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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 3/11) *Part II*

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03-06-2013, 10:58 AM
  #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It ended yesterday.
Thanks.... I'm assuming both Fasth & Lindberg's teams will play in the post-season?

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03-06-2013, 01:04 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
Agreed, I like the way most of our picks have gone, but it doesn't seem like we ever shoot for the moon with our picks.
wtf was Jessiman; I really think that pick has reshaped the way NYR now draft. No more boom or bust picks in 1st round; take the safest BPA than shoot the other 6 picks

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03-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Thanks.... I'm assuming both Fasth & Lindberg's teams will play in the post-season?
Yeah, Lindberg's Skelleftea is a juggernaut. They were 34-13-8 this season. Won the regular season title. HV71 finished in a three-way tie for second, though with tiebreakers they are the fourth seed. Both kids are fortunate to be developing on very good teams. And each of them play a big part in their respective teams' success.

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03-06-2013, 01:24 PM
  #854
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An interesting thing is that Fasth has been playing center for the past 5 games.

He was 30% on the dot in his first game, but over or at 50% in the others.

No goals, two assists and -1 in these 5 games. 2nd/3rd line.

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03-06-2013, 02:07 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
wtf was Jessiman; I really think that pick has reshaped the way NYR now draft. No more boom or bust picks in 1st round; take the safest BPA than shoot the other 6 picks
McIlrath was safe?

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03-06-2013, 02:10 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
An interesting thing is that Fasth has been playing center for the past 5 games.

He was 30% on the dot in his first game, but over or at 50% in the others.

No goals, two assists and -1 in these 5 games. 2nd/3rd line.
Now we know who is taking the draw if Lindberg is tossed.

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03-06-2013, 02:13 PM
  #857
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
wtf was Jessiman; I really think that pick has reshaped the way NYR now draft. No more boom or bust picks in 1st round; take the safest BPA than shoot the other 6 picks
I don't think Jessiman was high risk, he was picked where he was expected.
Your point is well taken though, there is a tendency to ignore the risk part in "high risk high reward".

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03-06-2013, 02:16 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
An interesting thing is that Fasth has been playing center for the past 5 games.

He was 30% on the dot in his first game, but over or at 50% in the others.

No goals, two assists and -1 in these 5 games. 2nd/3rd line.
Sounds like he should stick to wing, no?

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Old
03-06-2013, 03:45 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
McIlrath was safe?

Safe means even at his worst, he is still a player. At worst, he will be a faster version of Bickel, which woukd make him a good #6 guy. People will jump all over this, saying you cant spend a #10 on a faste Bickel, but I am talking about the worst case scenario. The fact that even at his worst, he is still an NHLer makes him safe.

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03-06-2013, 03:51 PM
  #860
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Safe means even at his worst, he is still a player. At worst, he will be a faster version of Bickel, which woukd make him a good #6 guy. People will jump all over this, saying you cant spend a #10 on a faste Bickel, but I am talking about the worst case scenario. The fact that even at his worst, he is still an NHLer makes him safe.
Is it really worth taking someone whose downside is a #6 D-man but has limited upside over a guy whose downside is career AHLer or a guy that would play in the KHL but has a 1st line ceiling? I think it's really a lot to give up a guy with 1st line potential because his downside is slightly lower than the guy with the limited upside. How far away is #6 D-man from AHLer anyway? You can pick up a #6 D-man from waivers or draft him in a later round.

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03-06-2013, 04:02 PM
  #861
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I think where the organization has been since the lockout, we "needed" safe.

I say needed because I think it's safe to say Slats didn't want to go full on rebuild. So it made perfect sense to grab elite talent through FA, one of the advantages of having Dolan as our owner, and then complement them with our "safer" draft picks.

I have no problem with the way we've been drafting. We're all deathly afraid for the health of our homegrown number one d-man right now. We all have already come to terms with the fact one of our other great homegrown d-men probably had his career ended because of concussions. If our homegrown goalie is injured our season is over. Not to mention three homegrown guys, one of them our captain, picking up the slack through a Richie and Gabby slump, and two of them are still under 22 years old!

