HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > Canadian Junior Hockey > OHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 8)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #401
aresknights
Registered User
 
aresknights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: london
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I'm sorry but that makes very little sense to me. Players improve from year to year not all players stay static. Going by this theory you wouldn't believe the Soo could improve from last year because after all Cousins, Fritsch, Broll, Alderson, Sproul, Miller, Murray were all part of a poor team last year that didn't make the playoffs.

I guess you're not a big believer in improvement from players.
Are you comparing that talent to what windsor returns? I'd take that Soo group 10 outta 10.
The Soos improvement did not come from being a year older, as the first third of the season proved. It was a COACHING change. Period.
All my point is - stats don't tell whole story, # of returnees doesn't tell the whole story. No one factor tells the whe story but yet someone just keeps regurgitating the same 2
Pts without allowing to consider other factors.

aresknights is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 01:17 PM
  #402
youngblood10
Registered User
 
youngblood10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 527
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
At the end of the day will the committee go into the level of situational analysis that you have or will the just say both teams are returning adequate players and this one achieved a lot more than that one? I guess we'll see.
Nothing has to be analyzed, this isn't the Knights' bid.

youngblood10 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #403
punch1943
Registered User
 
punch1943's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
The Spits also have players highly touted/draftred ie Brown,Verbeek who did not see alot of ice time either,Hosang I expect to improve
I think the committee will look at all aspects situational and otherwise for both teams
they will try to project how the respecitive teams will do without the safety nets of
Schiefele.Camara,Koko?Aleardi,goatending for both with 18 year olds as the possible leading guys,rarely do 18 year olds lead their teams in goal
No doubt both teams are returning adequate players and i think the committee will
ultimately decide who can put together a more competitive team with all factors considered,especially the potential of all the players involved
Lots of very good points have been made in the last dozen or so posts and good arguments made that all three teams would be competitive in 2014 but IMHO the deciding factor is this. The Spits were caught cheating and admitted they were in violation of league rules. The OHL would appear to be, in the eyes of many fans, rewarding the Spitfires and downplaying the cheating scandal.

If then,the steering committee awards the Memorial Cup to either Barrie or London, London irregardless of hosting in the not too distant past, will be awarded the Memorial Cup hosting based on the almighty $$$.

punch1943 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #404
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Are you comparing that talent to what windsor returns? I'd take that Soo group 10 outta 10.
The Soos improvement did not come from being a year older, as the first third of the season proved. It was a COACHING change. Period.
All my point is - stats don't tell whole story, # of returnees doesn't tell the whole story. No one factor tells the whe story but yet someone just keeps regurgitating the same 2
Pts without allowing to consider other factors.
Your are correct stats dont tell the whole story,for instance lesser talented players playing with skill players will get more pts usually then playing with players of the same caliber,or younger skill players will get more pts then those of a similiar skill who play on a team with less skilled players because the checkers are playing against the high skill older guys,where as a team with less skill guys ,the younger skill guys dont have that safety net that older more skill teams have
As well injuries play a huge role ,as in the case of Windsor missing 2 of their top Defensive Dmen for a long stretch post trade deadline other players mostly younger
are forced to play roles, that are currently not suited for for example 1-2 pairings when they should be 4-5-6 guys,case in pt Ebert and Murphy more suited to 3 and 5 pairing roles,playing top 2 minutes against better teams players regularly as opposed to less often,and while this experience should pay off,its more short term pain,long term gain
People will look at Windsor"s record and say what a lousy team when in fact its not the case at all,as I mentioned before the 1st 30 games spits were 12-12-1-5,
with real problems scoring goals both defensively were better then ave with both goalies ave below 3.13,a 7 game slump ensued ,trades were made to beef up the scoring at the deadline,which occurred with additions of Koko,Aleardi,Koekkoek and Giftoppolous, spits went on a 5-0-0-1 run,injuries started to occur culminating in over
82 man games missed over a 24 game period excluding suspensions when just compounded things
It should be noted during the 1st 30 games there were less then 10 man games missed due to injury huge difference to what has occurred
Players have been playing roles not suited to their skill set promarily because of age and experience ie 16 year olds top 1-2-3 minutes
When this team was healthy they were competitive the record shows it
The fact that all players except Aleardi and Koko can return next yr not they will
4 or 5 wont means they can as competitive with Barrie just not London at present
Definite additions especially upfront and goaltending need to occur
The same applies to Barrie as well

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 01:56 PM
  #405
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by punch1943 View Post
Lots of very good points have been made in the last dozen or so posts and good arguments made that all three teams would be competitive in 2014 but IMHO the deciding factor is this. The Spits were caught cheating and admitted they were in violation of league rules. The OHL would appear to be, in the eyes of many fans, rewarding the Spitfires and downplaying the cheating scandal.

