteran PMD (Kaberle) more than he does a young guy like Weber.

Wow, the way some Oilers fans overvalue every single player on their team one would think the Oilers won the Cup for the last 4 years and were 1st place overall this season, rather than being in 12th in their conference. Yes, if Weber were traded to Edmonton someone would be put on waivers. I think you would be very surprised at who, though. Think about the 29 year old "better" PMD with the same number of points as the 24 year old who has played 12 less games... Potter "better" than Weber...sigh...

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03-06-2013, 04:56 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Potter is better than Weber based on what, exactly? Shall we compare as we dare from last year?

Weber: 24 years old, ESTOI: 11:54, PKTOI: :52, PPTOI: 2:49, 60 Games, 4 goals 14 assists, -7, 49 hits, 47 blocked shots

Potter: 29 years old, ESTOI: 16:36, PKTOI: :51, PPTOI: 2:28, 62 games, 4 goals, 17 assists, -16, 90 hits, 79 blocked shots.

So, Potter, a "BETTER PMD" than Weber scored a whopping 4 more assists than Weber while playing 2 more games and averaging over 4:42 more TOI per game than Weber. Should we even comment on the fact that Potter is 5 years older than Weber? How do we feel about Potter's being -16 to Weber's -7? Heck, Potter is so much better than Weber that Potter and Weber have the exact same point totals this season even though Potter has played 13 games to Weber's 1.

Weber's ONLY problem is that he is playing on a team that has 3 superior PMD in Subban, Markov and Diaz, as well as having a coach who trusts a veteran PMD (Kaberle) more than he does a young guy like Weber.

Wow, the way some Oilers fans overvalue every single player on their team one would think the Oilers won the Cup for the last 4 years and were 1st place overall this season, rather than being in 12th in their conference. Yes, if Weber were traded to Edmonton someone would be put on waivers. I think you would be very surprised at who, though. Think about the 29 year old "better" PMD with the same number of points as the 24 year old who has played 12 less games... Potter "better" than Weber...sigh...
PMD's primary benefit is being able to start a good breakout and/or join the rush when needed. This doesn't mean we see Potter, who is on our 3rd pairing normally, as some sort of point generator. Take a look at that comparison one more time. More blocked shots, more TOI. Small indicators of effort and responsibility.

And we don't necessarily like Potter all that much either. Look how identical their stats are. He's high on a lot of fans' naughty lists. So why on earth would we give up a great energy player in Jones who actually brings it every night for Potter v2.0?

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03-06-2013, 04:56 PM
  #32
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Edmonton fan here.

Nobody is worse than Potter.

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03-06-2013, 05:02 PM
  #33
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Montreal fan here. Weber is not gonna solve your problems either. We know Jones is a character player but he isn't gonna solve our problems so it just doesn't suit either teams needs.

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03-06-2013, 05:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
PMD's primary benefit is being able to start a good breakout and/or join the rush when needed. This doesn't mean we see Potter, who is on our 3rd pairing normally, as some sort of point generator. Take a look at that comparison one more time. More blocked shots, more TOI. Small indicators of effort and responsibility.

And we don't necessarily like Potter all that much either. Look how identical their stats are. He's high on a lot of fans' naughty lists. So why on earth would we give up a great energy player in Jones who actually brings it every night for Potter v2.0?
You should note last season Potter face a lot tougher competition then Weber. Weber is not the answer for a team the relies on their D for toughness, so comparing the stats between the 2 doesn't make a lot of sense.

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03-06-2013, 05:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
PMD's primary benefit is being able to start a good breakout and/or join the rush when needed. This doesn't mean we see Potter, who is on our 3rd pairing normally, as some sort of point generator. Take a look at that comparison one more time. More blocked shots, more TOI. Small indicators of effort and responsibility.

And we don't necessarily like Potter all that much either. Look how identical their stats are. He's high on a lot of fans' naughty lists. So why on earth would we give up a great energy player in Jones who actually brings it every night for Potter v2.0?
No, the reason Weber had less TOI is because he was a young defenceman playing for Jacques Martin, someone notorious for not wanting to give younger players important playing time, even when they deserve it. Yes, Potter had more blocked shots. Check out how much more time he played, though. That is an important indicator of Potter getting more time with which to be able to block shots.

Potter was on the ice for 1246 total minutes last season and had 79 blocked shots for a 1 to 15 ratio (hits to minutes).

Weber was on the ice for 937 total minutes last season and had 47 blocked shots for a 1 to 19 ratio (hits to minutes). In other words, when you compare apples to apples, Weber seems to be the better shot blocker which you seem to indicate would make him the harder working player.

Give Weber the chance he will, unfortunately, not get in Montreal, and it will be Potter, the 29 year old, who will get waived long before 24 year old improving Weber would. I am not saying Weber would be on your top pairing, but he is far better than a lot of people (including many Habs' fans) realize. On the right team, with the right partner, Weber can become a top 4 guy. Montreal is NOT that team. Heck, Edmonton might not be that team, either. However, Weber is an upgrade to Potter.

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Old
03-06-2013, 05:26 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
You should note last season Potter face a lot tougher competition then Weber. Weber is not the answer for a team the relies on their D for toughness, so comparing the stats between the 2 doesn't make a lot of sense.
Well, I can see why statistics would bother you since Weber actually averaged more hits than Potter as well. Listen, as I stated and have demonstrated, Weber is younger than Potter and looks like the better defenceman if they were to play the same type of minutes.

Now, saying Weber is not the type of defenceman Edmonton needs is a far more accurate statement than claiming potter is "better" and that Weber would be waived before Potter.

