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Old
03-06-2013, 03:22 PM
  #26
Nihiliste
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Any trade of Stastny to Phoenix would only make sense if we were getting another soon-to-expire contract back, or if an extension could be negotiated ahead of time. Too much risk for Phoenix if he doesn't resign.

Personally I wouldn't want to add that much to an extended Staz for Yandle - he produces well offensively but doesn't play on the PK and doesn't play against top quality competition. Stastny on the other hand needs finishers with him to be successful - perhaps Boedker, Doan, or others could do that for him, I don't know. I think they're both flawed players, and wouldn't want to add a guy like Elliott to get Yandle. If that means no deal then so be it.

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Old
03-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #27
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TBH I'm not as high on getting Yandle like many Avs fans are. I'd much rather get Gormley in a deal for Stastny if the decision is made to trade him to the Yotes.

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Old
03-06-2013, 03:56 PM
  #28
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post

Nonetheless, here is my proposal to Yotes fans including Stastny:

To Colorado

Keith Yandle


To Phoenix

Paul Stastny
Stefan Elliott/2014 1st Round Pick
Ryan O'Byrne/Greg Zanon/Matt Hunwick
Michael Sgarbossa

Edit: Phoenix could add some minor players to make the contract structure of each team work out and not exceed the limit but nothing special, just minor league players
Hahahaha, ahhh no. Someone is overvaluing Yandle/Undervaluing Stastny a lot.

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Old
03-06-2013, 04:26 PM
  #29
Crisp Breakout
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
Again, I don't see a deal here - that's my argument. I think a third team would probably have to be brought in to make something work.

I likewise think Statsny is better than Gagner or Paajarvi. But I think those two combined are worth more than Statsny right now. And Maloney turned that down. So we know that in June, Yandle's value was more than Gagner + Paajarvi.

In the Carter trade, while a lifetime contract for Carter at the time was seen as sort of detrimental, it was also fairly affordable, if he could get back to the season prior's level of production. He also had a lot of playoff experience. In contrast, I would say that Statsny's current pay rate is well above his performance in both this, and last season's production, so I'm less inclined to think a return to form is going to be at the right price. And he has 1/3 of the playoff experience that Carter did at the time.

What about something for Yandle without Statsny?

Yandle + Phx 1st (~#18) for Col 1st (#?) + something else?
I think Stastny is worth more than the two combined. I don't think PRV has very much value at all. I'd guess a 2nd round pick. And in June, Gagner had played 5 full NHL seasons without hitting 50 points. So that rejected trade offer tells us very little.

And absolutely not on your proposed trade.

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Old
03-06-2013, 05:01 PM
  #30
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That is going to need to be a big "+"

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:07 PM
  #31
rt
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The only compelling reasons I've heard to trade Yandle are budgetary. This is only going to be a factor in one of two very unlikely events:

1. The Coyotes find local ownership in the next three months and stay in Phoenix long-term (10% chance)

2. The Coyotes are left to rot in Glendale for one more lame-duck season while the NHL gets relocation settled with other markets, in an effort to create a bidding war and maximize relocation fees (20% chance)

More likely (70% chance, I'd say) the team is either relocated in the next few months, or folded all together. In either case, trading Yandle is unnecessary.

If a hockey made, extremely wealthy guy like Don Levin who has a spendy reputation buys the team and moves them to Seattle, for example, it probably makes a lot more sense to look at dealing guys like Rundblad or Gormley for scoring help, and hanging onto the proven, albeit more expensive, Keith Yandle. The same idea applies if PKP buys the team and moves them to Quebec City. In this instance, however, it's even more likely that Yandle is retained because he'll need to take over as captain, as there is a zero percent chance Doan moves to Quebec. Which also, of course, clears Doan's salary off the books, making Yandle all of a sudden very affordable.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:12 PM
  #32
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Avs don't have the pieces anymore. Stastny makes little sense for the Coyotes, financially.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:23 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Avs don't have the pieces anymore. Stastny makes little sense for the Coyotes, financially.
Not unless they were willing to keep a certain amount of his salary. Keeping 2M of Stastny's salary would make him a hell of a lot more valuable. We won't be up against the cap for another season or two so it wouldn't be an issue for us.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #34
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Avs don't have the pieces anymore. Stastny makes little sense for the Coyotes, financially.
Fair enough.