I'd love to grab THE NYR homegrown stud. Cherepanov was that guy. But i'm more than content with the Marc Staal's and Ryan Callahan's we have. Some teams who've been perennially in the cellar going for the huge talent wish they had a roster like ours.

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03-06-2013, 04:58 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I've been around here a long time, you gotta pick and chose who you listen to
And whoever I chose will be the choosen one

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03-06-2013, 06:39 PM
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Safe means even at his worst, he is still a player. At worst, he will be a faster version of Bickel, which woukd make him a good #6 guy. People will jump all over this, saying you cant spend a #10 on a faste Bickel, but I am talking about the worst case scenario. The fact that even at his worst, he is still an NHLer makes him safe.
Like clockwork.

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03-06-2013, 07:04 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Is it really worth taking someone whose downside is a #6 D-man but has limited upside over a guy whose downside is career AHLer or a guy that would play in the KHL but has a 1st line ceiling? I think it's really a lot to give up a guy with 1st line potential because his downside is slightly lower than the guy with the limited upside. How far away is #6 D-man from AHLer anyway? You can pick up a #6 D-man from waivers or draft him in a later round.

Once again, every draft I call for a high-risk, high-return draftees, and every draft everyone disagrees with me. But I actually liked the McIlrath pick. We needed just that. I am not sure how limited his potential is. If both McIlrath and Miller reach their potential, Mcilrath is the better player. Beukeboom>Nemchinov.

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03-06-2013, 07:10 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Once again, every draft I call for a high-risk, high-return draftees, and every draft everyone disagrees with me. But I actually liked the McIlrath pick. We needed just that. I am not sure how limited his potential is. If both McIlrath and Miller reach their potential, Mcilrath is the better player. Beukeboom>Nemchinov.
All right, I'm young, but not that young (26). Still I didn't watch the Rangers when Beuk was playing. I know he was tough and could fight. I know Rangers fans love him, but I think they love everyone on that team. So how good was he? Was he good on defense or just hit and fought? A lot of fans like players just because they're tough. A lot of Rangers fans on facebook were upset about the Rupp trade.

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03-06-2013, 07:46 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
All right, I'm young, but not that young (26). Still I didn't watch the Rangers when Beuk was playing. I know he was tough and could fight. I know Rangers fans love him, but I think they love everyone on that team. So how good was he? Was he good on defense or just hit and fought? A lot of fans like players just because they're tough. A lot of Rangers fans on facebook were upset about the Rupp trade.
He was tough and cleared the crease but mostly importantly Leech trusted him enough defensively to lead the rush/pinch in when he saw an opportunity.

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03-06-2013, 08:32 PM
  #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Once again, every draft I call for a high-risk, high-return draftees, and every draft everyone disagrees with me. But I actually liked the McIlrath pick. We needed just that. I am not sure how limited his potential is. If both McIlrath and Miller reach their potential, Mcilrath is the better player. Beukeboom>Nemchinov.
I see the Beuk comparison, not sure I see the Sarge comparison. I'd argue that top upside for McI is Pronger and top upside for Miller is Mike Richards - although the point about relative value still stands. Having said that, I'd also argue that odds are much higher of Miller reaching his top potential than McIlrath.

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03-06-2013, 09:30 PM
  #868
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Michael St. Croix with 4 points tonight (3+1) and still 8 mins to go - Oil Kings up 6-3. Thats 13 points in the last four games for him.

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03-06-2013, 09:41 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by Piodale View Post
Michael St. Croix with 4 points tonight (3+1) and still 8 mins to go - Oil Kings up 6-3. Thats 13 points in the last four games for him.
Can someone put this in perspective? I can't get excited about great games in Juniors. Don't Juniors have really high scoring? How good is his run really?

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03-06-2013, 09:42 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Piodale View Post
Michael St. Croix with 4 points tonight (3+1) and still 8 mins to go - Oil Kings up 6-3. Thats 13 points in the last four games for him.
But they were playing Regina...

Not related, but Cody Sylvester had 7 pts (1g 6a) against the Blade yesterday. lol.

Nicholls had 2 pts, McColgan scoreless -3.