If then,the steering committee awards the Memorial Cup to either Barrie or London, London irregardless of hosting in the not too distant past, will be awarded the Memorial Cup hosting based on the almighty $$$.
I agree with what u are saying,however Windsor is paying the price for their sins,and that should be the end of it,I am pretty sure the league figured the team would not be adversely affected this past yr and next to an extent,but by finshing out of the playoffs and losing the 4th overall pick is cruel fate indeed
For a league that does not trading 1st trading picks prior to a draft,the taking away of such is akin to eating its young and crippling a franchise to me is unfair
Everybody knows everybody cheats,Windsor"s problem was getting caught by their
loud arrogance
A fine large if u will and the loss of 2nd picks only would have sufficed imo
People have suggested Windsor go for it in 2017,what people forger is that they dont have a pick in the 1st rd of 2016,same situation as this year leading to a mem cup yr

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 02:29 PM
  #406
OHLTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: behind the lens
Posts: 3,812
vCash: 500
Almost wish the first this year had been Top 10 protected, meaning if the Spits finished within the top 10, they keep their pick. When they finish outside the top 10 (should be next year), the pick is gone. Perhaps putting a limit of three years on it (if they don't finish outside the top 10 by year three, that pick is gone).

OHLTG is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 03:11 PM
  #407
Knights77
Gongshow Ninja
 
Knights77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Section 314
Country: Canada
Posts: 771
vCash: 500
Im a bit shocked (and maybe misinterpreting some posts) to think that people might believe that Windsor or Barrie has better talent returning next year than the Knights. Obviously there are many unknowns (NHL draft etc) but if you average out the unknowns, on paper the Knights will ice the best team in the OHL next year if not the whole CHL. Thats an easy one and im sorry if it comes across as a homer comment, but pretty sure others outside the London area would agree too.
The ONLY two reasons that London wouldn't get the cup next year is either 1) Barrie puts up more guaranteed money (they city has backed them, where London's wont) OR 2) because it is viewed as 'too soon'. Thats it.
The success of 2005 is not lost on the committee and the team that the Knights put forward will be stellar, and better still after the trade deadline next year as we did NOTHING to empty our cupboards this year.
Windsor won't get the bid because they wont have a strong enough team. (my opinion)
I also strongly believe that Windsor should not be 'punished' further by not being considered due to its violations. If they wanted that to be part of the punishment, it should have been stated as 'x draft picks, x money, and no memorial cups for x years'. But it didn't so they should be considered just as any other team.

Knights77 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #408
aresknights
Registered User
 
aresknights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: london
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,682
vCash: 500
It started with a Barrie vs Windsor returnee thing. I think most see/ said knight return the most talent.

aresknights is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 03:33 PM
  #409
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
It started with a Barrie vs Windsor returnee thing. I think most see/ said knight return the most talent.
Correct strictly a Barrie vs Windsor comparison,with an admittance that the Knights
on paper have the best returning lineup

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 03:53 PM
  #410
Knights77
Gongshow Ninja
 
Knights77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Section 314
Country: Canada
Posts: 771
vCash: 500
Understood. In that case, down to those two teams I'd say its a very tough choice....glad I don't have to make it!

Knights77 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 05:17 PM
  #411
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knights77 View Post
Understood. In that case, down to those two teams I'd say its a very tough choice....glad I don't have to make it!
Yes if it comes down to these 2 teams not an easy choice for a variety of
reasons
Another stat to consider which I guarantee the committee will look at is
Barrie this year so have scored 221 goals,graduating players Scheifele,Camara,
Oconnor,Beyers and Fawcette take 105 goals with them leaving 116 goals by
returning players
Windsor on the other hand has scored 194 goals so far this season,graduating
players Aleardi,Koko and E.Clark take only 35 goals with them leaving 159 goals
by returning players
Both teams have to add to their forward core top 6 and bottom 6,as both teams 3rd
lines have returning have scored 6 goals each
It should be noted re Barrie "s 3rd line,2 players will be 19 years of age,and the forward
18 years old,while in Windsor"s case 2 forwards from the 3rd line will be 18, and the other forward Verbeek will be 17
Both teams will have to add a goalie with experience,Windsor if they dont bring back
Pavelka as I expect would then have 2 O/A openings,while Barrie with Lepkwski,
Hall and Theoret included would have to acquire or sign a 19 year old tender
Possible goalies may include Murray from the SSm for both,Dagostini an O/A for Windsor,Patterson from London to Barrie,Dansk from Erie for both
This could get interesting
I could see Dansk for either team