I had thought it was about the allocation of the funds. Since you'll be paying OEL considerably more next year, you'd want to relocate Yandle's share to your forward core. But, there's not shame in keeping the money in defense if you've got the talent like you do.

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Old
03-06-2013, 06:47 PM
  #35
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How about Avs keep some salary and Phoenix gets Stastny for 4M plus a pick and a prospect?

Stastny @ 4M, 2nd rd pick, Gaunce.

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post

I had thought it was about the allocation of the funds. Since you'll be paying OEL considerably more next year, you'd want to relocate Yandle's share to your forward core. But, there's not shame in keeping the money in defense if you've got the talent like you do.
Stastny's contract is toxic to a cap floor team. You're paying 6.6 mil for what seems like a 50 point center. He is actually slightly older than Yandle, makes over a million more, isn't signed past the next season, and doesn't offer a significant increase in production vs Yandle. Why would the Coyotes do such a thing? The Avs would have to add. Before the offersheet, ROR objectively had way more value than Stastny.

To be honest, this is all kind of a moot point as rt pointed out. The Coyotes will either have an owner, and thus money less of an issue, or they will be gone. Moving means trading away salary like Morris and Doan. It's depressing but that's how it is, right now. The bill is coming due for OEL, Boedker and Smith, so there's no way the Coyotes come out the other side of this offseason looking similar to what they have now. There's a good chance they have a new name and colors too.

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:20 PM
  #37
Crisp Breakout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Stastny's contract is toxic to a cap floor team. You're paying 6.6 mil for what seems like a 50 point center. He is actually slightly older than Yandle, makes over a million more, isn't signed past the next season, and doesn't offer a significant increase in production vs Yandle. Why would the Coyotes do such a thing? The Avs would have to add. Before the offersheet, ROR objectively had way more value than Stastny.

To be honest, this is all kind of a moot point as rt pointed out. The Coyotes will either have an owner, and thus money less of an issue, or they will be gone. Moving means trading away salary like Morris and Doan. It's depressing but that's how it is, right now. The bill is coming due for OEL, Boedker and Smith, so there's no way the Coyotes come out the other side of this offseason looking similar to what they have now. There's a good chance they have a new name and colors too.
Just to be clear, I anticipated the question you were going to ask and it's in the post you quoted.

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Old
03-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Just to be clear, I anticipated the question you were going to ask and it's in the post you quoted.
Still has nothing to do with positional salary allocation. We spent about 51m in actual dollars on player salaries last season. We are set to pay about the same this season. I guess we know what our budget is, right? League probably caps us at 51m. OEL will probably cost at least three million more next season than he has the previous two. Smith at least 1.5m and at least the same for Boedker. That's six million in straight raises. If we need to stay under 51m, that means we need to trade Yandle for an ELC. Stastny is about the furthest thing from that.

Grigorenko, Baertschi, Johansen, RNH, Huberdeau, Granlund, Galchenyuk, Zibanejad, B. Schenn, Couturier, Tarasenko, etc. is what we'd be trying for. Not guys older and more expensive than Yandle himself.


Last edited by rt: 03-06-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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Old
03-06-2013, 10:18 PM
  #39
dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Hahahaha, ahhh no. Someone is overvaluing Yandle/Undervaluing Stastny a lot.
Lol over-valuing? Yandle is a proven top pairing defenseman, what more do you want?

