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Old
03-06-2013, 05:55 PM
  #26
JB Maple Leafs
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Bozak is not worth a first, he would need to be good defensively to even be effective on our team. A #3 Centre who cant play defense? No thanks

he's worth way more to the leafs than the canucks
Ya and Hodgson is worth way more to Buffalo than Kassian was. Great trade!
Vancouver would love to have Bozak and everybody knows it. The kid rocks it on defense and would be an ideal 3C for any team. Watch a couple games.

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03-06-2013, 06:01 PM
  #27
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Bozak isn't even worth Schroeder on his own.

One's a 26 year old third line center playing a role beyond his abilities. Another's a 22 year old rookie already earning his stripes as a top-9 forward with plenty of potential to grow into a top-six role.

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03-06-2013, 06:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Bozak is not worth a first, he would need to be good defensively to even be effective on our team. A #3 Centre who cant play defense? No thanks

he's worth way more to the leafs than the canucks
Pretty easy to tell that you've never seen him play.

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03-06-2013, 06:10 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
Bozak isn't even worth Schroeder on his own.

One's a 26 year old third line center playing a role beyond his abilities. Another's a 22 year old rookie already earning his stripes as a top-9 forward with plenty of potential to grow into a top-six role.
Lmao. That's a nice way to spin it. Here's my try.

Ones a 26 year young centre who has great chemistry with the leafs top winger, who's also one of the best Faceoff men in the league, and also brings a great defensive game. Another is 22 year old who is only 4 years younger than Bozak, and yet only recently got promoted to the nhl because of injuries, and only has 5 points in 20GP all while being hand fed second line minutes

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03-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #30
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Scheieder's got great potential and has team control for a bit still. But as players this year Bozak is better offensively and all around then Schroeder. Bozak would fill a huge need Manny's eye injury left. With Weiss on the shelf he should probably be Vancouver's #1 trade target at the deadline. If they could resign him, a 1st would be a great deal for Vancouver.

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03-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Maple Leafs View Post
Ya and Hodgson is worth way more to Buffalo than Kassian was. Great trade!
Vancouver would love to have Bozak and everybody knows it. The kid rocks it on defense and would be an ideal 3C for any team. Watch a couple games.
Kassian is worth more to Vancouver thus why they made the trade. The irony in your post is hilarious, you tell other people to "watch games" Yet you probably haven't seen a Canucks game all year. Kassian adds an element to the Canucks that Hodgson never has and never will. Anyway minimal interest in Bozak, not nearly enough to move Schroeder for him though.

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03-06-2013, 06:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Scheieder's got great potential and has team control for a bit still. But as players this year Bozak is better offensively and all around then Schroeder. Bozak would fill a huge need Manny's eye injury left. With Weiss on the shelf he should probably be Vancouver's #1 trade target at the deadline. If they could resign him, a 1st would be a great deal for Vancouver.
You couldn't be more wrong. Schroeder is a hell of a defensive player firstly, I'd like to try him either centering or a on the wing with Ryan Kesler. Vancouver isn't moving a first for Bozak, GMMG is really high on this draft, he rarely trades more than a 3 rd for a rental, actually he's never traded more than a 3 rd on a rental. Vancouver likely targets a buy low kinda player a la Higgins and Lapierre in 2011, Bozak's stats and value gets inflated while playing with an elite winger in Kessel. Bozak's production would drop playing on Vancouver's 3 rd and not seeing any power play time.

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03-06-2013, 06:27 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. Schroeder is a hell of a defensive player firstly, I'd like to try him either centering or a on the wing with Ryan Kesler. Vancouver isn't moving a first for Bozak, GMMG is really high on this draft, he rarely trades more than a 3 rd for a rental, actually he's never traded more than a 3 rd on a rental. Vancouver likely targets a buy low kinda player a la Higgins and Lapierre in 2011, Bozak's stats and value gets inflated while playing with an elite winger in Kessel. Bozak's production would drop playing on Vancouver's 3 rd and not seeing any power play time.
I'm a fan I'ml aware of Gillis's history. Bozak's stats are inflated with Kessel yes, but his value isn't. Not questioning Schroeder's effort defensively, but he's no Dave Bolland yet. IMO it's gonna be same old story if Vancouver runs into Chicago without a high end third line Center that can handle the tough matchups. Schroeder's not there yet.