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 05:25 PM
  #412
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Not surprising news Spits Dman Patrick Seiloff has been shutdown for the season
as result of his injury which has limited him to 10 games of the past 24 since the trade deadline
In other news Spits announce D-man Adam Bateman will return tomorrow vs SSM after missing the last 6 games due to concussion

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 05:39 PM
  #413
Sec108
Registered User
 
Sec108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IHate LONDON COUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 743
vCash: 500
I say reward it to Barrie so they can showcase Ekblad and London got it in 05 so barrie would be logical choice.

as Windsor fans lets let go of the mem cup and move on.We'll get in it again when we win the O and from a season ticket holders point of view lets boycott any CHL event that we successfully took on in the past even in short notice.Boycott any event and make sure Branch gets the message that were sending.More money in our pockets in the end.We know what the score is now in the OHL and CHL.We know how corrupt it all is no matter which team we mention.

Case Closed!!!!!!

Sec108 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 05:45 PM
  #414
big papa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Not surprising news Spits Dman Patrick Seiloff has been shutdown for the season
as result of his injury which has limited him to 10 games of the past 24 since the trade deadline
In other news Spits announce D-man Adam Bateman will return tomorrow vs SSM after missing the last 6 games due to concussion
Glad to see Batter come back

big papa is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 05:58 PM
  #415
Sec108
Registered User
 
Sec108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IHate LONDON COUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
If London gets it it means that spending extra on players is a capital offense, but spending extra money to the league - well that's completely acceptable. So in order to keep parity in the league, richer teams cannot treat their players/families better - but they can take that extra revenue and pay off the league to host another Memorial Cup.
.
Nice post Otto.......don't you just love the hypocrisy?????

We all know it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$ !!!!!!!!

Sec108 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #416
aresknights
Registered User
 
aresknights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: london
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,682
vCash: 500
I still don't think London's a lock, regardless of any $ gaurantees. In fact I'd put them 2nd/3rd. Selfishly I'd love it, but could just imagine the love around the league for branch and the knights if they got it lol 😙
With the city not backing Londons bid with cash they may not have the highest either.
It would be interesting to see the bids made public so all could compare but I doubt the league wants that scrutiny.
However it turns out ill be trying to get a tic package and hope to do so when it's
In the O from here on out.

aresknights is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 08:06 PM
  #417
krazy kanuck
Registered User
 
krazy kanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
It started with a Barrie vs Windsor returnee thing. I think most see/ said knight return the most talent.
The only ways the Knights don't get it are:

a) Committee decides its too soon.
b) Committee decides that they have to back their words that the Cup can go to smaller centers.

On every other major objective criteria it's the Knights w/o much discussion.

krazy kanuck is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 08:16 PM
  #418
krazy kanuck
Registered User
 
krazy kanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,608
vCash: 500
One another comparison between the Colts and Spits...hopefully the Colts will have a reasonably long playoff run behind them by Mem Cup decision time, and a lot have the experience of two rounds and a 7 game series last year... Most Spits will have either limited (including Koekkoek) or no playoff experience... I would expect that to be viewed in terms of ability to play big games.

Again, the Knights trump both other teams in this regard.

krazy kanuck is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 08:31 PM
  #419
Sec108
Registered User
 
Sec108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IHate LONDON COUNTRY
Country: Canada
Posts: 743
vCash: 500
@Kanuck..........on this board its already a foregone conclusion that the Knights will get the bid.

Why dont you go over to the Knights board and tell THEM your findings and get all warm and fuzzy with them.

thx dude......

Sec108 is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 10:26 PM
  #420
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
One another comparison between the Colts and Spits...hopefully the Colts will have a reasonably long playoff run behind them by Mem Cup decision time, and a lot have the experience of two rounds and a 7 game series last year... Most Spits will have either limited (including Koekkoek) or no playoff experience... I would expect that to be viewed in terms of ability to play big games.

Again, the Knights trump both other teams in this regard.
While Koekkoek and others dont have experience,Seiloff has world jr experience which none of Colts would have plus vail,ebert,rychel,giftopoulous all have final 4 experience
and I am sure it helps any player going forward to play in important games

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 10:56 PM
  #421
krazy kanuck
Registered User
 
krazy kanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
While Koekkoek and others dont have experience,Seiloff has world jr experience which none of Colts would have plus vail,ebert,rychel,giftopoulous all have final 4 experience
and I am sure it helps any player going forward to play in important games
All the returning Colts should have final 4 experience by the time the vote happens

krazy kanuck is offline  
Old
03-06-2013, 11:07 PM
  #422
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
All the returning Colts should have final 4 experience by the time the vote happens
My guess is that the Colts get knocked out in rd 2

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-06-2013, 11:23 PM
  #423
hockeylegend11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,421
vCash: 500
Spits finally getting healthier with the return of Bateman to the lineup tomorrow,as well
winger Mitch Graham"s jr B team got knocked out the playoffs tonite,so he is available for the balance of the season
Also the La Salle Vipers are on the brink of elimination with Strathroy winning tonite 2-1,the 2nd straight game Spitfire property goalie Dalen Kuchmey has allowed only 1 per game as Strathroy leads 3-2 in that series
A La Salle loss at Strathroy on Saturday would free up Graehame Brown and Zack Percy
for the rest of season

hockeylegend11 is online now  
Old
03-07-2013, 09:05 AM
  #424
SimonKnightsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 281
vCash: 500
another article on this topic.