Stastny has regressed BIG TIME, Elliott is a POTENTIAL top four defenseman but definitely not top pairing material and there are serious question marks about his defensive game. One of those defenseman I hope will go because they're all awful especially in the roles they play, and Sgarbossa is a good prospect but he's not Sidney Crosby or anything

I just don't get why Avs fans are always clamouring for a top pairing defenseman yet when there's a possible trade proposal they shoot it down saying "LOL no way man horrible for us", well what do you wanna wait for Duncan Siemens to POTENTIALLY turn into a top pairing guy? You wanna draft Seth Jones? He's a right handed shot though so that does absolutely nothing to solidify our top pair, he'd just play behind Johnson on the 2nd pair. You wanna find one in free agency? Have fun doing that, it won't work

I want a premium top pair defenseman and yes I am prepared to over-pay for one because the last time we had one of those was back when Rob Blake was still playing here, over half a decade. We don't need Stastny if O'Reilly shows he can be a capable 2C

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Old
03-06-2013, 10:44 PM
  #40
Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Lol over-valuing? Yandle is a proven top pairing defenseman, what more do you want?

Stastny has regressed BIG TIME, Elliott is a POTENTIAL top four defenseman but definitely not top pairing material and there are serious question marks about his defensive game. One of those defenseman I hope will go because they're all awful especially in the roles they play, and Sgarbossa is a good prospect but he's not Sidney Crosby or anything

I just don't get why Avs fans are always clamouring for a top pairing defenseman yet when there's a possible trade proposal they shoot it down saying "LOL no way man horrible for us", well what do you wanna wait for Duncan Siemens to POTENTIALLY turn into a top pairing guy? You wanna draft Seth Jones? He's a right handed shot though so that does absolutely nothing to solidify our top pair, he'd just play behind Johnson on the 2nd pair. You wanna find one in free agency? Have fun doing that, it won't work

I want a premium top pair defenseman and yes I am prepared to over-pay for one because the last time we had one of those was back when Rob Blake was still playing here, over half a decade. We don't need Stastny if O'Reilly shows he can be a capable 2C
Proven top pairing d-men tend to play against opposing top lines. Yandle faces the 2nd weakest competition of all Yotes d-men.

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Old
03-07-2013, 04:49 PM
  #41
dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Proven top pairing d-men tend to play against opposing top lines. Yandle faces the 2nd weakest competition of all Yotes d-men.
What site did you find these stats?

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Old
03-07-2013, 05:30 PM
  #42
AslanRH
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Proven top pairing d-men tend to play against opposing top lines. Yandle faces the 2nd weakest competition of all Yotes d-men.
And if you read the Yotes board, his "defense" is often questioned.


Last edited by AslanRH: 03-07-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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Old
03-07-2013, 07:45 PM
  #43
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I'd take

Yandle

for

Stastny
2/3rd

Would suck to lose him though.

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Old
03-07-2013, 08:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Vipassana View Post
I'd take

Yandle

for

Stastny
2/3rd

Would suck to lose him though.
Glad you aren't GM. That's brutal.

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Old
03-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #45
BrickAHL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipassana View Post
I'd take

Yandle

for

Stastny
2/3rd

Would suck to lose him though.
Really? That is an easy yes from the Avs.

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Vipassana View Post
I'd take

Yandle

for

Stastny
2/3rd

Would suck to lose him though.
I'd need salary retained with that, and wouldn't trade for less than a 2nd depending on how much money Colorado kept. Ideally I'd want staz, a 1st and $1.1m of his salary each season kept.

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Old
03-07-2013, 11:47 PM
  #47
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I'd need salary retained with that, and wouldn't trade for less than a 2nd depending on how much money Colorado kept. Ideally I'd want staz, a 1st and $1.1m of his salary each season kept.
No way were giving a 1st, maybe we eat 2.6 and add a 3rd

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Old
03-08-2013, 12:14 AM
  #48
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No way were giving a 1st, maybe we eat 2.6 and add a 3rd
Make it a 2nd and a 4th and I'll do it.

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