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03-06-2013, 06:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
I'm a fan I'ml aware of Gillis's history. Bozak's stats are inflated with Kessel yes, but his value isn't. Not questioning Schroeder's effort defensively, but he's no Dave Bolland yet. IMO it's gonna be same old story if Vancouver runs into Chicago without a high end third line Center that can handle the tough matchups. Schroeder's not there yet.
Then you'd know Gillis isn't going to move a first for a rental, he never has and probably never will unless the rental is a guy named Corey Perry. I'd rather acquire Goc from Florida lights out defensive forward, similar to Manny pre eye injury one of if not the most underrated player in the league.

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03-06-2013, 06:42 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Lmao. That's a nice way to spin it. Here's my try.

Ones a 26 year young centre who has great chemistry with the leafs top winger, who's also one of the best Faceoff men in the league, and also brings a great defensive game. Another is 22 year old who is only 4 years younger than Bozak, and yet only recently got promoted to the nhl because of injuries, and only has 5 points in 20GP all while being hand fed second line minutes
where was Bozak 4 years ago?

anyway you spin it, Gillis has made it clear that he's not the type of GM that trades assets like Schroeder for assets like Bozak. Every rental player he's traded for, he's given up mid-round picks. He's also made it clear that he's not interested in dealing top prospects or 1st rounders for rentals. And again, anyway you spin it, Bozak is a rental player, while Schroeder is a former 1st rounder, who's improved his all-around game and has gained the trust of a coach who's notorious for not trusting rookies until they prove they are defensively capable of playing in his system.

Anyone who thinks that Gillis is about to trade Schroeder for a rental is simply out to lunch. And we're not even talking about a top end rental here - a rental to fill the 3rd line center spot? In the last 2 seasons Gillis has traded 3rd or 4th round picks for rentals to fill the 3rd line spot (Lapierre, Higgins, Pahlsson). Why is he going to deal one of their top prospects for one now?

Bozak to Vancouver makes no sense. His value to the Leafs is considerably higher because he's playing on their top unit, while his value to the Canucks would be a rental player to fill a 3rd line center spot.

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03-06-2013, 06:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Kassian is worth more to Vancouver thus why they made the trade. The irony in your post is hilarious, you tell other people to "watch games" Yet you probably haven't seen a Canucks game all year. Kassian adds an element to the Canucks that Hodgson never has and never will. Anyway minimal interest in Bozak, not nearly enough to move Schroeder for him though.
Gillis would want a do-over on that trade but keep telling yourself it was worth it if it makes you feel better.
I hate to break it to you but Hodgson is way better than Kassian every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Teams are constantly searching for Centres with Hodgson's potential.....In fact I believe Vancouver is one of those teams looking for one now? But I may be wrong since I don't watch any games. You can't have Bozak because Nonis won't do Gillis any favours.

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03-06-2013, 06:54 PM
  #37
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Well at least some fans are coming back to life a bit.

Not too long ago Bozak was the center piece for Luongo. Now he can't even fetch Schroeder.

Bozak is an upgrade on Schroeder but the cost is too high and the upgrade too minimal. Schroeder is having a very impressive debut with the Canucks. Why would the Canucks deal a player with this promise for an upcoming UFA?

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03-06-2013, 06:56 PM
  #38
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Well this started well...

I wouldn't mind having Bozak,
But not for over 3.5 and not for anything significant.

Connauton + 3rd is the most id do, I know this is under his value, but Canucks don't need a guy like bozak that badly. If it was Connauton and 2nd I'd start saying no deal.

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03-06-2013, 07:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Well at least some fans are coming back to life a bit.

Not too long ago Bozak was the center piece for Luongo. Now he can't even fetch Schroeder.

Bozak is an upgrade on Schroeder but the cost is too high and the upgrade too minimal. Schroeder is having a very impressive debut with the Canucks. Why would the Canucks deal a player with this promise for an upcoming UFA?
I think the issue is that the Canucks coaching staff want someone strong on faceoffs with a good defensive acumen for their third line.

I've watched a fair bit of Schroeder this season. He's definitely not a bad player but clearly he's not what they want in a 3rd line center.

