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Old
03-06-2013, 11:50 AM
  #76
Teekko
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Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #77
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Klein View Post
Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn
No Spaling? Interesting. Take the guy out of the lineup that's not supposed to perform offensively. How about moving guys around or out that are supposed to offensive juggernauts and let them sit for a few and see how more motivated they are.

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Klein View Post
Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn
This would be a better setup.

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Old
03-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Smith can do everything offensively Leggy can. Mostly better though. Smith can dangle into the zone and make great entry passes. Leggy tried to bring the puck in last night, on the PP no less, and it instantly got stolen. He isnt worth the PP minutes. He shouldnt be on the PP.
Um, no. Even if Smith did everything better - and I don't think that's accurate - the challenge for Smith right now is judgement. It's fine to try stuff, etc, but.... if Leggy is gonna' "goof", it's gonna' be a safe goof - like dumping it in. Smith - oh, goodness, the trouble he can get in. I want Smith skating top 6 with responsible wings right now, but he certainly can't be "relied" upon now to make the right decisions, and in the specific case of the PP - his dangles and pushes result in too many turnovers where the best we get is they dump the puck down behind Peks and we gotta' start over.

Yes, has to play, learn from mistakes, etc. - PP isn't that place; skating with RClune probably isn't it, either.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #80
Top 6 Spaling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Klein View Post
Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn
No Spaling...that's stupid.

Put spals where Kostitsyn is IMO. I like the top 9 though.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:37 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Klein View Post
Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn
What kind of fourth line is that? What is the purpose of a line like that? I know Kostitsyn hasn't had the best of years, but he isn't going to get it going with Clune and Gaustad.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Um, no. Even if Smith did everything better - and I don't think that's accurate - the challenge for Smith right now is judgement. It's fine to try stuff, etc, but.... if Leggy is gonna' "goof", it's gonna' be a safe goof - like dumping it in. Smith - oh, goodness, the trouble he can get in. I want Smith skating top 6 with responsible wings right now, but he certainly can't be "relied" upon now to make the right decisions, and in the specific case of the PP - his dangles and pushes result in too many turnovers where the best we get is they dump the puck down behind Peks and we gotta' start over.

Yes, has to play, learn from mistakes, etc. - PP isn't that place; skating with RClune probably isn't it, either.
A dump in is essentially a turn over. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Old
03-06-2013, 12:56 PM
  #83
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
A dump in is essentially a turn over. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Watching Chicago last night, 80% of their offensive zone entries were dump ins, especially with Kane, they just have to speed to recover.

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Old
03-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
No Spaling...that's stupid.

Put spals where Kostitsyn is IMO. I like the top 9 though.
Though, at least is shows that SK is getting demoted. Let's see how much he enjoys playing with Goose and the grinder waiver pickup for 8 mins a night.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Watching Chicago last night, 80% of their offensive zone entries were dump ins, especially with Kane, they just have to speed to recover.
That's something a lot of people don't understand. You're much more likely to get forecheck set up if you dump it in. You just have to have three things to make it work:

1. Speed
2. Committment\willingness to win the puck battle
3. A good system to establish puck support, once you do get the puck

I think we have 1, sometimes we have 2, but 3 is lacking.

We can get in, win the puck, and sometimes even establish a cycle...but eventually someone holds on to the puck too long. If you're going to cycle, it needs to eventually produce a shot. Often, that's not the case with us...it just goes on endlessly until invariably we get boxed out and the play moves out of the zone.

I think part of the issue is the overload scheme we play, particularly up top. If opposing player can get the puck and reverse it, it's a surefire clear every time. Compare that to what we saw the Kings do, or the Blackhawks do, where they take away the boards.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Watching Chicago last night, 80% of their offensive zone entries were dump ins, especially with Kane, they just have to speed to recover.
Last night watching Van- SJ i saw hardly any dump ins. They kept possession and made tape to tape passes. The hawks also have Kane, Hossa, Toews plus they were up 4-1 by the 1st period. They didnt need to keep pressing on offense.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:28 PM
  #87
deansredhalo
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Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc View Post
That's something a lot of people don't understand. You're much more likely to get forecheck set up if you dump it in. You just have to have three things to make it work:

1. Speed
2. Committment\willingness to win the puck battle
3. A good system to establish puck support, once you do get the puck

I think we have 1, sometimes we have 2, but 3 is lacking.

We can get in, win the puck, and sometimes even establish a cycle...but eventually someone holds on to the puck too long. If you're going to cycle, it needs to eventually produce a shot. Often, that's not the case with us...it just goes on endlessly until invariably we get boxed out and the play moves out of the zone.