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03-06-2013, 09:44 PM
  #871
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MSC's stats need to be changed. Goals/Assists/Points don't add up.

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03-06-2013, 11:41 PM
  #872
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MSC was named CHL player of the week. Kid is going to surprise some people in a couple years.
http://m.chl.ca/article/oil-kings-st...he-week/139853

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03-07-2013, 12:54 AM
  #873
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Can someone put this in perspective? I can't get excited about great games in Juniors. Don't Juniors have really high scoring? How good is his run really?

The WHL is not really a high scoring league. Traditionally, the WHL was the lowest scoring league and the QMJHL the highest scoring league, though the gap significantly narrowed in the last 20 years when the same player would have 25% more points in the Q than in the W.

The best way to gauge players is by looking at where they stand compared to similar players in the same league. He's now #7 in scoring in the WHL with 87 points (tied for 6th in points, but has more games played, so really he's #7).

The next thing I like to look at are his teammates to see if he's only feeding off of their skill (e.g., Bob Maudie getting 101 points by being Iginla's WHL center). This isn't the case here. He is 6 points above his team's #2 guy and 10 points above his team's #3 guy.

Then I look for consistency so that we don't simply have ballooned stats from a few games where he ran up 5-6 points per game against weak opponents. That's not the case. While he's been hot this week, he's scored consistently this whole year. And last year he had 105 points. Even when he's cold, he still scores a point per game. When he's hot, he's just dominant, totally unstoppable by junior defenders.

Finally, I want to see how he performs in the playoffs because that's more NHL style hockey: tighter defense and stronger hitting. Last year, he did not perform particularly well. He wasn't terrible, but he got only a point per game. However, his team was young and inexperienced. This year, they have more age and experience, so it's time for St. Croix to show what he's got.

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03-07-2013, 01:09 AM
  #874
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Who has greater chance of making the team this year? Fast or Lindberg?

Have high hopes for both next year. Think one will make the team this year too.

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03-07-2013, 02:36 AM
  #875
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Yeah, but he was just drafted at the time. Look at Thomas, he failed to impress in the same camp also, and CT is a year older. CT continued to struggle through his first half a season in the AHL. Yet, he's now doing well and has already been called up.
Yeah, I thought about this too. And Hagelin can be mentioned next to Thomas as being pretty avg there.

I especially remember the few reports we got from summer camp before summer camp two seasons ago, were Fasth were reported to be heads and shoulders above Hagelin, Thomas and co.

The thing is, down the road it won't be black or white. Good or not good enough. From Prucha to Dawes to PAP to Zucc to Thomas to MSC, we have seen a whole range of simular role players, who in my opinion, all had potential to really hit it of in the right environment, in addition to maybe developing a little more and so forth, but who more or less were considered for grinding rolls and were topped by others in competition for those grinding rolls.

Look at a kid like Derek Stepan. From day 1 he has been put in a very decent environement. He has not been forced to take much defensive responsibility, and while going on his 3 years he still has very long very bleak stretches when he gets nothing on the board. But he gets PP time regulary and new shots with good players -- and he is moving in the right direction by the day right now. Obviously, if we weren't patient with Stepan's repeated 15-20 game stretches with 2-3 pts, if he didn't get chance after chance after chance, he'd be in Europe or on way to Europe now. And I am not saying that he don't deserve it. He is a darn fine prospect.

But that's what Stepan needed. My question is, what would MSC or Zucc or Thomas need?

What would become of MSC if he got three years in a scoring position in NY, regular PP time, despite not scoring for 20 game periods here and there? Or maybe a more relevant question is, will he get that chance? No of course not, then, could he make it with much less?

The kid got great instincts, sees the ice well, can execute plays extremely fast (like all kids nowadays) and so forth. I've not seen him this season (or did he play in those rookie scrimmages?), but from what I've seen previously I wouldn't at all be suprised if he was slow out the gates in HFD because his engine and pace on the ice needs to improve. Hopefully he can establish himself as a high scoring player in the AHL. Then the question comes if he can make the jump to the NHL. Its a tough road, but the kid atleast has some strong abilities.

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