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03-06-2013, 07:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by JB Maple Leafs View Post
Gillis would want a do-over on that trade but keep telling yourself it was worth it if it makes you feel better.
I hate to break it to you but Hodgson is way better than Kassian every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Teams are constantly searching for Centres with Hodgson's potential.....In fact I believe Vancouver is one of those teams looking for one now? But I may be wrong since I don't watch any games. You can't have Bozak because Nonis won't do Gillis any favours.
Hodgson is a #1 center for one of the worst NHL teams points wise.
Kassian is on the third line of one of the middle/top NHL teams.

Yes, Hodgson is bound to score more points given the situation, yes he is outplaying Kassian ATM, but how was Kassian doing before burrows got hot on the first line,

And no we had Hodgson, and he was unwilling to play 3rd line duty. So no he isn't the type of center we r looking for.

Hodgson has been amazing with buffalo and all the best, but when you have Henrik and Kesler ahead of you depth wise it's hard to crack the top 6 offensive minutes. 2 cents.

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03-06-2013, 07:13 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
Hodgson is a #1 center for one of the worst NHL teams points wise.
Kassian is on the third line of one of the middle/top NHL teams.

Yes, Hodgson is bound to score more points given the situation, yes he is outplaying Kassian ATM, but how was Kassian doing before burrows got hot on the first line,

And no we had Hodgson, and he was unwilling to play 3rd line duty. So no he isn't the type of center we r looking for.

Hodgson has been amazing with buffalo and all the best, but when you have Henrik and Kesler ahead of you depth wise it's hard to crack the top 6 offensive minutes. 2 cents.
I guess all I'm saying is that you could have done better than Kassian for Hodgson when a Centre with his potential is a truly valuable asset. I just took issue with buddy bashin on Bozak with an unrealistic scouting report on his defensive ability. Besides, a 22 year old Hodgson doesn't have the right to dictate he doesn't want to play 3C...the organization dictates that. Kadri is playing 3C for us this year and leads our team in points. I think Vancouver handled the Hodgson situation wrong and never should have dealt him. I do like Kassian's toughness though if he can put together the complete package. Just my opinion though.

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03-06-2013, 07:21 PM
  #42
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Why not?

Bozak is better in a lot of aspects of the game and the reason that the Canucks are looking for depth at centre is because they don't trust Schroeder going forward this season.
Do you realize Schroeder is a 21 year old rookie?

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03-06-2013, 07:22 PM
  #43
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The most I would give up is a 4th for Bozak from the Canucks.

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03-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Maple Leafs View Post
I guess all I'm saying is that you could have done better than Kassian for Hodgson when a Centre with his potential is a truly valuable asset. I just took issue with buddy bashin on Bozak with an unrealistic scouting report on his defensive ability. Besides, a 22 year old Hodgson doesn't have the right to dictate he doesn't want to play 3C...the organization dictates that. Kadri is playing 3C for us this year and leads our team in points. I think Vancouver handled the Hodgson situation wrong and never should have dealt him. I do like Kassian's toughness though if he can put together the complete package. Just my opinion though.
I don''t know where you've been but Hodgson asked for a trade. He was pissed of at his lack of ice time, and Hodgson's dad even called GMGM demanding more ice time. Hodgson was a poor skater and horrendous in his own zone. Didn't really fit as the ideal 3 rd line centre. Kassian was one of the 5 players Gillis targeted for Hodgson. As a Canucks fans I don't do that trade again, Kassian adds something we don't have while Hodgson would be stuck behind Kesler and Sedin. Hodgson has a terrible attitude, never want a kid like that on my team.

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03-06-2013, 07:30 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Lmao. That's a nice way to spin it. Here's my try.

Ones a 26 year young centre who has great chemistry with the leafs top winger, who's also one of the best Faceoff men in the league, and also brings a great defensive game. Another is 22 year old who is only 4 years younger than Bozak, and yet only recently got promoted to the nhl because of injuries, and only has 5 points in 20GP all while being hand fed second line minutes
There is a big difference between being 22 years old and in your first NHL season and being 26...

You know literally nothing about Schroeder. He's been playing on the 3rd or 4th lines all season with players such as Hansen, Weise and Sestito. BTW when Kesler was healthy, Schroeder was still on the roster, so that bs you mentioned about injuries is not true.