I think part of the issue is the overload scheme we play, particularly up top. If opposing player can get the puck and reverse it, it's a surefire clear every time. Compare that to what we saw the Kings do, or the Blackhawks do, where they take away the boards.
In regards to 3 -- eventually our guys just stop moving and are sitting still, just camped out, forcing a scramble or a dead-leg pass.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:55 PM
  #88
token grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Last night watching Van- SJ i saw hardly any dump ins. They kept possession and made tape to tape passes. The hawks also have Kane, Hossa, Toews plus they were up 4-1 by the 1st period. They didnt need to keep pressing on offense.
you must have only watched the last 5 min and OT then. That game wasn't wide open until then and they started trading chances left and right.

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Old
03-06-2013, 02:58 PM
  #89
predfan24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Klein View Post
Practice Lines:
Bourque - Legwand - Wilson
Erat - Smith - Butler
Boychuk - Fisher - Hornqvist
Clune - Gaustad - Kostitsyn
That has to be the ugliest mash up of players ever on the 4th line.

I do like the fact that SK finally has got demoted though. For those saying it's stupid to sit Spaling when he would make way more sense on that 4th line rather than SK I agree however I think this is one last effort to grab SK's attention and make him realize how dangerously close he is to being a permascratch and ruining his NHL career. Trotz probably is looking at it as a last resort to light a fire under his ass. I wouldn't be surprised if SK didn't care at all. He strikes me as a guy who is willing to spend the rest of his hockey career in Russia.

The other 3 lines look good to me.

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03-06-2013, 04:42 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
you must have only watched the last 5 min and OT then. That game wasn't wide open until then and they started trading chances left and right.
I watched the entire game it was one of the most fluid games I have seen this season. Its clearly obvious that both of those teams can put together a fluid game of hockey. There were hardly any dump ins there were tons of passes. Im sorry you think otherwise?

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Old
03-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #91
predfan24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
I watched the entire game it was one of the most fluid games I have seen this season. Its clearly obvious that both of those teams can put together a fluid game of hockey. There were hardly any dump ins there were tons of passes. Im sorry you think otherwise?
If a team is good at clogging up the neutral zone and standing up at the blue line often teams have no choice but to dump it in. To call it a turnover shows a lack of understanding. It's a strategy and a proven effective strategy. But just like any strategy if it's not executed right it's not going to work.

Those who have experience playing hockey can attest to it. I've played D pretty much my whole hockey career and I can't even explain how annoying it is when a team dumps the puck and a forward is on your back the whole way in. Even if you get to the puck first your back is turned to the play and it's very hard to make a good decision.

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Old
03-06-2013, 05:08 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
If a team is good at clogging up the neutral zone and standing up at the blue line often teams have no choice but to dump it in. To call it a turnover shows a lack of understanding. It's a strategy and a proven effective strategy. But just like any strategy if it's not executed right it's not going to work.

Those who have experience playing hockey can attest to it. I've played D pretty much my whole hockey career and I can't even explain how annoying it is when a team dumps the puck and a forward is on your back the whole way in. Even if you get to the puck first your back is turned to the play and it's very hard to make a good decision.
Dont get me wrong I am by no means saying the dump and chase cant be used. In fact when Wilson and Horny played on the same line they did it quite effectively. We just do it about every offensive zone entry now it seems and never win the puck battles, so yes, it essentially is a turnover when our team does it. Also we have no forcheck to pressure the D anyways, so it is a moot decision with the puck for us right now.

EDIT: I have played hockey for years as well, no need for a lesson on dumping a puck.

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Old
03-06-2013, 05:19 PM
  #93
Broom of the System
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
I watched the entire game it was one of the most fluid games I have seen this season. Its clearly obvious that both of those teams can put together a fluid game of hockey. There were hardly any dump ins there were tons of passes. Im sorry you think otherwise?
That San Jose team that has no trouble putting together a fluid game of hockey certainly has a hard time scoring. They're 28th in the NHL and only average about .2 goals per game more than us, and that's with Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Pavelski, etc...

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Old
03-06-2013, 05:33 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
That San Jose team that has no trouble putting together a fluid game of hockey certainly has a hard time scoring. They're 28th in the NHL and only average about .2 goals per game more than us, and that's with Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Pavelski, etc...
Did I praise either team for their scoring capabilities? No, I praised their puck possession. 2 different things...

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03-06-2013, 05:38 PM
  #95
predfan24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantbeatzPekka View Post
Dont get me wrong I am by no means saying the dump and chase cant be used. In fact when Wilson and Horny played on the same line they did it quite effectively. We just do it about every offensive zone entry now it seems and never win the puck battles, so yes, it essentially is a turnover when our team does it. Also we have no forcheck to pressure the D anyways, so it is a moot decision with the puck for us right now.

EDIT: I have played hockey for years as well, no need for a lesson on dumping a puck.
I agree our dump in's have not been effective because our forecheck is far too late arriving too the puck. I was just speaking of the dump in strat in general.

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