Donít punish London because they are good

By Morris Dalla Costa, The London Free Press

Wednesday, March 6, 2013 10:01:05 EST PM




London Knights

Memorial Cup

Let the nitpicking begin.

London held the Memorial Cup in 2005. They donít deserve to hold another one so soon.

Windsor wonít have a very good team next year and they were hit with an initial $400,000 fine and other penalties for violations of the Ontario Hockey League recruitment code. They donít deserve to hold the Memorial Cup because of that.

The Barrie Coltsí arena is too small and not modern enough. As a result, the big financial boost the Memorial Cup gives the league wonít be enough to make things better for the other 19 teams. If this is the second biggest showcase event in junior hockey, then they donít deserve to hold the Memorial Cup.

With the announcement that London, Barrie and Windsor are the three teams that will present in-person bids to an OHL selection committee April 17 for the 2014 Memorial Cup, the handicapping has begun.

If you are talking about benefits to a community, bringing a community together, inspiring pride in a community and bringing benefits to a community, the Memorial Cup is one of the best things that could happen to it in terms of sporting events, especially if the city truly cares about junior hockey.

The publicity and long-term return is worth the effort and expense. There may be shinier cars, but none that run as well or are as reliable.

There will be pros and cons tossed around like rice at a wedding.

It wonít be easy this time, but following a couple of basic rules is a good start.

No one deserves a Memorial Cup just because they havenít had it in a while or have never had it. That argument needs to be tossed out; just as the argument about a team having had it recently needs to be tossed out.

Being good shouldnít be a penalty.

Size of the facility shouldnít matter. The only thing that matters is the condition of the building. That said, a team canít have it both ways. If there isnít enough seating, they need to make up a financial shortfall in some other way.

It doesnít necessarily mean the highest financial guarantee needs to win, but that is a significant part of the bid process.

Given that only three teams decided to bid, junior hockey would be well-advised to have a look how the guidelines affect small-market teams.

Like the world junior hockey tournament, size does count, the size of the money bag and the size of the venue.

But whatever changes need to be made in the bid process, that is for another time, another bid. The rules are what they are right now and thatís how the bids need to be judged.

Hereís the handicapping in order of facilities. Remember that not everything in the bids is public. There may be something amazing in a bid that will turn the selection committeeís heads.

Venue: London, Windsor are in a tie with London getting the edge because of number of seats. Barrie is third.

Team: London will have the best team. Barrie is a strong second. This is where Windsor is going to have trouble. The Spitfires will likely miss the playoffs and the OHL does not want the host team getting their butt kicked on the national stage.

Profit: With reports that Windsor is getting some help from city and sponsors, they may have the best financial numbers. Londonís contribution to the OHL purse is a close second. Barrie will probably be the smallest.

Timing: Barrie has never held a Memorial Cup. Windsor last held it in 1981, London 2005.

Miscellaneous: All three franchises have staged a variety of junior hockey events. The last four OHL Memorial Cups have been held in larger centres: Ottawa, London, Kitchener, Mississauga. Windsor has to deal with the issue of their recruiting violation. The OHL says it wonít matter. That remains to be seen.

When it comes to selecting a 2014 Memorial Cup centre Windsor, Barrie and London would all do a great job, but that isnít the point.

There is a reason for guidelines. They are there to ensure the best possible site is selected on an ongoing basis to stage a major junior hockey event.

If you follow the guidelines the way they are now, the frontrunner must be London.

morris.dallacosta@sunmedia.ca

SimonKnightsman is offline  
Old
03-07-2013, 09:09 AM
  #425
SimonKnightsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec108 View Post
Nice post Otto.......don't you just love the hypocrisy?????

We all know it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$ !!!!!!!!
Ottomatic how do you know Windsor is not getting taxpayer money to stage event.
I have heard rumblings of this since Jan and it may or not be true .... but if it is then London really have done nothing wrong. They are getting a dime from anyone and having to fork over a huge bag of their own cash to stage this. Also in hopes of getting most back and that is dicey.

Who are the other donators in Windsor ? Has the Casino put up and funds....

SimonKnightsman is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.