Schroeder has earned the trust of our coach which is not an easy thing to do since he despises young players. 5 points in 20 games is not that bad considereing he plays with 3rd/4th liners and only gets 13 mins of icetime per game.

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03-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #46
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BTW, that is an absolutely terrible proposal by the op, I would maybe give up Connauton alone for bozak.

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03-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Why not?

Bozak is better in a lot of aspects of the game and the reason that the Canucks are looking for depth at centre is because they don't trust Schroeder going forward this season.
Actually we do. He has shown solid defensive play more than anything, if the price is a 1st for Bozak which no GM in there right mind would ever consider doing, then I am more than comfortable having JS in the 3C hole going into the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Lmao. That's a nice way to spin it. Here's my try.

Ones a 26 year young centre who has great chemistry with the leafs top winger, who's also one of the best Faceoff men in the league, and also brings a great defensive game. Another is 22 year old who is only 4 years younger than Bozak, and yet only recently got promoted to the nhl because of injuries, and only has 5 points in 20GP all while being hand fed second line minutes
Lmao, funny how you said we have to watch some games, yet this post more than anything shows you have no idea what you are talking about in regards to the Canucks.

Bozak is a 26 year old two-way center, who has never had production that would indicate him being a top 6 center, and he has leeched off Kessel's ability to a certain extent, it is great he has chemistry with Toronto's top winger, but unless Kessel is apart of the deal, that point holds no value in trade talks. His wingers here are Hansen and Raymond or Higgins.

Schroeder is a 22 year old rookie who is playing on the 4th line. He has never had 2nd line minutes handfed to him, he was on the 3rd line before, and he isn't here just because of injuries, or we would have went with Ebbett. Our MGMT said he earned a call-up last year, we were just too deep with centers, then this year it was an added bonus Kesler was out, just gave him more opportunity, we still lacked a center either way.

He has been great defensively and we know what he can bring offensively, has been much better than point indicate. And he is 22 and is still developing. Wouldn't trade him for UFA Bozak one for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Maple Leafs View Post
Gillis would want a do-over on that trade but keep telling yourself it was worth it if it makes you feel better.
I hate to break it to you but Hodgson is way better than Kassian every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Teams are constantly searching for Centres with Hodgson's potential.....In fact I believe Vancouver is one of those teams looking for one now? But I may be wrong since I don't watch any games. You can't have Bozak because Nonis won't do Gillis any favours.
Actually teams are consistently searching for PWF's that bring the complete package Kassian brings. Hodgson is older and more developed than Zack, plus offensive players generally develop far sooner than PWF's anyways. Really no surprise Cody is the better player.

And yes we are looking for a center, a Two-way/defensive center. We aren't giving you a 1st for Bozak, cause no one would and we aren't doing you any favors either.

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03-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #48
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Do you watch every leaf game? In what assessment was it that you came to the conclusion his not having the greatest year when he has become elite face off guy (3rd in NHL) and having as good year as well.

You're right though, only juggernauts like Gaustad are worth a 1st He will MOST definitely fetch a 1st if he were to be traded (22+ 1st)
Name 1 team that would give a 1st round pick in one the deepest drafts in the last 5 years for bozak.

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03-06-2013, 07:40 PM
  #49
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The deal we would be willing to do is probably similar to what we gave up to get Chris Higgins, who IMO is a better player than Bozak.

I would do 3rd + Connaution at the very most. Not even too keen on that.

I would counter with 3rd + Rodin/Sauve.

But that deal is terrible, Schroeder > Bozak in terms of Value at this point alone.

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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
There is a big difference between being 22 years old and in your first NHL season and being 26...

You know literally nothing about Schroeder. He's been playing on the 3rd or 4th lines all season with players such as Hansen, Weise and Sestito. BTW when Kesler was healthy, Schroeder was still on the roster, so that bs you mentioned about injuries is not true.

Schroeder has earned the trust of our coach which is not an easy thing to do since he despises young players. 5 points in 20 games is not that bad considereing he plays with 3rd/4th liners and only gets 13 mins of icetime per game.
Less than that now actually.

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03-06-2013, 07:43 PM
  #50
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Wait a minute...Didn't Mike Brown fetch a third or fourth rounder from Edmonton? Yeah.. makes perfect sense that a 40-50 point guy who plays good defensively and wins faceoffs more often than not should fetch around the same return. :

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