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03-06-2013, 05:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Yuck. Jones adds nothing to the Habs, the ONLY thing the Habs bottom 6 needs is somebody that can take on the heavyweights in our division.
this. peoples start thread about middleweight or gritty player. Its not what the habs need.They have enough middleweight in Prust,White and Moen. They need someone bigger

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03-06-2013, 07:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
Montreal doesn't do this. Jones doesn't bring anything more than what Moen brings.
Jones is twice the player Moen is. If MTL fans feel he wouldn't bring much to their team that is fine but some of these comments are pretty dumb. Jones has scored more goals than Moen's had points the past couple years. Jones is like a poor man's Glencross. Someone any team would love to have.

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03-06-2013, 08:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Jones is twice the player Moen is. If MTL fans feel he wouldn't bring much to their team that is fine but some of these comments are pretty dumb. Jones has scored more goals than Moen's had points the past couple years. Jones is like a poor man's Glencross. Someone any team would love to have.
Can Jones fight at all ?

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03-06-2013, 09:31 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Well, yes it is unrealistic because Jones is one of the few bright spots on our team and that offer is terrible. I can't believe a Montreal fan said "yuck" to this. Give me a break, this is insulting to Edmonton. Weber is not an upgrade on Whitney, Potter or Peckham. Adding him without trading a D back gives us 9 defenseman. That 3rd round pick is useless to us.
It is insulting. I'd do this deal 438948938934 times out of 10.

I would love Jones on our team and I get why you want to keep him, when you get someone like that you hold on to him for a damn long time

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03-06-2013, 09:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Jones is twice the player Moen is. If MTL fans feel he wouldn't bring much to their team that is fine but some of these comments are pretty dumb. Jones has scored more goals than Moen's had points the past couple years. Jones is like a poor man's Glencross. Someone any team would love to have.
I agreed with you on your first post... But Moen is our second best P.K. specialist. They both bring different things to the table.

(He's the superior player but lets not sell Moen short please.)

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03-06-2013, 09:43 PM
  #42
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Have zero interest in wheeling Jones and would much rather extend him. It would also make very little sense to trade a pick for Brown with the reasoning that we aren't gritty enough, then turn around and trade our next grittiest player for a pick.

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03-06-2013, 11:09 PM
  #43
Joey Moss
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Can Jones fight at all ?
Not anymore after his eye injury.

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03-06-2013, 11:57 PM
  #44
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Not anymore after his eye injury.
I don't know about that, the Jones I've watched wouldn't let it stop him. Is the eye fully heeled and is any worry of it getting injured in a fight. Now a days how many fights you see and the fighters remove their helmets.

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03-07-2013, 03:09 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I agreed with you on your first post... But Moen is our second best P.K. specialist. They both bring different things to the table.

(He's the superior player but lets not sell Moen short please.)
And Jones is key to our PK... All Moen brings is less offense (I'm not saying Moen is crap, but Jones is a drastically better player)

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03-07-2013, 03:24 AM
  #46
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ryan jones is too solid for the oilers to trade unless its a massive overpayment.. on top of his offensive abilities, he's not small at 6'1 205, has a decent +/-, he also blocks alot of shots, hits alot, doesnt miss much when he shoots the puck on net, he crashes the crease, doesnt give the puck away, screens the goalie, and chirps.. not to mention hes great on the pk, and a great character guy in the dressing room.. hes everything this team needs and unless we get someone back with hair as good as his, we likely would keep him


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03-07-2013, 03:32 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Potter is better than Weber based on what, exactly? Shall we compare as we dare from last year?

Weber: 24 years old, ESTOI: 11:54, PKTOI: :52, PPTOI: 2:49, 60 Games, 4 goals 14 assists, -7, 49 hits, 47 blocked shots

Potter: 29 years old, ESTOI: 16:36, PKTOI: :51, PPTOI: 2:28, 62 games, 4 goals, 17 assists, -16, 90 hits, 79 blocked shots.

So, Potter, a "BETTER PMD" than Weber scored a whopping 4 more assists than Weber while playing 2 more games and averaging over 4:42 more TOI per game than Weber. Should we even comment on the fact that Potter is 5 years older than Weber? How do we feel about Potter's being -16 to Weber's -7? Heck, Potter is so much better than Weber that Potter and Weber have the exact same point totals this season even though Potter has played 13 games to Weber's 1.

Weber's ONLY problem is that he is playing on a team that has 3 superior PMD in Subban, Markov and Diaz, as well as having a coach who trusts a veteran PMD (Kaberle) more than he does a young guy like Weber.

Wow, the way some Oilers fans overvalue every single player on their team one would think the Oilers won the Cup for the last 4 years and were 1st place overall this season, rather than being in 12th in their conference. Yes, if Weber were traded to Edmonton someone would be put on waivers. I think you would be very surprised at who, though. Think about the 29 year old "better" PMD with the same number of points as the 24 year old who has played 12 less games... Potter "better" than Weber...sigh...

Looking at Webers hits and blocked shots stats, if he were traded to edmonton its likely that he would be put on waivers

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03-07-2013, 06:28 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
Looking at Webers hits and blocked shots stats, if he were traded to edmonton its likely that he would be put on waivers
Given Potter ice time, you're more looking at a 70 hits / 70 blocked shots ratio. Not terrible.

Also Weber, on a powerplay is the guy taking the shot on the net, dunno if that could be valuable in Edmonton. It's not in Montreal with Subban in front of him.

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03-07-2013, 07:53 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
Looking at Potter's hits and blocked shots stats, if he were playing for edmonton its likely that he would be put on waivers
Fixed it.

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